focus confirmation with manual lens fix!!

gtc · May 30, 2006

i am trying to find out whether this will fit onto an m42 to eos adapter-he is charging between 62 to 65 euros including post.

here is the link to FM which shows what it looks like:

ziggy,we are almost in the magical land of focus confirmation!

ziggy53 · May 30, 2006

Greg,

Interestingly, I found this same guy on the Italian EBay.

http://cgi.ebay.it/Canon-EOS-Autofocus-Module-Chip-fuer-MF-Objektive_W0QQitemZ7621215210QQcategoryZ80373QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'm not really very good with Italian, but it looks like he had 15 units for sale, and sold out quickly. I do like the new version in that it's a black circuit board, and some folks said more durable, and it appears to be gold plated contacts.

I sent the person an e-mail asking to be informed the next time he has inventory. I'll let you know if they respond.

Thanks,

ziggy53

gtc · May 30, 2006

email from supplier
hi ziggy

i have received a response,and looking at the distribution list he sent you the same email-i doubt there are any other ziggy 53's out there...you should probably get yours soon.

the boys in the manual focus forum are very excited!

Hi!
Price for a Chip + S&H is 62 EUR if you pay using moneybookers.com with your
credit card or bank account or 65 EUR if you use PayPal (I can not accept
credit card payments through PayPal).
my email is the same for both payment systems:

Ciao
Matvey
P.S. Please do not forget to specify your correct shipping address

Bodley · May 31, 2006

gtc wrote:

i am trying to find out whether this will fit onto an m42 to eos adapter-he is charging between 62 to 65 euros including post.

here is the link to FM which shows what it looks like:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/403688

ziggy,we are almost in the magical land of focus confirmation!

I'm confused (read ignorant)- just what is this and what will it accomplish?

ziggy53 · May 31, 2006

gtc wrote:

hi ziggy

i have received a response,and looking at the distribution list he sent you the same email-i doubt there are any other ziggy 53's out there...you should probably get yours soon.

the boys in the manual focus forum are very excited!

Hi!
Price for a Chip + S&H is 62 EUR if you pay using moneybookers.com with your
credit card or bank account or 65 EUR if you use PayPal (I can not accept
credit card payments through PayPal).
my email is the same for both payment systems:
(e-mail address removed per request from Matvey)
Ciao
Matvey
P.S. Please do not forget to specify your correct shipping address

Greg,

I haven't gotten anything yet. You're the lucky one!

:

ziggy53

ziggy53 · May 31, 2006

Bodley wrote:

I'm confused (read ignorant)- just what is this and what will it accomplish?

Greg and I, and others, like using "old glass" occasionally on our modern digital-SLRs. The reasons for doing this are many and varied, and often have to do with the economics of new vs old. The quality of much of the "old glass" is quite good.

The problem is that we have to use an adapter to mount our old lenses to the camera. The adapter/lens combination is not able to relay any information about the lens, since there is no electrical connection to the camera.

Exposure is no problem, since we can use the on-camera exposure system in either aperture priority or full manual, and the camera will continue to function, almost as though there was a "coupled" lens in manual mode.

The main problem is the focus system. Some cameras allow the autofocus system to "confirm" focus, even with uncoupled lenses, Canons do not. We are left to focus the lens manually using the ground glass in the viewfinder, which is difficult, to say the least.

What this new "chip" allows is the operation of the focus confirmation part of the autofocus system, as though there were a "coupled" lens in manual focus mode. It does this by "faking" the signals of an actual lens, were it attached.

There is still no actual coupling of the lens, but the autofocus is "brought to life" enough to allow the camera to help with focussing.

ziggy53

gtc · May 31, 2006

a little OT-5d adapter plate on its way too
Not that I have a 5d ,nor will I for quite some time yet,so its not an issue for me,but there are now some m42,and other mount, adapter plates coming on line which will allow manual lenses to be fitted on the 5d.

The problem they appear to have overcome is the 5d's large mirror hitting the adapters-so all you 5d owners will soon be able to take advantage of Zeiss,Zeiss-Jena,Contax-Zeiss,Pentax and possibly others such as Leica.

graeme_7799 · June 1, 2006

bloody expensive thing it is. but alas, I MUST GET ONE!!! lol

Jane B. · June 1, 2006

M42 to EOS adapters

gtc wrote:

Not that I have a 5d ,nor will I for quite some time yet,so its not an issue for me,but there are now some m42,and other mount, adapter plates coming on line which will allow manual lenses to be fitted on the 5d.

The problem they appear to have overcome is the 5d's large mirror hitting the adapters-so all you 5d owners will soon be able to take advantage of Zeiss,Zeiss-Jena,Contax-Zeiss,Pentax and possibly others such as Leica.

This puzzles me. I have a M42 to EOS adapter that is a simple plate which was purchased many years ago for the EOS 620 film camera. Being film that camera is, of course, full frame. I had no problems with it. So, why does the 5D need something different?

My budget is such that I am not about to buy a 5D. I am ejoying the fact that it works on the used D60 that I bought late last summer. The lens I use it with are not of the Jena, Contax-Zeiss, quality but I am getting some fun out of them anyway.
Jane B.

gtc · June 1, 2006

hitting the mirror
I think its due to the mirror on the 5d hitting the adapter and/ or the back of the lens.

the 5d mirror is larger than usual-if you get a 5d its worth gently trying out your adapter plate-it may work but others have found out it may not

i understand that not all lenses foul the mirror but others do.

which m42 lenses are you using?

Jane B. · June 2, 2006

M42 lenses

gtc wrote:

I think its due to the mirror on the 5d hitting the adapter and/ or the back of the lens.

the 5d mirror is larger than usual-if you get a 5d its worth gently trying out your adapter plate-it may work but others have found out it may not

i understand that not all lenses foul the mirror but others do.

which m42 lenses are you using?

Pretty much no name compared to what brands are bantied about here. I have:
Vivitar 55mm 2.8 that came with my first film SLR.
Mamiya/Sekor 55mm 1.8 purchased used in the 1970s from a family friend that owned a camera shop (the shop is long since closed and he has died.)
Vivitar 200mm 3.5 from the same source as the Mamiya/Sekor but purchased new also in the 1970's.

My lone EOS lens is the original 28-70 3.5-4.5 from 1988. Purchased at same time as EOS 620 film SLR. Adam T who seems to be very well regarded on dpreview made the comment that those first EOS lens had to be good as they were depending on them to establish the new mount. Found the exact quote "I've NEVER seen a Mk1 , every one I've heard of has been a Mk2 and they're very sharp as is the old 35-105 F3.5-4.5 Pump Zoom.. I suppose that being Pre-L (for EOS) and the only zooms in their focal lengths, they HAD to be !"

Of the M42s the 200 is the one I have used the most. Turned out great for hot air balloons. We have a Balloon Fest every August and when the wind direction is right they often come right over my house; although, the park the Fest in is is just a few blocks away.
Jane

ziggy53 · June 2, 2006

The seller showed up again.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7625872502

It did cost more than I expected, but not too much more.

ziggy53

Jane B. · June 2, 2006

Jane B. wrote:

Pretty much no name compared to what brands are bantied about here. I have:
Vivitar 55mm 2.8 that came with my first film SLR.
Mamiya/Sekor 55mm 1.8 purchased used in the 1970s from a family friend that owned a camera shop (the shop is long since closed and he has died.)
Vivitar 200mm 3.5 from the same source as the Mamiya/Sekor but purchased new also in the 1970's.

My lone EOS lens is the original 28-70 3.5-4.5 from 1988. Purchased at same time as EOS 620 film SLR. Adam T who seems to be very well regarded on dpreview made the comment that those first EOS lens had to be good as they were depending on them to establish the new mount. Found the exact quote "I've NEVER seen a Mk1 , every one I've heard of has been a Mk2 and they're very sharp as is the old 35-105 F3.5-4.5 Pump Zoom.. I suppose that being Pre-L (for EOS) and the only zooms in their focal lengths, they HAD to be !"

Of the M42s the 200 is the one I have used the most. Turned out great for hot air balloons. We have a Balloon Fest every August and when the wind direction is right they often come right over my house; although, the park the Fest in is is just a few blocks away.
Jane

Remembered I could post a pic here without an account with a hosting service after I wrote the above.

I think this is with the 200mm Vivitar mentioned above. I don't know how I could read data for original file to tell. But, if it is, seems worth putting up with manual focus and aperture setting to me.
Jane

ziggy53 · June 2, 2006

Jane,

That looks great to me! Manual everything is how I learned photography.

ziggy53

Danny · June 13, 2006

One more seller showed up here US http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7627282399&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MESE:IT&rd=1
With even better price for shipping, $7 within US…
I will buy...before he did not mark up the price...:):

ziggy53 wrote:

The seller showed up again.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7625872502

It did cost more than I expected, but not too much more.

ziggy53

gtc · June 13, 2006

good
I am interested in your experience with him as a seller and how the chip works out when you get it

Greg

ziggy53 · June 18, 2006

ziggy53 wrote:

The seller showed up again.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7625872502

It did cost more than I expected, but not too much more.

ziggy53

I still haven't heard anything from the seller. My payment was accepted immediately. Should I be getting concerned?

ziggy53

Scott_Quier · June 18, 2006

ziggy53 wrote:

I still haven't heard anything from the seller. My payment was accepted immediately. Should I be getting concerned?

ziggy53

I would send him some PM and see if he responds. If not, then it is probably time to EBay involved. 2 weeks is, I would think, just a little long to wait without hearing anything.

ziggy53 · June 19, 2006

While Scott was responding, I was typing a simple query to the seller via EBay. He responded the same day and gave me the USPS tracking number. I checked the number, via the USPS online tracking system, and found that the PO tried to deliver the package on June 14 and left a notice.

Since I never found a notice in my mail, I called the local PO with the tracking number and delivery information. The person I talked to confirmed that the package was still there. I went to the local PO and retrieved the package this morning.

WooHoo, it's here, it's here.

The package included the chip, carefully packaged, and a single sheet template, with 5 copies of the template printed on the sheet, but no real instructions.

At first, I tried mounting the M42/EOS adapter on the camera, and inserting the chip into position between. I read where another person did this and it worked fairly well for them. I rapidly dismissed this as impractical and potentially damaging to the contact pins on the camera, although I didn't try too many different methods of attack.

I was not too keen on the templates, and I didn't feel that they explained the orientation and placement of the chip on the adapter sufficiently.

I wound up putting the adapter on the camera, without a lens, and marking the position of the pins relative to the adapter using a fine-pont marker. This seemed to give me a much better idea for orienting and mounting the chip correctly. I repeated this operation to guarantee I properly mounted and aligned the adapter.

Using both the template, which got me close, and my markings, which I believe are more definitive, I felt confident to proceed.

After a few anxious moments playing with the super-glue, the deed was done. No turning back now ('cause that sucker was on to stay.)

I mounted the adapter with chip onto the camera, visually confirmed that it "looked" correct, and fired up the camera.

Voila! The camera showed f1.4 with no lens attached, as it should because the chip is sending information to the camera, just as though there was a lens.

I mounted the Vivitar 500mm, f6.3, onto the adapter, and checked for focus confirmation. A little touchy but yes, it works!

I went outside and popped off a few hand-held shots of the utility pole and some fixtures. It's working pretty well.

Samples later.

ziggy53

gtc · June 19, 2006

touchy?
Ziggy

Glad it arrived and thanks for your description of fitting the chip.

A few questions..

What do you mean about it being a little touchy?

Did you mount it on a cameraquest adapter?

Do you get a beep as well as the focus confirm light?

I am getting good results with the KatzEye focussing screen but once Summer returns down here I may get one for my bats in flight shots.

How I was able to get anything in focus before now is a mystery..

Once you have had a chance to give it a real test I would be interested to know how fast the confirmation is when tracking moving subjects.

Greg

Greg

ziggy53 · June 19, 2006

First real tests:

and finally a 100% crop:

Notes:

These are also in a full size and full res gallery:
http://ziggy53.smugmug.com/gallery/1580696

The images could have used some more processing. I blew the exposure, they are overexposed. Don't fret about the blooming in the light areas, they are blown out.

I was hoping for some bird shots, but there were no birds available. I saw this singular person on the river and I saw another person watching from shore. As I approached, I recognized the person on shore who explained the individual on the river was his son taking the jet ski out for his first solo.

The son was just about to leave the river as I was setting up, so the father sent him out again, just for me.

:

I explained I was just testing the system and he said it was no problem sharing the images with others. I decided to blur the watercraft numbers, just in case.

I got just one image that's really sharp, but these jet skis are fast and tough to track, and he didn't follow any course or pattern, so I had my hands full. This is not a good application for manual focussing.

ziggy53

ziggy53 · June 19, 2006

gtc wrote:

Ziggy

Glad it arrived and thanks for your description of fitting the chip.

A few questions..

What do you mean about it being a little touchy?

...

Hi Greg,

It is going to take some getting used to. The camera will occasionally signal focus confirm either before or after prime focus. You need to rock the focus back and forth a bit to get it right. Remember I am testing on an f6.3 lens, so it's not like a faster aperture lens. I think this is acceptable.

gtc wrote:

...

Did you mount it on a cameraquest adapter?

...

It's an Adorama adapter.

gtc wrote:

...

Do you get a beep as well as the focus confirm light?

...

Yes I do, but the beep is enabled by the camera and can be disabled. For these shots, I rarely heard the beep. ('Cause the jet ski is also pretty loud.)

gtc wrote:

...

I am getting good results with the KatzEye focussing screen but once Summer returns down here I may get one for my bats in flight shots.

How I was able to get anything in focus before now is a mystery..

Once you have had a chance to give it a real test I would be interested to know how fast the confirmation is when tracking moving subjects.

Greg

Remember, you only get confirmation with the shutter partially depressed. Sometimes, you have to keep pressing the shutter button to get the confirm to "hit". Again, this a not a fast lens, so I don't expect fast confirmation. Slow focus is common for slower lenses.

I'll be testing with some faster lenses soon to see how they fare.

I would not think this system is appropriate for anything "in flight", but I would love to try it with a Pentax 500mm, f4.5 to see how much improvement in speed of confirmation one could get. I would expect responsiveness to improve. I would also expect a 1D MKII/s to be more responsive as well.

ziggy53

ziggy53 · June 24, 2006

Minor update:

Testing focus confirmation with a 105mm, f2.8, a 135mm, f2.8, and a 50mm, f1.4 shows how valuable this "chip" based solution is. I am very pleased with the speed and accuracy with faster prime lenses.

I just tested the Pentax 50mm, f1.4 wide open and at ISO 100, 4 second exposure, the focus confirmation was very fast and sure on high-contrast edges. I think this will be my favorite application for this solution.

I'll post some examples when I see something interesting.

ziggy53

herion · June 25, 2006

ziggy53 wrote:

Minor update:

Testing focus confirmation with a 105mm, f2.8, a 135mm, f2.8, and a 50mm, f1.4 shows how valuable this "chip" based solution is. I am very pleased with the speed and accuracy with faster prime lenses.

I just tested the Pentax 50mm, f1.4 wide open and at ISO 100, 4 second exposure, the focus confirmation was very fast and sure on high-contrast edges. I think this will be my favorite application for this solution.

I'll post some examples when I see something interesting.

ziggy53

FYI for all - I've purchased the chip from the original manufacturer (Matvey in Germany) and placed it on a Fotodiox-Leica-EOS adapter.

Everything works perfectly - I've ordered two more chips - one for an M42 adapter and another for a Contax-Yashica adapter.

Best way to mount (from my experience)
1. Mount adapter onto camera
2. Slide chip in - make sure it contacts correctly
3. Mark beginning and end of chip with sharp pencil or fine-tip marker
4. White glue it lightly to test properly
5. Once re-tested, pop off chip and use clear two-part epoxy glue to reseat

I'm still debating about getting a Katz-Eye screen too, but since there's a 4-6 week backlog right now, I can wait

:

gtc · June 25, 2006

screen and chip
good to see some more people out there test driving the focus chip for me!

Re :the katzeye-it really comes into its own for macro-i bought pentax screwmount bellows on the weekend -first impressions it would be very difficult to focus without the screen-i doubt af confirm chip would work very well, if at all ,at extreme magnification,as its so dark and the DOF is
razor thin.

The split circle and the microprism ring become an invaluable aid,even just for viewing purposes-the area within the circle remains bright enough to see detail.

good to hear that shorter focal lengths and wider apertures suit it-it seems that normal AF works better at these lengths and apertures also.

methinks the chip could be put to good use with a fast portrait lens.

howabout we name it the EOS Dummy? Why?

because it emulates or dummies an eos lens

because AF shooters think that we are dummies for using manual focus lenses

because it soothes the difficulties of manual focus confirmation much like a babies dummy-the manual eos shooter feels content that his shots will all be in focus.

herion · June 26, 2006

gtc wrote:

good to see some more people out there test driving the focus chip for me!

Re :the katzeye-it really comes into its own for macro-i bought pentax screwmount bellows on the weekend -first impressions it would be very difficult to focus without the screen-i doubt af confirm chip would work very well, if at all ,at extreme magnification,as its so dark and the DOF is
razor thin.

The split circle and the microprism ring become an invaluable aid,even just for viewing purposes-the area within the circle remains bright enough to see detail.

good to hear that shorter focal lengths and wider apertures suit it-it seems that normal AF works better at these lengths and apertures also.

methinks the chip could be put to good use with a fast portrait lens.

howabout we name it the EOS Dummy? Why?

because it emulates or dummies an eos lens

because AF shooters think that we are dummies for using manual focus lenses

because it soothes the difficulties of manual focus confirmation much like a babies dummy-the manual eos shooter feels content that his shots will all be in focus.

Well ... let's try some more creative names.

1) The "Borg" chip - resistance is futile - MF lenses *will* be assimilated!!

2) Since it was built originally in Germany, it could be referred to as a "Dopple-Fokus" chip. Similar to a "doppleganger" which is usually described as a ghostly double of a living person. The chip does "ghost" the functionality of an EF chip in manual mode.

Just my 0.02

Danny · June 30, 2006

gtc wrote:

I am interested in your experience with him as a seller and how the chip works out when you get it

Greg

Seller by himself is very co-operative, answered all my questions straight away , and shipped the very next day after I paid. About the chip, I had some doubts, but was surprised that it really works. Speed depends on lens of course, but still better then manual operation.

herion · July 2, 2006

Just ordered two more chips - one for an M42 mount and another for my Zeiss 28/2.8. You *can* get the focus chip on the Zeiss, provided you are not planning on removing the adapter. I'm not, so this is perfect for me.

Both cases - focus confirmation is nailed. Sharp, sharp pictures!!

lotusjp · June 2, 2012

ziggy53 wrote: »

Greg and I, and others, like using "old glass" occasionally on our modern digital-SLRs. The reasons for doing this are many and varied, and often have to do with the economics of new vs old. The quality of much of the "old glass" is quite good.

The problem is that we have to use an adapter to mount our old lenses to the camera. The adapter/lens combination is not able to relay any information about the lens, since there is no electrical connection to the camera.

Exposure is no problem, since we can use the on-camera exposure system in either aperture priority or full manual, and the camera will continue to function, almost as though there was a "coupled" lens in manual mode.

The main problem is the focus system. Some cameras allow the autofocus system to "confirm" focus, even with uncoupled lenses, Canons do not. We are left to focus the lens manually using the ground glass in the viewfinder, which is difficult, to say the least.

What this new "chip" allows is the operation of the focus confirmation part of the autofocus system, as though there were a "coupled" lens in manual focus mode. It does this by "faking" the signals of an actual lens, were it attached.

There is still no actual coupling of the lens, but the autofocus is "brought to life" enough to allow the camera to help with focussing.

ziggy53

Hello Ziggy,
so this chip does assit in auto focus without auto focus lens being attached??!!

john

ziggy53 · June 2, 2012

lotusjp wrote: »

Hello Ziggy,
so this chip does assit in auto focus without auto focus lens being attached??!!

john

Basically, this chip "fools" the camera into thinking that a lens capable of AF, but set to manual mode, is attached to the body. That allows the AF section of the camera to engage upon half-shutter-depress, and, as you rack the focus of the lens manually, AF confirmation informs you when the AF section senses prime focus.

There is no 'auto focus', only focus confirmation while you manually focus the lens.

Advanced Nikon bodies have something similar in operation when mounting a compatible manual focus lens.

focus confirmation with manual lens fix!!

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