Originally Posted by jfriend I'm new to video and man is this confusing. I bought a new Sony HDR-SR12. It's HD (1920x1080) and records in AVCHD to it's hard disk. I wrongly assumed when I bought it that Smugmug would support it's video format, but after several failed upload attempts, it has been confirmed that Smugmug doesn't support the video format that comes out of the camera. Bummer. So, I've been struggling for over 24 hours now to find something that can convert it to something that Smugmug understands. The software that comes with the camera won't save to any other HD format. Per Tristan's advice in another thread, I first tried VirtualDub, but it couldn't open my videos at all. Then, he suggested I try MPEG Streamclip. I downloaded that, but it needed QuickTime stuff that's beyond the free QuickTime from Apple which I didn't have. So, I followed it's suggestions and deinstalled QuickTime from Apple and installed QuickTime Alternative, but even after doing that, MPEG Streamclip still says it doesn't have all the QuickTime stuff it needs. So, I gave up on that option. At this point, I had no other ideas for a free converter that would do the job. If anyone else has any good ideas, I'm all ears. At this point, I just want to do format conversion to a Smugmug-supported HD format and probably trimming. I'll save video editing for later. So if I can't find a free program, I figured I'd have to buy something. I decided to try the free trial of Sony Vegas Move Studio Platinum. Since it's made by Sony, it ought to support my camera files. Sure enough, it does. But, now I have to figure out what format to save it to for Smugmug. I've never seen such a daunting array of choices full of acronyms I have no idea what they mean. To save, I have a choice of 16 formats and each format has a choice of 5-20 video codes and audio codecs and each of those has 5-10 settings within them (compression levels, bit rates, etc...). I really have no idea what a good choice is for Smugmug upload that will preserve as much quality as possible from the original and not be any larger than it needs to be to preserve that quality. My choice of save formats are: AVC/AAC MP4 MPEG-1 MPEG-2 OGG MOV RM SONY AVC/AAC MP4 AVI WAV WMA WMV Given that I'm starting in AVCHD, what should I convert to before uploading to Smugmug? And what video and audio codecs should I use? By my calculations there are several hundred permutations of choices here and I'm hoping for some guidance on what is best. Also, my camera records in 5.1 sound, but I think that's not supported by Smugmug. Does that means I have to do something else to the sound? Man, what a mess. I've never pissed away so much time in my life trying to figure this out. All I'm tryhing to do is get a 45 second HD video up on my site from my brand new Sony camera. I've gotten a low-res MPEG2 version up, but don't know what choices will get a full res 1920x1080 version up.

I think I may give up on Sony Vegas Platinum. Apparently, it will NOT save to true 1080i (only 720). You need the pro version of the product ($549) just to do a basic edit and save what came from the camera at full 1080i/p. Man, this is ridiculous.

Despite what I've read on the net about their program stability, I may have to try the trial versions of ULEAD and Pinnacle.

Originally Posted by DavidTO John, Video codecs are truly horrendous. I work in video every day, but thankfully never have to worry about it, since I'm all offline, DV, and I have assistants to worry about things that aren't. I have no help to offer, just that I hear ya, brother.

David, are there any good forums that talk about video editing software where I might find some experts in this stuff?

Somebody must know what good mid-level editing software is for all these new AVCHD video cameras that could both read the Sony files and save to one of the Smugmug support formats. I think that rather than wasting a whole another day, I need to find people who know about this stuff.

I don't follow those forums, but I do know about this one.

I recommend either a .mov or .avi with the h.264 codec, AAC 128kbps audio (stereo or mono).

If you can't do the h.264 codec, just make sure your video uses one of our supported codecs and you should be fine. Here's the list:

http://wiki.smugmug.com/display/SmugMug/Video+Formats

I hope this helps.

Originally Posted by jfriend I'm new to video and man is this confusing. I bought a new Sony HDR-SR12. It's HD (1920x1080) and records in AVCHD to it's hard disk. I wrongly assumed when I bought it that Smugmug would support it's video format, but after several failed upload attempts, it has been confirmed that Smugmug doesn't support the video format that comes out of the camera. Bummer. So, I've been struggling for over 24 hours now to find something that can convert it to something that Smugmug understands. The software that comes with the camera won't save to any other HD format. Per Tristan's advice in another thread, I first tried VirtualDub, but it couldn't open my videos at all. Then, he suggested I try MPEG Streamclip. I downloaded that, but it needed QuickTime stuff that's beyond the free QuickTime from Apple which I didn't have. So, I followed it's suggestions and deinstalled QuickTime from Apple and installed QuickTime Alternative, but even after doing that, MPEG Streamclip still says it doesn't have all the QuickTime stuff it needs. So, I gave up on that option. At this point, I had no other ideas for a free converter that would do the job. If anyone else has any good ideas, I'm all ears. At this point, I just want to do format conversion to a Smugmug-supported HD format and probably trimming. I'll save video editing for later. So if I can't find a free program, I figured I'd have to buy something. I decided to try the free trial of Sony Vegas Move Studio Platinum. Since it's made by Sony, it ought to support my camera files. Sure enough, it does. But, now I have to figure out what format to save it to for Smugmug. I've never seen such a daunting array of choices full of acronyms I have no idea what they mean. To save, I have a choice of 16 formats and each format has a choice of 5-20 video codes and audio codecs and each of those has 5-10 settings within them (compression levels, bit rates, etc...). I really have no idea what a good choice is for Smugmug upload that will preserve as much quality as possible from the original and not be any larger than it needs to be to preserve that quality. My choice of save formats are: AVC/AAC MP4 MPEG-1 MPEG-2 OGG MOV RM SONY AVC/AAC MP4 AVI WAV WMA WMV Given that I'm starting in AVCHD, what should I convert to before uploading to Smugmug? And what video and audio codecs should I use? By my calculations there are several hundred permutations of choices here and I'm hoping for some guidance on what is best. Also, my camera records in 5.1 sound, but I think that's not supported by Smugmug. Does that means I have to do something else to the sound? Man, what a mess. I've never pissed away so much time in my life trying to figure this out. All I'm tryhing to do is get a 45 second HD video up on my site from my brand new Sony camera. I've gotten a low-res MPEG2 version up, but don't know what choices will get a full res 1920x1080 version up.

Originally Posted by phototristan I recommend either a .mov or .avi with the h.264 codec, AAC 128kbps audio (stereo or mono). If you can't do the h.264 codec, just make sure your video uses one of our supported codecs and you should be fine. Here's the list: http://wiki.smugmug.com/display/SmugMug/Video+Formats I hope this helps.

The only program I've found so far that can read my camera's files, doesn't write h.264 codec. Is there a second favorite codec?

Originally Posted by jfriend David, are there any good forums that talk about video editing software where I might find some experts in this stuff? Somebody must know what good mid-level editing software is for all these new AVCHD video cameras that could both read the Sony files and save to one of the Smugmug support formats. I think that rather than wasting a whole another day, I need to find people who know about this stuff.

What does Sony have to say?

Originally Posted by jfriend I'm new to video and man is this confusing. I bought a new Sony HDR-SR12. It's HD (1920x1080) and records in AVCHD to it's hard disk. I wrongly assumed when I bought it that Smugmug would support it's video format, but after several failed upload attempts, it has been confirmed that Smugmug doesn't support the video format that comes out of the camera. Bummer. So, I've been struggling for over 24 hours now to find something that can convert it to something that Smugmug understands. The software that comes with the camera won't save to any other HD format. Per Tristan's advice in another thread, I first tried VirtualDub, but it couldn't open my videos at all. Then, he suggested I try MPEG Streamclip. I downloaded that, but it needed QuickTime stuff that's beyond the free QuickTime from Apple which I didn't have. So, I followed it's suggestions and deinstalled QuickTime from Apple and installed QuickTime Alternative, but even after doing that, MPEG Streamclip still says it doesn't have all the QuickTime stuff it needs. So, I gave up on that option. At this point, I had no other ideas for a free converter that would do the job. If anyone else has any good ideas, I'm all ears. At this point, I just want to do format conversion to a Smugmug-supported HD format and probably trimming. I'll save video editing for later. So if I can't find a free program, I figured I'd have to buy something. I decided to try the free trial of Sony Vegas Move Studio Platinum. Since it's made by Sony, it ought to support my camera files. Sure enough, it does. But, now I have to figure out what format to save it to for Smugmug. I've never seen such a daunting array of choices full of acronyms I have no idea what they mean. To save, I have a choice of 16 formats and each format has a choice of 5-20 video codes and audio codecs and each of those has 5-10 settings within them (compression levels, bit rates, etc...). I really have no idea what a good choice is for Smugmug upload that will preserve as much quality as possible from the original and not be any larger than it needs to be to preserve that quality. My choice of save formats are: AVC/AAC MP4 MPEG-1 MPEG-2 OGG MOV RM SONY AVC/AAC MP4 AVI WAV WMA WMV Given that I'm starting in AVCHD, what should I convert to before uploading to Smugmug? And what video and audio codecs should I use? By my calculations there are several hundred permutations of choices here and I'm hoping for some guidance on what is best. Also, my camera records in 5.1 sound, but I think that's not supported by Smugmug. Does that means I have to do something else to the sound? Man, what a mess. I've never pissed away so much time in my life trying to figure this out. All I'm tryhing to do is get a 45 second HD video up on my site from my brand new Sony camera. I've gotten a low-res MPEG2 version up, but don't know what choices will get a full res 1920x1080 version up.

John,

It would appear that if you load "FFMPEG" on your system, Vegas will recognize it and allow h.264 output. It is freeware. No idea if it will work with the trial version or not. No idea if it supports 1080.

Audio may still be a problem. Will your camcorder record in stereo instead of 5:1? (Audio Mode, page 69 in your manual.)

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/ffmpeg

Originally Posted by ziggy53 John, It would appear that if you load "FFMPEG" on your system, Vegas will recognize it and allow h.264 output. It is freeware. No idea if it will work with the trial version or not. No idea if it supports 1080. Audio may still be a problem. Will your camcorder record in stereo instead of 5:1? (Audio Mode, page 69 in your manual.) http://www.videohelp.com/tools/ffmpeg

I can't find any way to use FFMPEG in Vegas. As best I can find, it's just a command line utility (with support for a zillion formats and codecs), but I haven't found a way to "install" codecs into your system with it. If you see any references to how to use it directly in Vegas, I'd love some pointers.

What I did find is a way to add a lossless, high quality video codec to your system (huffyuv), render using that in Vegas (to a huge file), then take that file and use FFMPEG on it to render to h.264. There's a tutorial describing how to do this here. It's not for the faint of heart and, unfortunately, seems to show how complicated this all can get. What a mess!

Originally Posted by jfriend I can't find any way to use FFMPEG in Vegas. As best I can find, it's just a command line utility (with support for a zillion formats and codecs), but I haven't found a way to "install" codecs into your system with it. If you see any references to how to use it directly in Vegas, I'd love some pointers. What I did find is a way to add a lossless, high quality video codec to your system (huffyuv), render using that in Vegas (to a huge file), then take that file and use FFMPEG on it to render to h.264. There's a tutorial describing how to do this here. It's not for the faint of heart and, unfortunately, seems to show how complicated this all can get. What a mess!

John,

I'm a couple hundred miles from my machine now or I would try some things, even if only on my older version of Vegas, that might give a hint how it works.

The best discussion I can find just now seems to indicate that the FFMPEG might be available to Vegas using the "FFDShow" filter (discussion here):

http://www.videohelp.com/forum/archi...e-t328693.html

FFDShow here:

http://sourceforge.net/project/showf...roup_id=173941

There's a good chance I am not thinking correctly (all those "FFs" start to look the same.) Hopefully, there is an answer here somewhere.

Originally Posted by jfriend I can't find any way to use FFMPEG in Vegas. As best I can find, it's just a command line utility (with support for a zillion formats and codecs), but I haven't found a way to "install" codecs into your system with it. If you see any references to how to use it directly in Vegas, I'd love some pointers. What I did find is a way to add a lossless, high quality video codec to your system (huffyuv), render using that in Vegas (to a huge file), then take that file and use FFMPEG on it to render to h.264. There's a tutorial describing how to do this here. It's not for the faint of heart and, unfortunately, seems to show how complicated this all can get. What a mess!

Well, I did finally succeed in getting what I wanted up onto Smugmug. Here's what I had to do (I still think there has to be a better way):

1. Install the Huffuv 2.1.1 lossless codec from here.
2. Right click on the .INF file in that codec and pick install. This installs the codec into Windows (which then makes it available in Sony Vegas)
3. Open my video in Sony Vegas
4. Select Render As, select .AVI as the file type and pick a bunch of options as described here in step 3 here. Note that the steps 4-6 in that same article didn't work for me. FFMPEG just crashed on me everytime, so I ended up using Super (described below). For the purposes of this workflow, just read step 3 in that article.
5. Save this file out as an uncompressed AVI
6. Now download and install Super which is a Windows GUI on top of a bunch of different converters (FFMPEG among them).
7. Open Super and pick MOV output container, H.264/AVC output video codec, AAC output audio codec, 1280x720, 16x9, stretch to fill, AAC as the audio codec, set the output directory to the same directory as the source file, pick the uncompressed AVI file we previously generated and tell it to Encode.
8. Finally I ended up with a 1280x720 H.264 video file that Smugmug can read. Curiously, my end file was only 1/4 the size of my previous attempts and it looked just as good so that's good for upload time too. Perhaps that's because of how good the H.264 compression is.

So anyway, I wouldn't say I'm pleased with all the steps of the workflow and heaven knows this is certainly not something most people can figure out how to do, but I at least know how to get a video up online now.

The bugaboo seems to be that neither Smugmug nor any of the free converters can read the Sony AVCHD out of the camera. I wonder why that is?

Originally Posted by jfriend ... The bugaboo seems to be that neither Smugmug nor any of the free converters can read the Sony AVCHD out of the camera. I wonder why that is?

If I understand the current situation, the Sony variant of AVCHD that is used in the HDR-SR12 is simply different enough that many of the current software cannot properly "decode" the source video. Likewise, you can not take a Sony AVCHD file and load it into a Panasonic camcorder with AVCHD and expect it to play.

It appears that each manufacturer is able to design their own "tweeks" into their own products, making the resulting files incompatible.

There is a wiki about AVCHD that might help to understand the format, but it does not get into the differences between the "dialects" of the same format:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD

I have the complete Adobe Suite and have been using Flash Video Encoder to make FLVs with On2 VP6 and getting great results. I just did one this morning that was a 600mb DV format 29.97fps @ 640x480, and the FLV ended up at 18mb and looks great. Unfortunatelly, SmugMug doesn't accept FLV. I compressed the same file in QTpro with H.264 and the file ended up being 213mb and didn't look as good (got to figure out interlacing issue in QTpro). This could be due to audio codec, as I don't knwo them as well as video.

I'm new to the forum and will dig around to find out what other people have been using.

Hi, we do accept flv!:

http://wiki.smugmug.net/display/SmugMug/Video+Formats

Originally Posted by cfurlong I have the complete Adobe Suite and have been using Flash Video Encoder to make FLVs with On2 VP6 and getting great results. I just did one this morning that was a 600mb DV format 29.97fps @ 640x480, and the FLV ended up at 18mb and looks great. Unfortunatelly, SmugMug doesn't accept FLV. I compressed the same file in QTpro with H.264 and the file ended up being 213mb and didn't look as good (got to figure out interlacing issue in QTpro). This could be due to audio codec, as I don't knwo them as well as video. I'm new to the forum and will dig around to find out what other people have been using.

Originally Posted by phototristan Hi, we do accept flv!: http://wiki.smugmug.net/display/SmugMug/Video+Formats

Ah...I see the problem now...the file is only 18mb, but it's over 2.5 minutes long. Strange requirement by the way. Doesn't seem like the length of a movie would matter, just the file size. Oh well, I'll keep using Ning for music videos ;-(

We use length because it's a bit easier to understand for many.

When I shoot a video clip with my video camera, I really have no idea how large the file is going to be, but I always know how long it is. Also, a video can grow and shrink in file size depending upon many factors such as video compression, audio bit rate, etc, etc. Whereas the length of the video is a constant.

Every time I try to convert a 1920x1080 mpg file to h.264 in Super the sound ends up out-of-sync with the video. This is becoming a real problem for me because some of my videos are too large to upload to Smugmug. When Smugmug does the automatic conversion post-upload it stays synched; I can't explain or fix it.

Originally Posted by phototristan We use length because it's a bit easier to understand for many. When I shoot a video clip with my video camera, I really have no idea how large the file is going to be, but I always know how long it is. Also, a video can grow and shrink in file size depending upon many factors such as video compression, audio bit rate, etc, etc. Whereas the length of the video is a constant.

Exactly...as codecs improve, file sizes are going to get smaller as video quality goes up. If the restriction is based on storage, better codecs should allow us to have longer videos with less storage. As technology in general improves, longer videos at higher qualities will be easier to stream, but 2.5 minutes will always be 2.5 minutes, so we won't benefit from new technology or techniques.

I've just never seen storage limits based on time. Wierd convention IMO.

Many if not most other video sites certainly do have time requirements. Flickr limits you to 90 seconds, YouTube is 10 minutes as examples.

Originally Posted by cfurlong I've just never seen storage limits based on time. Wierd convention IMO.

Originally Posted by JDSX Every time I try to convert a 1920x1080 mpg file to h.264 in Super the sound ends up out-of-sync with the video. This is becoming a real problem for me because some of my videos are too large to upload to Smugmug. When Smugmug does the automatic conversion post-upload it stays synched; I can't explain or fix it.

What are your settings for Super?

Make sure the video (green) Frames/sec is 29.97.

When I convert from .avi to .m4v using Quicktime Pro (Export > to iPod, w/default settings), why do my files get bigger? Case in point - a 35 minute movie was 350mb as the .avi, after conversion to .m4v, it was over 450mb. That is a really big increase.

What gives? Also, QT won't let me alter the default settings when I select "to ipod" (all grayed out).