TIP --> Sport Shooting at night w/flash

rwellsrwells Registered Users Posts: 6,084 Major grins
edited September 16, 2011 in Sports
Hey guys/gals,

Thought I would share a setup for shooting night sports with flash. (if allowed) This setup will keep you from having the dreaded "red eye".

Take your monopod and mount a superclamp on it. I prefer not to have the flash sticking straight out, so I also use an elbow on the superclamp.

I connected 2 Canon off-camera cords to give enough length. (you can get by on the very edge of no red-eye with one cord) I used my 580EX in ETTL mode, varying the FEC as needed via camera control.

Mount the flash upside down to give that much more distance from the lens.

Here are a couple of pics:
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Here are some pics from last night with this setup...


NOTE: Sorry for the strange 8x12 crop. That's what the company I shot these for wanted :dunno

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Ha... Look at those shadows!
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Another tough loss in the last 2 minutes -- happened last week too :cry
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Randy
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Comments

  • jonh68jonh68 Registered Users Posts: 2,711 Major grins
    edited October 27, 2007
    That's a great tip.
  • i_worship_the_Kingi_worship_the_King Registered Users Posts: 548 Major grins
    edited October 27, 2007
    Geez - those shadows have to be 50 meters away - that flash is BLAZING up the night air. Great shot of the look of defeat, one I haven't been able to get although it's definitely deserved around here :cry

    Excellent work! thumb.gif
    I make it policy to never let ignorance stand in the way of my opinion. ~Justiceiro

    "Your decisions on whether to buy, when to buy and what to buy should depend on careful consideration of your needs primarily, with a little of your wants thrown in for enjoyment, After all photography is a hobby, even for pros."
    ~Herbert Keppler
  • NimaiNimai Registered Users Posts: 564 Major grins
    edited October 29, 2007
    That would have been an interesting excercise to try and figure out how you were doing that, looking at those shadows! :)
    Great idea! Now, I need to start using a monopod, or I'll be strapping the flash to my ankle! rolleyes1.gif
  • rwellsrwells Registered Users Posts: 6,084 Major grins
    edited October 29, 2007
    This setup will definitely get you some great shots.

    The pics also show how "smart" Canon's ETTL II setup is. I set it and only have to use FEC on really far away shots (150'+), or really close shots (about to get run over).

    I shot these pics:
    camera manual - ISO 1000 - f/4 ~ f/4.5 - 1/250 - 580EX --> ETTL



    Have fun! Hope this helps...
    Randy
  • i_worship_the_Kingi_worship_the_King Registered Users Posts: 548 Major grins
    edited October 29, 2007
    rwells wrote:
    This setup will definitely get you some great shots.

    The pics also show how "smart" Canon's ETTL II setup is. I set it and only have to use FEC on really far away shots (150'+), or really close shots (about to get run over).

    I shot these pics:
    camera manual - ISO 1000 - f/4 ~ f/4.5 - 1/250 - 580EX --> ETTL



    Have fun! Hope this helps...

    What lens are you shooting with?
    I make it policy to never let ignorance stand in the way of my opinion. ~Justiceiro

    "Your decisions on whether to buy, when to buy and what to buy should depend on careful consideration of your needs primarily, with a little of your wants thrown in for enjoyment, After all photography is a hobby, even for pros."
    ~Herbert Keppler
  • rwellsrwells Registered Users Posts: 6,084 Major grins
    edited October 29, 2007
    What lens are you shooting with?

    Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS + Canon 1.4TC
    Randy
  • schmooschmoo Registered Users Posts: 8,468 Major grins
    edited October 29, 2007
    Hi Randy, this is great! Do you mind if we add this to the Dgrin tutorials?
  • rwellsrwells Registered Users Posts: 6,084 Major grins
    edited October 29, 2007
    schmoo wrote:
    Hi Randy, this is great! Do you mind if we add this to the Dgrin tutorials?


    That would be great... It will certainly help photogs get better "non-redeye" pics.

    Do I need to load the pics somewhere else? I don't plan on it, but sometimes I get into the mood to rearrange/delete pics without remembering which ones I've linked to some post.


    Thanks,
    Randy
  • schmooschmoo Registered Users Posts: 8,468 Major grins
    edited October 29, 2007
    rwells wrote:
    That would be great... It will certainly help photogs get better "non-redeye" pics.

    Do I need to load the pics somewhere else? I don't plan on it, but sometimes I get into the mood to rearrange/delete pics without remembering which ones I've linked to some post.


    Thanks,

    I can take care of that and load them into the Dgrin galleries, so no worries about moving them. thumb.gif
  • Mr. 2H2OMr. 2H2O Registered Users Posts: 427 Major grins
    edited October 29, 2007
    Thanks for the explanation - I was going to do about the same thing this coming weekend at an event I'll be shooting in the dark. I had planned to rig the flash around waist height upside down while using a remote flash sync. My F2.0 camera does not have TTL on flash so I'd just use whatever experience I've gained for manual settings. Nice to see a fine implementation work so well in your shots. It gives me hope.

    - Mike
    Olympus E-30
    IR Modified Sony F717
    http://2H2OPhoto.smugmug.com
  • rwellsrwells Registered Users Posts: 6,084 Major grins
    edited October 29, 2007
    Mr. 2H2O wrote:
    Thanks for the explanation - I was going to do about the same thing this coming weekend at an event I'll be shooting in the dark. I had planned to rig the flash around waist height upside down while using a remote flash sync. My F2.0 camera does not have TTL on flash so I'd just use whatever experience I've gained for manual settings. Nice to see a fine implementation work so well in your shots. It gives me hope.

    - Mike


    Glad I could help you out Mike.

    Make sure you post some of your pics after the shoot thumb.gif


    Have fun!
    Randy
  • donekdonek Registered Users Posts: 655 Major grins
    edited October 29, 2007
    Awesome tip Randy. Too bad my football season just ended. I guess I know what to do for next year.
    Sean Martin
    www.seanmartinphoto.com

    __________________________________________________
    it's not the size of the lens that matters... It's how you focus it.

    aaaaa.... who am I kidding!

    whoever dies with the biggest coolest piece of glass, wins!
  • rwellsrwells Registered Users Posts: 6,084 Major grins
    edited October 29, 2007
    donek wrote:
    Awesome tip Randy. Too bad my football season just ended. I guess I know what to do for next year.


    Don't wait until next year to use this setup...


    Just carrying it around will amaze and scare everyone rolleyes1.gifrolleyes1.gifrolleyes1.gif
    Randy
  • pathfinderpathfinder Super Moderators Posts: 14,694 moderator
    edited October 30, 2007
    This setup worked very nicely indeed. Great series of shots. I like the EOS Speedlite system alsothumb.gif

    I have one question though - do you find you get a green cast from the light being bounced off the playing field onto the white uniforms?

    The lack of shadows of the band, and the shadows on the stands are very cool.
    This technique gives great shots of the players faces also - the light gets in so much better than with lights higher up.
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • rwellsrwells Registered Users Posts: 6,084 Major grins
    edited October 30, 2007
    pathfinder wrote:
    This setup worked very nicely indeed. Great series of shots. I like the EOS Speedlite system alsothumb.gif

    I have one question though - do you find you get a green cast from the light being bounced off the playing field onto the white uniforms?

    The lack of shadows of the band, and the shadows on the stands are very cool.
    This technique gives great shots of the players faces also - the light gets in so much better than with lights higher up.


    Jim,

    Thanks for the kind words. (and I know you know what good work is, I've seen plenty of it from you thumb.gif )

    I didn't get any color cast from the grass. I was watching this like a hawk. This was a contract job and had to be spot-on. I think the reason it didn't is because the way I had the flash angled. It wasn't bouncing off of the grass much, just kind of kissing it. If you can invision it, I had the light low shooting somewhat up.

    I did have to adjust the angle of the flash some to get the right "look". When the flash is pointing directly parallel to the lens, it lit the ground more than I wanted. So, I moved the flash angle upward until I got the ground lit the way I wanted and the shadows pretty much off the field.

    Hope that answers your question.
    Randy
  • gman33gman33 Registered Users Posts: 279 Major grins
    edited October 31, 2007
    Great tip...thanks for sharing

    What were the lights on the field like? It looks like it was very well lit. I tend to shoot the smaller guys with lights that are not that great.

    Thanks again
    Ed G - Philadelphia, PA
    http://ergphoto.smugmug.com
  • rwellsrwells Registered Users Posts: 6,084 Major grins
    edited October 31, 2007
    gman33 wrote:
    Great tip...thanks for sharing

    What were the lights on the field like? It looks like it was very well lit. I tend to shoot the smaller guys with lights that are not that great.

    Thanks again


    The field lights, while evenly dispersed, were not great.

    ISO 3200 - f/2.8 - 1/200


    Although I've shot several games successfully at the above settings, I found out before this game that I could use flash at this stadium. Since it was a contract job, I wanted them to look their best.

    The flash also allowed me to "loose" one stop and use a TC1.4 for more reach.
    Randy
  • pathfinderpathfinder Super Moderators Posts: 14,694 moderator
    edited October 31, 2007
    rwells wrote:
    Jim,

    Thanks for the kind words. (and I know you know what good work is, I've seen plenty of it from you thumb.gif )

    I didn't get any color cast from the grass. I was watching this like a hawk. This was a contract job and had to be spot-on. I think the reason it didn't is because the way I had the flash angled. It wasn't bouncing off of the grass much, just kind of kissing it. If you can invision it, I had the light low shooting somewhat up.

    I did have to adjust the angle of the flash some to get the right "look". When the flash is pointing directly parallel to the lens, it lit the ground more than I wanted. So, I moved the flash angle upward until I got the ground lit the way I wanted and the shadows pretty much off the field.

    Hope that answers your question.

    Thanks, Randy, that is very helpful. This looks like a great tip to really help folks shooting sports in the dark of the night. I'll bet Zanotti ( George) gives this a try next time as well.

    I was concerned, having shot a few white dresses on a golf course, that green can become prominent. Sounds like you've been there as well, and I can grok not letting the flash really light up the ground, but just skim along over it.

    I see Schmoo has got your tutorial transferred already as well.
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • rwellsrwells Registered Users Posts: 6,084 Major grins
    edited November 1, 2007
    pathfinder wrote:
    I see Schmoo has got your tutorial transferred already as well.

    Your welcome Jim,


    Guess my old age and bad eyes are catching up to me, but I couldn't find the tutorial posted. I was going to send it to someone when it was.

    Can you direct me there?
    Randy
  • schmooschmoo Registered Users Posts: 8,468 Major grins
    edited November 28, 2007
    Tutorials have been updated with this one here.

    Thanks, Randy! thumb.gif
  • CookieSCookieS Registered Users Posts: 854 Major grins
    edited January 9, 2008
    I wonder how this setup would work in daylight for getting under hats and stuff against harsh light ?? loks like some experimenting is in order.
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,904 moderator
    edited January 10, 2008
    Thanks for sharing!
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • jbr13jbr13 Registered Users Posts: 251 Major grins
    edited January 10, 2008
    Where can you get that elbow at? and what kind is it??


    Thanks

    Jason
    Jason

    http://jbr.smugmug.com/

    "When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced... Live your life so that when you die, the world cries and you rejoice"
  • cmasoncmason Registered Users Posts: 2,506 Major grins
    edited January 10, 2008
    jbr13 wrote:
    Where can you get that elbow at? and what kind is it??


    Thanks

    Jason

    Superclamp
    Swivel mount
  • djspinner2kdjspinner2k Registered Users Posts: 127 Major grins
    edited January 11, 2008
    wow thats a great tipthumb.gif
    EVGENY:D
    www.petrovphotography.com
    http://petrovphotography.smugmug.com

    Canon 30D
    Canon 24-70mm F2.8L
    Canon 70-200mm F2.8L
    Canon 430EX Flash
  • rwellsrwells Registered Users Posts: 6,084 Major grins
    edited January 12, 2008
    wow thats a great tipthumb.gif

    Hope it helps you out thumb.gif
    Randy
  • StarrToDowlerStarrToDowler Registered Users Posts: 57 Big grins
    edited November 27, 2008
    Night flash
    I always liked the way shots like this come out... but I also worry that the flash may momentarily blind a player during an important play and change the outcome of the play. Since the LAST thing I want to do is have an effect on the game, I'd like to know if anyone has ever had any problems or comments from players regarding flash during a game.

    Thanks!
    There are only 10 kinds of people in the world... those who understand binary, and those who don't.
  • KEDKED Registered Users Posts: 843 Major grins
    edited November 27, 2008
    I always liked the way shots like this come out... but I also worry that the flash may momentarily blind a player during an important play and change the outcome of the play. Since the LAST thing I want to do is have an effect on the game, I'd like to know if anyone has ever had any problems or comments from players regarding flash during a game.

    Thanks!
    I worried about that too, but really wanted to try Randy's technique so I did, once, this football season. I think the low mount of the flash minimizes the risk of blinding a player just as he's trying to make a catch or whatever. Another mitigant is that you aren't necessarily shooting all that close up to the player. I don't know the physics of light fall-off, but it "feels" like it's pretty severe over, say, 30 yards of distance. Anyway, I got no complaints and, while my results could have been better (need to tweak some settings), I plan to use it in NCAA Div. I lacrosse next spring. If THAT doesn't elicit complaints, nothing will.

    Give it a try!
  • cr8ingwavescr8ingwaves Registered Users Posts: 194 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2011
    I have put this project onto the back burner long enough. Just placed an order for the three components and will use it next Friday night. Cheaper than buying the 70-200 2.8II right now. lol Thanks for sharing!
  • JimKarczewskiJimKarczewski Registered Users Posts: 969 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2011
    Cheaper than buying the 70-200 2.8II right now.

    Even so, you should really make that 70-200 a priority, especially for sports...
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