The Proof-delayed Shipping Thread (Tips, Questions)

Andy · July 29, 2006

SmugMug Help - Proof and Retouch

First tip: BE SURE to upload a file with large enough resolution (pixel dimensions) to support the largest size print you wish to sell. Here are our resolution minimums.

Second tip: THE ONLY WAY it works is if you use REPLACE PHOTO when you're ready to replace the original file with your new one. Read the help section carefully

Third tip: For proofs, you can upload your files fairly well smashed. Many of you pros shoot RAW + JPG. That's fine, upload the JPGs. Smash 'em, too. Here's a gallery with some examples from three Canon Cameras, at four different resolutions: http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/1972139

These files were all converted from RAW, at different sizes. Of course, this is all easy to do in batch mode if you do not shoot RAW+JPG. All the photos were saved at Photoshop JPG-7 (Yes, 7).

5D, 12 megapixel file, 1.3mb
5D, 6 megapixel file, 764kb
5D, 3 megapixel file, 440kb
5D, 1.5megapixel file, 312kb

1Ds Mark II, 16 megapixel file, 1.2Mb
1Ds Mark II, 6 megapixel file, 332kb
1Ds Mark II, 3 megapixel file, 540kb
1Ds Mark II, 1.5 megapixel file, 252kb
20D, 8 megapixel file, 1Mb
20D, 6 megapixel file, 828kb
20D, 3 megapixel file, 484kb
20D, 1.5 megapixel file, 348kb

Fourth tip: NOW, with the new ability in your pro sales page, your customers can buy, and crop or not crop as they choose. Upon notification of order, you, go into CP during the proof-delay period, view the order. You can reupload exact same file size and resolution, with color changes. Or, you can also reupload a new photo with much higher resolution if you wish. You must then see the new crop lines on the newly replaced photo, the crop would be off, so you MUST go to "adjust crop" and crop back to taste.

Fifth tip: Here's a sample real-live workflow

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=47687

EDIT, UPDATE: When YOU are logged in, order from proof delay, and the orders go right to print - even if there is proof delay on the gallery. As it should be! :clap

BeachBill · July 30, 2006

It would be really nice if there was an option to hold the order until flagged to ship instead of just the time delay. I see this biting some of us who go on vacations/photo shoots and don't have access to the Internet and/or our originals for an extended number of days...

Andy · July 30, 2006

BeachBill wrote:

It would be really nice if there was an option to hold the order until flagged to ship instead of just the time delay. I see this biting some of us who go on vacations/photo shoots and don't have access to the Internet and/or our originals for an extended number of days...

It would be nice, but customers don't want to wait that long. You can turn off ordering while you are away, or take a laptop and check your email

I prefer the latter.

dogwood · August 1, 2006

a question

Andy wrote:

First tip: BE SURE to upload a file with large enough resolution (pixel dimensions) to support the largest size print you wish to sell.

Hmmm-- I have a dilemna with this new feature.

If I size and optimize for the web (specifically the smugmug galleries-- 72 ppi, 450 pixels tall for verticals) so the photos look the best to viewers yet still small to discourage theft, then people can't order large size photos (even using proof delay). But if I post the large high res files (unretouced but still large enough to print)-- then the photos look weird and pixelated to website visitors.

I realize smugmug has to have the large file in case the pro doesn't upload a replacement (and you'd be stuck giving a refund)-- but I want my cake and want to eat it too!

Is there a way to set the proof delay to allow print orders on any size I specify off a file that is optimized ONLY for web display (72 ppi, 450 pixels tall)? I know I'll have to replace this file before the print order is processed.

That's how I originally thought this feature worked... but testing it out, I'm finding that's not the case.

alixmiles · August 13, 2006

I do not upload any of my files at the full resolution. I run them through i_view 32 before uploading them. So if I missed a deadline...they would get a file that was lower resolution and has a copyright statement right in the middle. Is smugmug requiring a specific size file to be uploaded to be able to use the proof delay?

Maybe I missed this...but is there a way to get an email for what has been ordered and fill the order yourself?

Thanks
Barry

Andy · August 13, 2006

alixmiles wrote:

I do not upload any of my files at the full resolution. I run them through i_view 32 before uploading them. So if I missed a deadline...they would get a file that was lower resolution and has a copyright statement right in the middle. Is smugmug requiring a specific size file to be uploaded to be able to use the proof delay?

Has to be as large as the minimum resolution for the largest size you'll print:
http://blogs.smugmug.com/pros/2006/01/09/new-minimum-print-resolutions/
[/quote]
Maybe I missed this...but is there a way to get an email for what has been ordered and fill the order yourself?[/QUOTE]

No, I'm afraid not, sorry.

photogmomma · August 28, 2006

Cropping?
How would this work:

(Because I'm doing this for friends for cheap, I want to make this easy on myself - hence this mode of working.)

I upload an image that is the highest resolution I can at a ratio of 4x6
They want an 8x10 so that's what they order
They crop their 8x10 how they think is "best", but after talking to me, I suggest something else
I have 3 day proofing turned on.
Can I recrop the image to 8x10, reupload it (replace photo) and will the image be printed how I uploaded last? Or will it crop some strange way because of how they told it to crop?

Just trying to make things confusing! Did it work?

Thanks!

Andy · August 28, 2006

photogmomma wrote:

Or will it crop some strange way because of how they told it to crop?[

Thanks!

Yes, it would crop funny. This wouldn't work. You have to upload the same image, aspect ratio and don't recrop.

photogmomma · August 28, 2006

Andy wrote:

Yes, it would crop funny. This wouldn't work. You have to upload the same image, aspect ratio and don't recrop.

Bummer!

! But that's cool (and the answer I expected).

The proof delay is so awesome that I certainly can't complain!

Techman1 · August 31, 2006

Andy wrote:

Yes, it would crop funny. This wouldn't work. You have to upload the same image, aspect ratio and don't recrop.

Andy (or anyone else that knows the answer:D),

I have a couple of questions relating to this:

(1) Regarding the above, if we have the delayed printing option turned on will we be able to see what the crop request looks like from our customers? This has been a problem with my customers in the past and I always ask them later if they cropped the photo (some have and most do not), but I didn't know unless I asked them.

(2) Is there a way to turn on this delayed printing option for all of my galleries or do I need to go back to each and every one of them to turn it on?

Thanks in advance and I hope things are going well.

Best regards,
Fred

Andy · August 31, 2006

Techman1 wrote:

Andy (or anyone else that knows the answer:D),

I have a couple of questions relating to this:

(1) Regarding the above, if we have the delayed printing option turned on will we be able to see what the crop request looks like from our customers? This has been a problem with my customers in the past and I always ask them later if they cropped the photo (some have and most do not), but I didn't know unless I asked them.

No, we don't have this abilty. I've asked, not sure if it can or will be done. Wish I had a abetter answer for you! In the meantime, be *sure* that your re-uploaded photo matches exactly to the original in terms of aspect ratio and size and crop.

(2) Is there a way to turn on this delayed printing option for all of my galleries or do I need to go back to each and every one of them to turn it on?

Gallery by gallery only - but you can make a template and then just apply that template

http://www.smugmug.com/help/picture-storage

Techman1 · August 31, 2006

Andy,

Thanks for the SUPER QUICK reply (as always)! Not what I wanted to hear, but at least I know.

The first issue is real important and I'm glad that you already asked. Hopefully the development team will be able to come up with a way to show us the cropping selected on an image (or even if it was done or not).

Maybe even give us the ability to turn off cropping when we have setup delayed printing. This would give us the ability to crop the image when we upload it back to the server.

The second issue is just a hassle, but not a major deal.

Thanks again for helping all of us!

Best regards,
Fred

sirsloop · September 6, 2006

is the replace feature even working? Call me crazy, but I've been trying to upload a ~3MB file for like an hour. I orinignially thought it was the file size when I was trying to get an ~11MB file uploaded last night. I reduce the resolution one notch to like 8MB and it completed. Now im having the same issues with a super small file. I tried from my 10Mbps/1.5Mbps cable connection at home, and even VPN'd into work and tried from their Qwest T1. The upload seems to finish, then the website goes white and the picture does not appear to change. Anyone else experience this issue? I've tried using both firefox 1.5.0.6 and IE 6.

Andy · September 9, 2006

sirsloop wrote:

is the replace feature even working? Call me crazy, but I've been trying to upload a ~3MB file for like an hour. I orinignially thought it was the file size when I was trying to get an ~11MB file uploaded last night. I reduce the resolution one notch to like 8MB and it completed. Now im having the same issues with a super small file. I tried from my 10Mbps/1.5Mbps cable connection at home, and even VPN'd into work and tried from their Qwest T1. The upload seems to finish, then the website goes white and the picture does not appear to change. Anyone else experience this issue? I've tried using both firefox 1.5.0.6 and IE 6.

It's working here for me. Email me a LINK to the new file (upload it normally to a temporary gallery) ATTN: Andy help@smugmug.com and I'll see if I can get it done for you.

dogwood · September 14, 2006

one suggestion/idea
I've said it before, but this feature is fantastic. It's the biggest time-saver and really is great. I love that I only have to do my final retouching on the images someone actually orders.

One idea though-- would it be possible to list the file name on the replace photo page? There's the thumbnail, but a file name would make it easier to make sure I was replacing that exact photo since sometimes thumbs can look similar. Just a suggestion to improve an already great feature.

Andy · September 14, 2006

dogwood wrote:

I've said it before, but this feature is fantastic. It's the biggest time-saver and really is great. I love that I only have to do my final retouching on the images someone actually orders.

One idea though-- would it be possible to list the file name on the replace photo page? There's the thumbnail, but a file name would make it easier to make sure I was replacing that exact photo since sometimes thumbs can look similar. Just a suggestion to improve an already great feature.

Thanks for the feature request, Pete!

sirsloop · September 14, 2006

Andy wrote:

Thanks for the feature request, Pete!

FYI Andy, I proofed a bunch of shots last night and the replace feature seems to be behaving

lynnesite · September 25, 2006

>>Wish I had a abetter answer for you! In the meantime, be *sure* that your re-uploaded photo matches exactly to the original in terms of aspect ratio and size and crop.<<

Yikes! I upload in original aspect ratio and have edited to the purchase size's aspect ratio and MUST continue to do so, how else would I optimize an image. Suppose I would have heard by now if someone had cropped, with last month's orders all done delayed-print...I **highly** favor turning off the crop option for delayed prints. <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/eek7.gif" border="0" alt="" >

Andy · September 25, 2006

lynnesite wrote:

>>Wish I had a abetter answer for you! In the meantime, be *sure* that your re-uploaded photo matches exactly to the original in terms of aspect ratio and size and crop.<<

Yikes! I upload in original aspect ratio and have edited to the purchase size's aspect ratio and MUST continue to do so, how else would I optimize an image. Suppose I would have heard by now if someone had cropped, with last month's orders all done delayed-print...I **highly** favor turning off the crop option for delayed prints. <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/eek7.gif" border="0" alt="" >

Yeah, it's important. Don says he's working on a way to allow you to see what, if any crop the customer has chosen...

dogwood · September 25, 2006

that would be great

Andy wrote:

Yeah, it's important. Don says he's working on a way to allow you to see what, if any crop the customer has chosen...

I'd very, very much support this ability to see the crop chosen by the customer as well.

BeachBill · September 26, 2006

lynnesite wrote:

Yikes! I upload in original aspect ratio and have edited to the purchase size's aspect ratio and MUST continue to do so, how else would I optimize an image. Suppose I would have heard by now if someone had cropped, with last month's orders all done delayed-print...I **highly** favor turning off the crop option for delayed prints.

Yes, allow us the option to disable the crop feature and give us the ability to upload individual images cropped for each aspect ratio--like smugmug's competitors do.

I just realized that smugmug is violating our copyrights by modifying our pictures when a customer changes the crop from what the photographer (copyright holder) has defined.

SteveM · September 26, 2006

BeachBill wrote:

Yes, allow us the option to disable the crop feature and give us the ability to upload individual images cropped for each aspect ratio--like smugmug's competitors do.

I just realized that smugmug is violating our copyrights by modifying our pictures when a customer changes the crop from what the photographer (copyright holder) has defined.

Oh man! Don't count me in on that list! I already have 700 photos every couple weeks to post process. I don't want to make that 2800+, cropping and recropping each for every conceivable variation. There has to be a better way. I guess that suggestion would be okay if it were built into the proof-delay process, but again you run into the same dilema that one customer orders 6 copies of the same print, going from the same image, in three different sizes.

Andy · September 26, 2006

BeachBill wrote:

I just realized that smugmug is violating our copyrights by modifying our pictures when a customer changes the crop from what the photographer (copyright holder) has defined.

We don't lock out cropping, because it becomes our worst nightmare if we do. Honestly, the biggest thing we ever did in printing was to empower the consumer to set their own cropping. They see the crop lines, they get it most of the time, and without it we had too many returns.

I'm interested to see how we violate the terms of agreement between you and us, and especially your copyright?

Phyxius · September 26, 2006

Andy wrote:

We don't lock out cropping, because it becomes our worst nightmare if we do. Honestly, the biggest thing we ever did in printing was to empower the consumer to set their own cropping. They see the crop lines, they get it most of the time, and without it we had too many returns.

I love letting the customer choose the crop! It was a little difficult at first to not crop myself, but I know that since my camera (dSLR) takes photos at a ratio of 4x6, that some photos simply WON'T crop well if I was too tight when taking the picture. So, allowing the customer to see the crop FIRST is terrific and they know exactly what they're going to get!

BeachBill · September 26, 2006

Andy wrote:

We don't lock out cropping, because it becomes our worst nightmare if we do. Honestly, the biggest thing we ever did in printing was to empower the consumer to set their own cropping. They see the crop lines, they get it most of the time, and without it we had too many returns.

I can understand the reason for adding the feature. To make smugmug better this should be expanded to allow the photographer the option to control (turn off) cropping by allowing uploads of images cropped to specific aspect ratios that they want to sell. This would give you the best of both worlds; default to the customer-allowed cropping but allow the photographer control it on any image they want (like Exposure Manager does).

Andy wrote:

I'm interested to see how we violate the terms of agreement between you and us, and especially your copyright?

If the terms of service already say that the copyright holder is giving up creative control over cropping, you are covered. If it's not there, it should probably be added.

Baldy · October 7, 2006

dogwood wrote:

I'd very, very much support this ability to see the crop chosen by the customer as well.

Okay, that just went live. You can see and adjust what the customer chose for cropping, and override their color choice as well.

SteveM · October 7, 2006

Baldy wrote:

Okay, that just went live. You can see and adjust what the customer chose for cropping, and override their color choice as well.

Are you serious?! That rocks! I cannot believe that no one has commented on this yet. Awesome!!

Andy · October 7, 2006

SteveM wrote:

Are you serious?! That rocks! I cannot believe that no one has commented on this yet. Awesome!!

we pushed it in the wee hours last night... enjoy!

sirsloop · October 7, 2006

This is an awesome upgrade guys!!

Much needed.....

alixmiles · October 9, 2006

ok here is the the deal....I have over 65000 images on my site. Would take forever to upload full size originals....so I was stoked about the proof delay. But I just discovered that the larger sizes are not available to my customers because I have uploaded a reduced file. How bout the ablility to offer all sizes regardless of the size of original. It could be a bulk feature...like the pricing.

All my pics are taken at the highest resolution..either 8mp or 12.9 depending on which camera i use.
Can you guys make this happen?

Thanks
Barry
www.lawsonimages.com

SteveM · October 9, 2006

alixmiles wrote:

ok here is the the deal....I have over 65000 images on my site. Would take forever to upload full size originals....so I was stoked about the proof delay. But I just discovered that the larger sizes are not available to my customers because I have uploaded a reduced file. How bout the ablility to offer all sizes regardless of the size of original. It could be a bulk feature...like the pricing.

All my pics are taken at the highest resolution..either 8mp or 12.9 depending on which camera i use.
Can you guys make this happen?

Thanks
Barry
www.lawsonimages.com

Just my two cents here, but Smugmug usually suggests in situations like this, keeping the same resolution and uploading at a different quality. Say Photoshop 7 instead of 10-12. Also you might consider that the minimum resolution is 1200x1600 for a 30x40 print based on these guidelines: http://www.smugmug.com/help/print-quality

So if you were to resize to 1200x1600 and save at quality 5-7, then do proof delay it should take the edge off significantly. I can definitely forsee big problems especially for the non-Pro or even Pros that overlook this if you could attempt to print any size at any resolution. The Smugmug guarantee would see a LOT more returns.

Hope this helps!

The Proof-delayed Shipping Thread (Tips, Questions)

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