Colorado Skiing photographs

boulderNardo · January 15, 2008

Was out skiing today (and every day for the past month

) with some friends and took some pictures with my 20D & 70-200 2.8L... Would appreciate some feedback and comments, I'm really trying to improve the quality of my photographs. I'm still having a little bit of trouble getting a dead-on focus on the skier, I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

These have been post-processed & cropped in Lightroom:

leaforte · January 16, 2008

Got to love the steep and deep. I can only wish for some of that sweet Rocky Mountain powder. I'm stuck with wet Cascade concrete. But it works!

kdog · January 16, 2008

Man, that's some skiing.

I was at Vail and Beaver Creek last Sunday and Monday and it looked just like that.

Couple things -- are you using AI Servo mode? You should be in those motion shots, especially with the skier coming directly at or away from you.

Also, your EXIF info shows you were shooting wide-open at F2.8. Is that correct? If so, I think you're asking for way too much AF accuracy in those motion shots. Try a wider DOF by stopping down to F8 or so. You'll probably need to boost your ISO to 400 to compensate, but such is life.

Cheers,
-joel

boulderNardo · January 16, 2008

wow, thanks so much for the quick replies guys!
joel, pics are actually taken in the Vail back country area today... tons of good snow, steep slopes, and huge cliff drops

That's correct, I'm using AI Servo, I pick the center AF point and keep that one centered on the skiers head/chest. Also correct that I've been shooting wide open at f/2.8 - I really want to get focus on the skier and totally blur the background out, and would rather not do a manual PP blurring of the background. I'm going back out tomorrow and I was even thinking of taking my 50mm f/1.4 and shooting at around f/1.8 to get even more background blur, but then I guess focus is going to be even more of an issue.

My worry and question is mostly, is it normal that my photos are not 100% on focus given the conditions and aperture, or am I just doing something fundamentally wrong? (i.e., I'm shooting off hand, no tripod, but ISO set to 200 I was able to shoot around 1/1000th shutter).

I'll try closing down the aperture to 5.6 tomorrow and bump the ISO to 400 (no problem there, the 20D can handle 400 pretty noise-free).

-bernardo

kdog · January 16, 2008

Yeah, my honest opinion is that the 20D's AF isn't accurate enough to get the shallow DOF you want, with that much skier motion. There's a reason that serious sports shooters use the pro bodies, like the Mark 1DIIn, or Mark III.

Good luck shooting tomorrow. Expected high temperature is 0F.

Cheers,
-joel

shirk · January 16, 2008

Got cahnge for a nickle?

Brett needs to smile more.

rwells · January 16, 2008

bernardo,

I've shot a lot of things going fast (and erratic) with a 20D, 30D, 1DMkII, I don't think it's the camera/lens combo unless it does this with stationary subjects too.

I understand these are cropped. What I suspect is the issue, is that your center focus point is not on your subject when you take the shot. That's real easy to do on fast moving targets. One of my pet peeves with Canon is that they won't make the active focus points stay lit while tracking your subject. The 1Dxx series does this and makes it MUCH easier to stay on target.

Others on this board have had similar issues, and swore up and down that their focus was on their subject. I suggested that they pull up their images in Canon's EX Browser software that comes with the cameras. It has a button that will allow the active focus point to be displayed on your image. That way you know for sure if that's an issue or not. If it is, then work on that harder, if it's not, then you've eliminated that from your problem solving process.

I'm guessing that's what's at play here.

I could be wrong...I was once before, but I've learned to live with her for 29 years so far

boulderNardo · January 17, 2008

shirk wrote:

Got cahnge for a nickle?

Brett needs to smile more.

haha awesome, maggots are everywhere

kdog - I've seen amazingly crisp action shots made with a 20D/30D and similar lens setup. I've been messing around with it inside this evening, and it seems like I can get slightly sharper images with no motion, but the images are still not as razor sharp as some other images I've seen made with a similar setup. Wondering if it's my camera - I already sent the 70-200 lens in to Canon for repair a few months ago, I suspected front focusing issues and they did some fixes.

Anyway, tried again today - it was indeed freezing cold! We went north of Vail today out in the back country again, lots of jumping, here's some pics:

Again, please lots of C&C, feedback, whatever, just help me improve guys

Some of the photographs shot at f/5.6 are significantly sharper than the ones shot at 2.8 (albeit still not perfect!).

-bernardo

boulderNardo · January 18, 2008

bump? ... anyone? CC really appreciated...

kdog · January 18, 2008

Great set, Bernado!!

Really super action.

I'm not really seeing any focus problems in these shots that you posted. Maybe you have others that didn't come out so well, and I'd probably blame those on the inconsistent focus of the 20D.

However, and I'm no expert, but I do feel that your shots could benefit from some post-processing. I spent about one minute on one of your images, adjusting levels and midpoint a bit, a touch of local contrast enhancement, and just a bit more sharpening. Let me know what you think.

Edited:

Your original:

Cheers,
-joel

boulderNardo · January 18, 2008

WOW! Thanks so much, joel!
What a HUGE improvement, thanks so much! I still have a lot to learn about PP, I'm using Photoshop Lightroom and just got Scott Kelby's book to learn more about post processing ...

As for the focus problems ... I might be expecting too much from action shots I guess. These shots are, however, the sharpest of the series and like you said I left the less sharp ones out.

thanks for the comments!

creekboy · January 18, 2008

boulderNardo wrote:

bump? ... anyone? CC really appreciated...

Japan Maggots in the house :ivar

Those pics are sick!!!You guys are rippin that powder mate. Love it

Would like to get a camera bag for my D80, and learn how to take decent shots first, and get some of us gettin resort powder and some slack/backcountry. Keep up the good work!

SitterS · January 18, 2008

Caught some great skiing action here. Went to Breckenridge right after Christmas for a few days. My son and husband went skiing but my four year old wanted nothing to do with the cold...and it was cold! Bellied up to the bar and just kept warm.

I have that same lens and f4 seems to work well for me when shooting sports. AI Servo as well always for action shots. Hope to get back up soon for some shots of my own. Thanks for sharing

Shane

boulderNardo · January 18, 2008

creekboy wrote:

Japan Maggots in the house :ivar

Those pics are sick!!!You guys are rippin that powder mate. Love it Would like to get a camera bag for my D80, and learn how to take decent shots first, and get some of us gettin resort powder and some slack/backcountry. Keep up the good work!

Haha that's just awesome, maggots everywhere

For skiing (& biking, climbing, hiking, etc.) I *highly* recommend a chest pack like the LowePro TopLoader 75AW ... your chest is the absolutely safest spot for the camera IMO - at least in my case, jumping off 50ft cliffs, at times I land too far back and smash my backpack...

SitterS wrote:

Caught some great skiing action here. Went to Breckenridge right after Christmas for a few days. My son and husband went skiing but my four year old wanted nothing to do with the cold...and it was cold! Bellied up to the bar and just kept warm.

I have that same lens and f4 seems to work well for me when shooting sports. AI Servo as well always for action shots. Hope to get back up soon for some shots of my own. Thanks for sharing

Shane

Thanks for the good words, Shane!
I'll try shooting at f/4 more - I used to shoot at f/2.8 but just couldn't get a sharp shot, some of these shots were taken at f/5.6 and are much sharper, but I'd really like to have more background blur. Def shooting in AI Servo all the time, however I wonder, do you and other action sports photographer always shoot in "Continous" mode or single frame mode? I wonder (and I'm goin to try on my next shoot) whether I can shoot in single frame, watching the skier more, trying to predict the best timing for the best shot rather than relying on getting one lucky shot out of 20 burst shots.

kdog wrote:

...[postprocessing]...

I did some PP myself in Lightroom, trying to reproduce your PP'ed image. How does this look?

-bernardo

kdog · January 18, 2008

Perfect!!

Looks better than mine in fact.

:uhoh You learn fast, grasshopper.

Now get to work on the rest of them. :whip

Next time I'm out that way, I want to go skiing with you guys. I'll get a shot of you jumping off a 50' cliff with your toploader on.

Cheers,
-joel

boulderNardo · January 18, 2008

kdog wrote:

Perfect!!

Looks better than mine in fact. :uhoh You learn fast, grasshopper. Now get to work on the rest of them. :whip

Haha thanks so much!! I was afraid I might have blown the highlights compared to yours... Scott Kelby's Lightroom book is good learning material though

kdog wrote:

Next time I'm out that way, I want to go skiing with you guys. I'll get a shot of you jumping off a 50' cliff with your toploader on.

Cheers,
-joel

That's a deal! Didn't quite do 50ft, but you get my point

I definitely wouldn't worry about my camera in the toploader jumping that big... In any case, Pm me whenever you head out here, you're most welcome to join us for some back country skiing fun!

... AND you can probably sell the shot to LowePro as advertisement for the Toploader

-bernardo

SitterS · January 18, 2008

I shoot in continous mode/AI servo with sports and one shot with portraits. F4 just seems to work well for me and still gives me the amount of background blur that I like. I have had no luck with 2.8 and action shots. Maybe it is just me but I rarely get a focused shot. I also use center point with action shots as well. Sometimes I will change the focus points but mostly center. Good luck with your shots.

Funny thing is when I lived in SC (single/no kids...makes a difference) I flew all over skiing. Moved to Denver 8 years ago and haven't been skiing once. My son is turning out to be a natural at it. Damn expensive sport...that is for sure.

Shane

boulderNardo · January 18, 2008

Last bump, I hate to do this, but I just spent a few hours fixing all these pics so I'm reposting the PP'ed versions right here:

-bernardo

Onrey · January 19, 2008

Bernardo, I just thought of one thing nobody else has mentioned that you may want to double check concearning your focus issue...sometimes is so obvious you dont even think about it....Check you dioptic focus(its a little wheel near your eye piece) Sometimes mine gets turned while taking it out or putting it in my camera bag. Just a little bit off and none of your photos will be as sharp as you think they should, Its happend to me several times, on one occassion after nearly 200 photo's into a horse show and not being as sharp as I needed, It doned on me to check it, sure nuff..small quick adjustment and HEY SHARP PHOTOS again... just a thought...good luck.

boulderNardo · January 19, 2008

Onrey wrote:

Bernardo, I just thought of one thing nobody else has mentioned that you may want to double check concearning your focus issue...sometimes is so obvious you dont even think about it....Check you dioptic focus(its a little wheel near your eye piece) Sometimes mine gets turned while taking it out or putting it in my camera bag. Just a little bit off and none of your photos will be as sharp as you think they should, Its happend to me several times, on one occassion after nearly 200 photo's into a horse show and not being as sharp as I needed, It doned on me to check it, sure nuff..small quick adjustment and HEY SHARP PHOTOS again... just a thought...good luck.

hey, thanks for the idea!
question is ... the dioptic adjustment shouldn't affect focus in AF mode. Yes, when shooting in Manual Focus it would make a difference, but the stock viewfinder in a 20D is just not good enough to shoot MF anyway. So I don't see how the dioptic adjustment could affect AF ... if the AF system locks on the subject, the subject should be in focus, even though I might perceive it as slightly OOF in the viewfinder. But that's not been my issue as far as I can tell, the pictures look OOF on my computer!

maybe I'm totally missing something?

thanks for the thought!
-bernardo

shirk · January 19, 2008

I just love teh graphics and base on those Moment M1's.

I am still in p&s world with my G7 so I am no help to you, other than to say kepp on shooting and work on it.

On another topic from the focus thing, I prefer images where you see more background than the crops you have. It gives a better perspective of the whole line, you rarely see a tight crop in magazines. The best images show how truely difficult the line is. Also things can be overdone in pshop, beyond what seems natural. Just a few things from a very avid viewer of ski porn

Colorado Skiing photographs

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