Originally Posted by jfriend Well, I did finally succeed in getting what I wanted up onto Smugmug. Here's what I had to do (I still think there has to be a better way): So anyway, I wouldn't say I'm pleased with all the steps of the workflow and heaven knows this is certainly not something most people can figure out how to do, but I at least know how to get a video up online now.

John, I'm in almost the exact same predicament as you. I have a Sony HDR-SR11 and want to upload movies from it to SmugMug.

The good news is, I've figured out how to do this using only Sony Vegas Movie Studio 9 Platinum. I simply import the m2t files from the camera into Vegas, then render them with "Make Movie" from the file menu. The "trick" was that I had to make a custom render template under the "Advanced Render" option in the "Make Movie - Render Settings" dialog. In brief, the video render options I selected were:

Type: Sony AVC (*.mp4, *.m2tx, *.avc)
Template: Custom
Video Format: AVC
Frame Size: (Custom frame size)
Width: 1280
Height: 720
Profile: Main
Entropy Coding: CABAC
Frame rate: 29.970 (NTSC)
Field Order: None (progressive scan)
Pixel Aspect: 1.0000
Bit rate: 4,000,000

The key here, really, is the AVC format, which encodes video in H.264. I haven't tried it, but I'm sure you can change the other parameters. I chose to render to 720p since that's SmugMug's max resolution.

I end up with an *.mp4 file I can upload to SmugMug without a hitch.

If you want to try it and need more info, let me know. I can give you a bit more of a step-by-step process with screen shots.

Originally Posted by BenA2 John, I'm in almost the exact same predicament as you. I have a Sony HDR-SR11 and want to upload movies from it to SmugMug. The good news is, I've figured out how to do this using only Sony Vegas Movie Studio 9 Platinum. I simply import the m2t files from the camera into Vegas, then render them with "Make Movie" from the file menu. The "trick" was that I had to make a custom render template under the "Advanced Render" option in the "Make Movie - Render Settings" dialog. In brief, the video render options I selected were: Type: Sony AVC (*.mp4, *.m2tx, *.avc) Template: Custom Video Format: AVC Frame Size: (Custom frame size) Width: 1280 Height: 720 Profile: Main Entropy Coding: CABAC Frame rate: 29.970 (NTSC) Field Order: None (progressive scan) Pixel Aspect: 1.0000 Bit rate: 4,000,000 The key here, really, is the AVC format, which encodes video in H.264. I haven't tried it, but I'm sure you can change the other parameters. I chose to render to 720p since that's SmugMug's max resolution. I end up with an *.mp4 file I can upload to SmugMug without a hitch. If you want to try it and need more info, let me know. I can give you a bit more of a step-by-step process with screen shots.

Cool. Thanks for the update. At the time I last did the research, I think only the pro version could actually save edited video as HD. After investing in an HD video camera, that seemed kind of silly and the pro version seemed ridiculously expensive for me needs. Either I misunderstood that limitation at the time or they've moved this capability into the Platinum version. I never really solved my problem (lots of unedited video from a trip to Kenya waiting for me to do something with) so I may give it a go with Vegas Platinum. Thanks for the info. If I run into any snags, I'll let you know.

OK, Windows Junkie here.

I have some MOV files from Canon 5D2 and Canon 7D that I would like to make a movie from. The only movie editor I have is Windows Live Movie Maker (on my Windows 7x64 laptop) - which conveniently doesn't understand MOV format :-(.

Funnily, Windows Media Player plays them fine, both on XPx86 and W7x64.

So I need to convert my MOV files into something WMM would understand.

I tried a bunch of free converters: Format Factory, SUPER, Bink - some error out, others claim they convert 100%, but in fact they convert 1 second (or 1 frame) and then decide to stop.

At this point my only way to get them converted is to upload them to SM and then get back mp4. It works, but what a great waste of bandwidth and time.

Anybody had similar problem and found a better solution?

TIA!

And no, converting to Mac is not a viable option :-)

Originally Posted by Nikolai OK, Windows Junkie here. I have some MOV files from Canon 5D2 and Canon 7D that I would like to make a movie from. The only movie editor I have is Windows Live Movie Maker (on my Windows 7x64 laptop) - which conveniently doesn't understand MOV format :-(. Funnily, Windows Media Player plays them fine, both on XPx86 and W7x64. So I need to convert my MOV files into something WMM would understand. I tried a bunch of free converters: Format Factory, SUPER, Bink - some error out, others claim they convert 100%, but in fact they convert 1 second (or 1 frame) and then decide to stop. At this point my only way to get them converted is to upload them to SM and then get back mp4. It works, but what a great waste of bandwidth and time. Anybody had similar problem and found a better solution? TIA! And no, converting to Mac is not a viable option :-)

mpeg streamclip

Originally Posted by DavidTO mpeg streamclip

Thank you, I'll try that one!
EDIT: Finally, something that works! Thank you David!

Originally Posted by Nikolai Thank you, I'll try that one!

MPEG Streamclip will work if you transcode to Motion JPEG. But, as I'm sure you know, that's a lossy conversion.

As far as I know, in Windows, there are only two methods to edit 5DII/7D files without a lossy intermediate format and neither is free. The first is to use Pinnacle as your editor. It's users claim it can edit the MOV files natively without an intermediate codec. The second is to use Cineform Neoscene ($129) to transcode to its 10-bit, lossless format. I know you can edit the Cineform files in Premier and Vegas. I'm not sure about Movie Maker, but I don't see why not. More info in this thread.

If you're OK with a bit of degradation, then MPEG Streamclip is the best free alternative I know of.

Originally Posted by BenA2 MPEG Streamclip will work if you transcode to Motion JPEG. But, as I'm sure you know, that's a lossy conversion. As far as I know, in Windows, there are only two methods to edit 5DII/7D files without a lossy intermediate format and neither is free. The first is to use Pinnacle as your editor. It's users claim it can edit the MOV files natively without an intermediate codec. The second is to use Cineform Neoscene ($129) to transcode to its 10-bit, lossless format. I know you can edit the Cineform files in Premier and Vegas. I'm not sure about Movie Maker, but I don't see why not. More info in this thread. If you're OK with a bit of degradation, then MPEG Streamclip is the best free alternative I know of.

Dunno about the Windows version, but the Mac version has plenty of good editing codecs.

I'd be interested to know if it's really all that different on the Windows side.

I got mpeg streamclip converted my MOV to AVI. Looks like the same quality to me.

Originally Posted by Nikolai I got mpeg streamclip converted my MOV to AVI. Looks like the same quality to me.

AVI is not a codec and neither is Quicktime. Both are simply multimedia containers for various possible codecs. MOV for example can contain anything from DV to H.264 to uncompressed 1080p HD. The same goes for AVI, however - since I am a Mac user, I am not sure if AVI on the Windows sinde supports as many professional video codecs as Quicktime does.

So the question is, which codec did you use for your AVI files?

--- Markus ---

There might also be another solution. I spent many hours this week working on trying to convert a WebEx recording to a AVI or WMV that I could edit with my software (Camtasia). I found that Microsoft does have some other tools out there that helps with some of these transcoding. Rather than try to explain it, here is the link http://support.microsoft.com/kb/923946/ fixed my problem in about 30 minutes (rendering time for a 90 minute WebEx recording)

David / or Any Guru....

When converting a DV tape camcorder video via firewire onto the computer does using a specific software program make a difference in quailty in the AVI file?

I've been using adobe premiere 6.0 for the past 7 years or so to do that process.... fyi I havent used the program to do anything but make a AVI file for backup purposes, but soon I will start editing all those old home movies!

So I wonder if when I actually get to editing these videos will I be working with the best file possible ( "DV tape to AVI file using an old software program) or SHOULD I RE-DOWNLOAD from the old DV Tapes using a new program on a new super computer to get the best possible quality ??....

btw, I still haven't decided what program to use yet.
I'm thinking maybe its time to try Mac, but I just don't understand the pricing for them, so maybe I will just get Vegas 9 for my newest photography editing PC instead ???...

btw, I've read that there are issues working with 5d2 files with Vegas... would I be better off getting Pinnacle 14, or is it time for Finalcut pro and a Mac?

Originally Posted by AaronNelson David / or Any Guru.... When converting a DV tape camcorder video via firewire onto the computer does using a specific software program make a difference in quailty in the AVI file? ..... I'm thinking maybe its time to try Mac, but I just don't understand the pricing for them, so maybe I will just get Vegas 9 for my newest photography editing PC instead ???... btw, I've read that there are issues working with 5d2 files with Vegas... would I be better off getting Pinnacle 14, or is it time for Finalcut pro and a Mac?

Well, I have to say, I am biased. I am a professional editor and I have been using Macs for the past 15 years. I do use Final Cut Pro on a daily basis for my editing work and I cannot imagine having to do the same things on a PC. (I used to have a Windows PC before I became an editor. In our company we use about 40 Macs and 3 PCs for the accounting department. Our IT people have to spend most of their time with the PCs. The Macs just work.)

First of all - what is not to understand about the pricing of Macs? Any Mac can edit HD video out of the box with no additional hardware needed, so it's just a matter of how extensively you're planning to edit video and what you expect of your editing system.

Without knowing what exactly you're plannig to do, I'd say iMacs make really terrific editing systems for the vast majority of people. They have a terrific screen and are quite powerful and cost the same (if not less) than an equally equipped PC. Plus: your'e getting the Mac operating system, which not only is immune to virus attacks, it's also incredibly easy to use.

If you want more specific information about editing software and Apple hardware, I'd be happy to help you along.

--- Markus ---

Originally Posted by AaronNelson David / or Any Guru.... When converting a DV tape camcorder video via firewire onto the computer does using a specific software program make a difference in quailty in the AVI file? I've been using adobe premiere 6.0 for the past 7 years or so to do that process.... fyi I havent used the program to do anything but make a AVI file for backup purposes, but soon I will start editing all those old home movies! So I wonder if when I actually get to editing these videos will I be working with the best file possible ( "DV tape to AVI file using an old software program) or SHOULD I RE-DOWNLOAD from the old DV Tapes using a new program on a new super computer to get the best possible quality ??.... btw, I still haven't decided what program to use yet. I'm thinking maybe its time to try Mac, but I just don't understand the pricing for them, so maybe I will just get Vegas 9 for my newest photography editing PC instead ???... btw, I've read that there are issues working with 5d2 files with Vegas... would I be better off getting Pinnacle 14, or is it time for Finalcut pro and a Mac?

SD DV is already compressed so that when you import the video stream from tape into the computer the "capture" software, or capture function of editing software, simply inserts the DV frames into an appropriate "wrapper". Any modern DV wrapper contains discrete video frames that are digitally identical to the video frames on the original source tape.

Re-compression only occurs when when editing software inserts transitions and performs video filtering, etc. Simple cuts only break the chain of video frames, but they do not re-compress.

The video wrapper is important in PC editing in that some wrappers allow certain features such as extremely long play times in a single file. Some video editing software can also be sensitive to the particular wrapper and only support certain types, so it's important to use the correct type in capture that is supported by the editing software. For modern Windows/PCs that is generally MS DV Type-2 in an AVI "container" file format.

I have 5 video editing machines that do a fine job with DV video capture and editing, and they date all the way back to Windows 98 and Pentium III and Athlon architecture. DV editing does not have to require that modern of a machine for capture or basic editing. Yes, Windows works fine.

The video files from a Canon 5D MKII use an MP4 type of compression in an MOV container that is much different from DV and 1080 x 1920 maximum resolution has 6 times the resolution of DV video format. This means that an older Windows machine, or older Mac for that matter, will struggle or fail to be able to adequately handle the video needs of a 5D MKII video. My XP based Pentium IV 3 Ghz and 2 GB RAM machine could not do it.

I upgraded to a Windows 7, i5 - 750 (quad core) based machine with 4 GB RAM and it handles the files nicely.

http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=163249

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883229130

I just checked and the same machine is still available and the price has dropped $10.

I have tested both Sony Vegas Pro 9 and Corel VideoStudio Pro X3 and they are both good to handle 5D MKII files natively. Since the Corel software includes some very handy additional software that I use, and since I don't currently need all of the extra video tracks available in the Sony software, I'll probably purchase the Corel software (currently $70).

http://dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1378070&postcount=3

http://dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1386254&postcount=5

Originally Posted by THX1965 Well, I have to say, I am biased. I am a professional editor and I have been using Macs for the past 15 years. I do use Final Cut Pro on a daily basis for my editing work and I cannot imagine having to do the same things on a PC. (I used to have a Windows PC before I became an editor. In our company we use about 40 Macs and 3 PCs for the accounting department. Our IT people have to spend most of their time with the PCs. The Macs just work.) First of all - what is not to understand about the pricing of Macs? Any Mac can edit HD video out of the box with no additional hardware needed, so it's just a matter of how extensively you're planning to edit video and what you expect of your editing system. Without knowing what exactly you're plannig to do, I'd say iMacs make really terrific editing systems for the vast majority of people. They have a terrific screen and are quite powerful and cost the same (if not less) than an equally equipped PC. Plus: your'e getting the Mac operating system, which not only is immune to virus attacks, it's also incredibly easy to use. If you want more specific information about editing software and Apple hardware, I'd be happy to help you along. --- Markus ---

Thanks Markus, keep an eye out for my new thread I start today or tomorrow thats just for me and my ignorant questions (so not to get OT in this thread) I really will need to discuss this Mac thing further!

Originally Posted by ziggy53 The video wrapper is important in PC editing in that some wrappers allow certain features such as extremely long play times in a single file. Some video editing software can also be sensitive to the particular wrapper and only support certain types, so it's important to use the correct type in capture that is supported by the editing software. For modern Windows/PCs that is generally MS DV Type-2 in an AVI "container" file format.

Ziggy, you really have helped me through a few grey areas!
I have no idea what format my camcorder records to DV tape (I don't even think there is a choice) but I just playback the stream to computer via firewire.
If I understand your comments correctly then the AVI file will have no quality issues due to the software but will be limited to what the camcorder transfers over to the computer and how it was recorded in the first place...
I really don't mind the quality of the AVI file as they sit now, I just didn't want to start editing with a AVI file I could easily re-do from the original DV tapes with new software.

Originally Posted by AaronNelson Ziggy, you really have helped me through a few grey areas! I have no idea what format my camcorder records to DV tape (I don't even think there is a choice) but I just playback the stream to computer via firewire. If I understand your comments correctly then the AVI file will have no quality issues due to the software but will be limited to what the camcorder transfers over to the computer and how it was recorded in the first place... I really don't mind the quality of the AVI file as they sit now, I just didn't want to start editing with a AVI file I could easily re-do from the original DV tapes with new software.

DV videotape is not a file, you may think of it as a stream of video data, with each video frame a discrete image.

I'll assume that you use DV-mini video tapes (the most popular type of DV video acquisition.) The video camera portion of your camcorder captures 30 frames per second at a constant size and bit rate. Each of those 30 frames per second is a discrete video frame and not linked or dependent on the surrounding frames. All compression and quantization is preformed by the capture components of the camcorder and only the discrete frames are recorded onto the video tape. The tape itself is the container, but the video stream can be started and stopped at any point on the tape simply by re-positioning the tape (using forward and reverse positioning of the tape.)

When you "transfer" the DV video stream onto a computer you choose software which has a "capture" function, which in turn "encapsulates" the video stream into a "wrapper" and "container", but the video stream of discrete video frames are digitally identical to the original frames on the DV videotape. The wrapper and container you choose should be compatible with the software you wish to use for editing, but the video frames, as long as you stay in a DV dialect codec, will remain untouched and digitally identical to the original DV videotape video frames. (The audio section is another matter entirely, however.) I generally choose to use the Microsoft (MS) DV Type-2 codec (wrapper) and AVI file format (container) for Windows use.

The capture method of the Canon 5D MKII, and all other video dSLRs as far as I am aware, is much different. The video stream is highly compressed and both wrapper and container are applied in the camera. You can literally just copy the resulting video file from the camera's memory card directly onto the computer hard drive. As long as the computer software you wish to use understands the file, you are generally good to go. Further conversion may have to be performed against the video for the purpose of editing and applying effects, transitions, filters and such, but the computer software (or multiple software) should take care of that.

As an aside, the compression system used by all video dSLRs is not one that results in discrete video frames, like the old DV format was. Unfortunately with the MPEG type of compression used in the video dSLRs each frame is generally only partial information and dependent on the video information of surrounding frames. The reasoning is that if part of a a scene can be repeated, it does not need to be recorded for each frame. Thus repeating scene information is considered redundant and only recorded when it actually changes. As you might guess this increases the processing load of the editing software and computer processor considerably.

excellent info Ziggy I am very grateful for your assistance!

Originally Posted by ziggy53 I'll assume that you use DV-mini video tapes (the most popular type of DV video acquisition.) The video camera portion of your camcorder captures 30 frames per second at a constant size and bit rate.

I'm pretty sure DV is 29.97, at least that's what FCP calls it. A small, but important distinction.

Originally Posted by DavidTO I'm pretty sure DV is 29.97, at least that's what FCP calls it. A small, but important distinction.

Absolutely true.

The original US NTSC B&W standard was at 30 fps, but it was changed to 29.97 fps in 1953 to allow for a color subcarrier signal but maintain compatibility with existing B&W TV sets. (To this day I still don't understand the reasoning or technology for the change, but it does work.)

To be complete the DV system also includes a 720x576 resolution @ 25 fps PAL specification compatible with many European TV systems.

Frame rate is an important thing to make sure that is consistent or at least understood. While this might seem small, over the course of a few minutes it adds up to a frame or two. To be honest it has been so long since I did video that I don't remember the exact rate I think it is two frames every ten minutes. Don't tell my college professors....