Honest opinion... customer wants refund on prints

OmahaMama · November 19, 2008

I would like some honest feedback on these images. I am a big girl and I won't cry if you offer constructive criticism.

This customer contacted SmugMug and said the prints were too bright and wanted a refund. I didn't actually see the prints, but I know the quality from SmugMug, and I doubt the prints were drastically different than from what I'm seeing on my color calibrated monitor.

Background info: This session was part of an in-home childcare I went to, and the parents paid a $15 sitting fee and then purchased prints. This boy's mother ordered prints. I got an e-mail from the little boy's grandma, and she said she loved the online images and wanted to purchase a CD. I quoted her a price, she said yes. Then the boy's mother contacted SmugMug and said the prints came out too bright for what they paid ($8 per 4x6) and demaned a refund.

My two cents is that she wants a refund because now she can get a CD and make prints on her own. Yes, the customer is always right, but it seems fishy to me. I just really don't like feeling like I'm being taken for a ride.

So, all that said, are the images too bright, as she claimed?

Any ideas about what I could/should do if grandma's check arrives for the CD?

<img src="http://sararogersphotography.smugmug.com/photos/411493537_Yt4Tq-S.jpg" />

I cropped this in a little closer for her print.

This one was cropped, too.

Thanks,

Sara

____________________________
SaraRogersPhotography.com

Ed911 · November 19, 2008

I cannot see your photos...

$15 for a sitting fee...that is very low. What a small amount of money for the trouble you are having now.

You're probably close to right when you say that the mother realizes that she can use grandma's uncopyrighted CD to print pictures at WM for next to nothing instead of paying you $8 per print.
I can almost here it, "why didn't you tell me that you were going to buy a CD...I just went out and spent all of this money for prints." And the response from GM is, "well can't you send them back?"

I'm only guessing until I see the pictures. But, if GM liked what you put on-line...why doesn't the mother?

TonyL · November 19, 2008

please post a link or embed the photos

Ed911 · November 19, 2008

They look pretty good to me.

TonyL · November 19, 2008

I agree.
maybe a bit too bright with the skin, but thats being picky.
I think the fact that she has a copy of the cd and can get them done at cvs or rite aide for 19 cents is the issue.

OmahaMama · November 19, 2008

Ed911 wrote:

They look pretty good to me.

Thanks, Ed. I was looking for a second opinion to be sure I wasn't biased.

Blurmore · November 19, 2008

My guess is this is an excuse because grandma bought a CD. I doubt she is viewing them on a calibrated monitor 9/10 uncalibrated monitors are too bright rather than too dim. The might be a touch too bright...like a picky touch but otherwise good work.

TonyL · November 19, 2008

Blurmore wrote:

My guess is this is an excuse because grandma bought a CD. I doubt she is viewing them on a calibrated monitor 9/10 uncalibrated monitors are too bright rather than too dim. The might be a touch too bright...like a picky touch but otherwise good work.

100% agree.

OmahaMama · November 19, 2008

cadguru wrote:

I agree.
maybe a bit too bright with the skin, but thats being picky.
I think the fact that she has a copy of the cd and can get them done at cvs or rite aide for 19 cents is the issue.

Thanks for your imput. It did occur to me just now that I set up the lights for a dark skinned child first and didn't adjust for this fair child. I perhaps could have post-proccessed and darkened. Live and learn. I do appreciate the honesty.

She hasn't submitted $$ for the CD yet, and I thought about being a little snarky and adding the cost of her cancelled order to the price of the CD.

This is the side of the photog biz that makes me crazy. :confused

TonyL · November 19, 2008

join the wonderful world of photography sales.
When I shoot an event I charge for a cd of the images. I seem to make more that way because they would rather take the cd and make prints at walmart than by from me.

Melissa49 · November 19, 2008

Good pics! I personally would not have sold a CD to the GM without big bucks. That is like selling negatives or originals. I do include a CD with some of my sittings now that I shoot digital, but I charge out the nose for them. I do not do it for my dance school packages though. And I charge a per package price and no sitting. But I do not use smugmug for that service/merchandise. I have another lab I use for packages and Roes ordering Software, tons of ad-ons, etc. Smugmug is not cost effective enough for my package photography.

However, for a daycare, if they want to 'see' the photos, make a selection and order online that would be a better option for you and they can do it at their convenience. So many moms are into the digital scrap booking and want that CD. If you sell it, put a huge price on it. I am talking big bucks!!! Do not give your work away. And then to deal with that mom wanting a refund. Sure she wanted to take them to walmart or sams and get all the prints she wants at 19 cents apiece.

I have only given one refund for a package, and to this day I know the mom scanned that photo and made all the prints she wanted and asked me to refund her the money for the package back. I was a beautiful photo and a quality print. She insisted it was grainy.

Charge thru the nose for those orginials!

TonyL · November 19, 2008

I was shooting a bike race one day when the sponsor, weichart realtors wanted some photos taken.
I took them.
She then said she would buy them.
Turns out she wanted to buy the cheapest one and scan it for use on her site.
I told her I couldn't prevent her, but that is unethical. I said if you want to purchase the pic for commercial use that would be 125.00 please. She didn't buy that photo at 125.00, so I pulled them from my site so she couldn't buy the photo for 12.00.

People forget time, etc. that is in the cost of these photos

Scott_Quier · November 19, 2008

I looked at all the shots in your gallery. Numbers 5 through 7 are a bit hot. The balance seem to be well exposed.

It appears your client is attempting to pull a fast one on you and/or SmugMug. Maybe suggest to SM that they require the return of the prints before the $$ is refunded - I don't know how SM would/does handle this sort of situation.

I sure hope you quoted a good price for the CD 'cause it looks like you are going to get ripped on the deal.

zoomer · November 19, 2008

Yes the skin on his face does appear to be a little bright.
Really nice photos but the lighting effect is a little extreme. Darken the face a bit and a little less spotlight effect and these would be beauties.
Just my opinion of course.

Qarik · November 19, 2008

I think the babies face is a touch too bright in many of the photos.

JimM · November 19, 2008

If the client only spent $8 for the print, my guess is they feel the face is a bit too hot. On my calibrated monitor, it looks a bit over-exposed. Can you ask to see the print?

Howard Barlow · November 19, 2008

OmahaMama wrote:

My two cents is that she wants a refund because now she can get a CD and make prints on her own. Yes, the customer is always right, but it seems fishy to me.

And that is only one, of many, reasons why to not sell files. Oh, and another thing....NO, the customer is NOT always right. But, that is a treatise all of its own.

System · November 19, 2008

Perhaps the face is a bit washed out. Or perhaps it's the dark BG that makes it look washed out. With that said, I agree with most of the posts here that Mom is going to use Grandmothers CD for prints.

Mitchell · November 19, 2008

The face does look a bit blown on my monitor.

I would suggest you offer to reprint the images for the mother. If these were shot in RAW, you should be able to tone down the exposure on the face to acceptable levels.

If the mom is sincere, she will accept this offer. If she declines, then your notion about her wanting to print from the CD is probably correct.

Scott_Quier · November 19, 2008

OK, I just took the opportunity to view the entire gallery on my freshly calibrated monitor (gee that makes me sound like I think I'm the final authority and that WAS NOT MY INTENT), images 1 - 3 seem alright to me. The balance range from a little hot to quite hot. I think your client is in an easily supported position.

The above suggestion to offer a re-print I think is well founded if you can first get a glance at what was delivered to your client. And the suggested offer of a re-print might be a good litmus test.

Snowgirl · November 19, 2008

Scott_Quier wrote:

OK, I just took the opportunity to view the entire gallery on my freshly calibrated monitor (gee that makes me sound like I think I'm the final authority and that WAS NOT MY INTENT), images 1 - 3 seem alright to me. The balance range from a little hot to quite hot. I think your client is in an easily supported position.

The above suggestion to offer a re-print I think is well founded if you can first get a glance at what was delivered to your client. And the suggested offer of a re-print might be a good litmus test.

I agree. I had a similar situation last summer with a print from a horse show. I captured a competitor's 18-month-old son awestruck watching his Mom ride - so of course Mom wanted the photo. She said the colour in the print was 'off'. I offered to get a re-print for her - which I did locally because it was faster than SmugMug - and prior to doing the print I made sure my monitor was calibrated and the colour adjusted as best I could. Although the local print quality wasn't as good as SmugMug's the customer was ecstatic - with good service and the fixed colour. In the original the colour was very slightly off - the woman's husband has really good eyes!

And, as Scott said, if she doesn't bite on the re-print, you know wht the intention was.

dogwood · November 19, 2008

Snowgirl wrote:

And, as Scott said, if she doesn't bite on the re-print, you know wht the intention was.

Tone down the face and send her a reprint. You should be factoring that into the cost of doing business. Yeah, it's a drag, but it won't be the only time someone isn't happy with the results. But the good news is that the majority of your clients will be happy with the results.

jeffreaux2 · November 19, 2008

I give away small and medium web-sized(low-resolution) downloads. I sell the same sizes on CD for a nominal cost. My pricing for full resolution downloads begins at $300. That price is really a message to my clients that I do not want to sell full res files.

Id offer to replace the prints...no refunds...and the next time she called to schedule a portrait session Id be busy. Very busy.

Karenl39 · November 19, 2008

The color looks way off to me. Did you use a custom white balance when you took these pictures? Did you meter your lights?

I'm sorry, but I would have to agree that the face is way too bright.

I always offer a 100% guarantee because I want to keep customers, not get them angry. I would actually offer a reshoot.

snaptie2002 · November 20, 2008

Karenl39 wrote:

The color looks way off to me. Did you use a custom white balance when you took these pictures? Did you meter your lights?

I'm sorry, but I would have to agree that the face is way too bright.

I always offer a 100% guarantee because I want to keep customers, not get them angry. I would actually offer a reshoot.

Spoken like a true business person. What are we talking about a hundred bucks or so? We can speculate about the customer's motives til the cows come home but the bottom line is.....she wants her money back. Good customer service brings people back and brings referrals in. Squabbling with the customer may save you a little chump change from time to time but in the long run it is bad for business.

Marty

JohnBiggs · November 20, 2008

I'd tell the grandma that the price you quoted for the CD was because prints were already ordered of the same child. (This would have been a consideration to me when I price the CD). Without the order, the CD price would have to chage.

Or just give the lady the refund and give her a nice 'Sorry for the incon.... We strive to be the best....' etc type of thing and hope you make the money back in the future via referals, etc.

In the future, price the CD higher, or stipulate that CDs can only be ordered after a $XXX print order.

mercphoto · November 21, 2008

JohnBiggs wrote:

In the future, price the CD higher, or stipulate that CDs can only be ordered after a $XXX print order.

I think at least part of the problem here is that you offered a new product, the CD, after the prints were sold. If the mother had the option to buy the CD in the first place she might have done that from the beginning and not have bought the prints in the first place.

Good points on the pricing of the CD above. Ask yourself what you really want to sell to people: prints or files. If you really want to sell prints then either refuse selling files OR price them high enough that most people won't bother buying them, and if they do the price is high enough to make you sell what you don't want to sell in the first place.

But if you do not mind selling digital files then come up with a defined price for single files and multiple/session files and advertise that up-front.

I'm going to plug another website for selling stuff though. During the last half of my "career" shooting karts and motocross I started selling through Exposure Manager instead of Smugmug (www.exposuremanager.com). First reason was they offered the ability to create packages, where I could provide a discount if the customer ordered a 4x6 plus an 8x10. Or I could bundle a 4x6 print with a hi-res digital file for a special price. They also allowed custom-designed products. I made an "event CD" as a product of mine, gave it a price, and gave the customer the ability to order a CD-ROM of their pics from the same site they'd order prints from. I think you could leverage both those features to your advantage.

TonyL · November 21, 2008

mercphoto wrote:

I think at least part of the problem here is that you offered a new product, the CD, after the prints were sold. If the mother had the option to buy the CD in the first place she might have done that from the beginning and not have bought the prints in the first place.

Good points on the pricing of the CD above. Ask yourself what you really want to sell to people: prints or files. If you really want to sell prints then either refuse selling files OR price them high enough that most people won't bother buying them, and if they do the price is high enough to make you sell what you don't want to sell in the first place. But if you do not mind selling digital files then come up with a defined price for single files and multiple/session files and advertise that up-front.

I'm going to plug another website for selling stuff though. During the last half of my "career" shooting karts and motocross I started selling through Exposure Manager instead of Smugmug (www.exposuremanager.com). First reason was they offered the ability to create packages, where I could provide a discount if the customer ordered a 4x6 plus an 8x10. Or I could bundle a 4x6 print with a hi-res digital file for a special price. They also allowed custom-designed products. I made an "event CD" as a product of mine, gave it a price, and gave the customer the ability to order a CD-ROM of their pics from the same site they'd order prints from. I think you could leverage both those features to your advantage.

I wish smugmug had this feature, for instance when doing lots of portraits for schools or teams, the ability to offer packages would be great, unless they have this and I am missing something?

Travis · November 21, 2008

cadguru wrote:

I wish smugmug had this feature, for instance when doing lots of portraits for schools or teams, the ability to offer packages would be great, unless they have this and I am missing something?

It is on their wish list...

Ed911 · November 21, 2008

You know it's a funny thing...this website...as well as other photo viewers tend to change the color cast of posted pics from how they look in CS3. I put one of your pictures in Photoshop CS3 and indeed the face did look over exposed...much more than on this forum.

Did you have the your settings on your SmugMug account set to custom color. I would have thought that if you did, then they would have tried to adjust them, realizing that they were over exposed.

I would follow some of the good suggestions from previous posts...give her her money back, or offer to rework the shots, or offer to reshoot them...I would tend to do the latter.

Sorry about the first post...the poses are great...and he's a great subject. Looks like you have everything right...just a little hot.

Scott Crouse · November 24, 2008

Quickly read the thread so if i missed this suggestion I apologize, but I would offer the refund or the reshoot option, but remove the CD. Claim that the CD is not for sale as you had received information that the images were not of a good quality therefore you can not sell it. Offer the reshoot or refund and be done with this and move on. Don't spend time on something your not making money on. If you don't she will probably start bad mouthing you for arguing and that will only hurt business.

Honest opinion... customer wants refund on prints

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