ST-E2 trouble

urbanaries · November 17, 2007

I can't seem to get the flashes to fire anytime I'm in portrait orientation with the ST-E2 on my 20D. I can be pointing right at either my 580EX or my 580EXII and both will fire fine when the camera is oriented horizontally, but when I try vertically (either left or right), no dice. I've been careful to keep my hands out of the way of the IR transmitter.

Is there something I'm missing? I've noticed this a lot lately, and decided to test it more seriously this morning, and couldn't get them to fire one time. thoughts?

saurora · November 17, 2007

I bet Pathfinder will be here any minute now!!!

Hang in there Lynn!

pathfinder · November 17, 2007

urbanaries wrote:

I can't seem to get the flashes to fire anytime I'm in portrait orientation with the ST-E2 on my 20D. I can be pointing right at either my 580EX or my 580EXII and both will fire fine when the camera is oriented horizontally, but when I try vertically (either left or right), no dice. I've been careful to keep my hands out of the way of the IR transmitter.

Is there something I'm missing? I've noticed this a lot lately, and decided to test it more seriously this morning, and couldn't get them to fire one time. thoughts?

Lynn,

I have not noted this problem myself, but I saw a post here on dgrin somewhere by someone who was mentioning that fact.

I do not think the light used for communication is polarized, but cannot understand what else would be altered by rotation. I doubt that this is an intermittent electrical malfunction also.

I think this is "positional obstruction" of the beam from the ST-E2. Think of it as a flashlight on top of your camera.

Are you certain that the light from the ST-E2 is not being blocked by the camera body and the lens? I have noticed that sometimes, if the speedlite is to my right, as I face the subject, and the camera has been rotated so that the ST-E2 is on the left side of the camera body, in portrait mode, that the light may fail to trigger properly.

I can verify that this is the case, because when I place my hand in front of the ST-E2, at a 45 degree angle ( and unseen by the camera's lens ), I can bounce the transmission from the ST-E2 to the strobe and achieve successful triggering. I have actually considered using Aluminum foil velcroed to the ST-E2 to do reflect the IR light for this purpose.

Are you using an ST-E2 on the camera and a flash on a wedding shooter's flip bracket? Or is your strobe off camera and some distance in front of your ST-E2? I do not find the ST-E2 works very well with a wedding shooter's flip bracket. I prefer an off shoe camera ETTL cord for that purpose. I suspect using an ST-E2 and a flip bracket depends on reflection from interior walls to succeed ( but that is a guess, not a fact)

One other thing I have considered, when not getting consistent firing is to connect the ST-E2 to the camera via an off shoe ETTL cord, so that the ST-E2 can be pointed DIRECTLY at a remote flash's receiving sensor and not be hidden by a camera and lens body. I am sure this will maximize successful triggering with the ST-E2. I wonder if a little Al foil could be velcroed to the side of the Speedlite's sensor to increase sensitivity also when we are near the distance limits - say 25-30 feet.

If the ST-E2 works normally in landscape mode, I think obstruction of the beam is a more likely explanation of failure to trigger, than an obscure failure of electronic functions as a result of rotation of the ST-E2.

Try bouncing the beam from the ST-E2 using your hand, a mirror, or a piece of white paper and see is that is not the source of your difficulty. Lynn.

We still need to get together and shoot the skyline of Indy down by the canal behind the Indiana Museum.

urbanaries · November 17, 2007

I do not think the light used for communication is polarized, but cannot understand what else would be altered by rotation. I doubt that this is an intermittent electrical malfunction also.

I think this is "positional obstruction" of the beam from the ST-E2. Think of it as a flashlight on top of your camera.

Are you certain that the light from the ST-E2 is not being blocked by the camera body and the lens?

Thanks for your response, PF!!!! I almost Pmed you but figured someone else might benefit from the discussion, but I knew you were the one that would help!!

I tried another round after reading your post, and I just can't figure it out. About 1 of 100 shots in vertical I can get to fire. If I rotate back to horizontal, at about 20 degrees or so I get about 30% firing, so that's better. I don't see what could be obstructing the view that wouldn't be there in landscape orientation. I've got the 17-55 IS on there, and that's not a small lens, but it's my most common one and I need it to work with that.

if the speedlite is to my right, as I face the subject, and the camera has been rotated so that the ST-E2 is on the left side of the camera body, in portrait mode, that the light may fail to trigger properly.

I can't get it to fire even if I'm 6 inches from the speedlight, either rotated left or right.

Are you using an ST-E2 on the camera and a flash on a wedding shooter's flip bracket? Or is your strobe off camera and some distance in front of your ST-E2? I do not find the ST-E2 works very well with a wedding shooter's flip bracket. I prefer an off shoe camera ETTL cord for that purpose. I suspect using an ST-E2 and a flip bracket depends on reflection from interior walls to succeed ( but that is a guess, not a fact)

I have the Transmitter directly on the camera shoe, no bracket or cord. My 580s are on lightstands.

One other thing I have considered, when not getting consistent firing is to connect the ST-E2 to the camera via an off shoe ETTL cord, so that the ST-E2 can be pointed DIRECTLY at a remote flash's receiving sensor and not be hidden by a camera and lens body. I am sure this will maximize successful triggering with the ST-E2. I wonder if a little Al foil could be velcroed to the side of the Speedlite's sensor to increase sensitivity also when we are near the distance limits - say 25-30 feet.

hmm, I haven't tried with the off shoe cord, I'll have to dig mine out and try that.

If the ST-E2 works normally in landscape mode, I think obstruction of the beam is a more likely explanation of failure to trigger, than an obscure failure of electronic functions as a result of rotation of the ST-E2.

Try bouncing the beam from the ST-E2 using your hand, a mirror, or a piece of white paper and see is that is not the source of your difficulty. Lynn.

Well, if I can't get it to fire while directly shooting at the Speedlite's sensor? But I did just try again using a mirror. horizontal fine, vertical no. This is really annoying!

We still need to get together and shoot the skyline of Indy down by the canal behind the Indiana Museum.

We definitely do! Make sure you bring Chris along. I'm going downtown for some night shooting tonight! I'll have to shoot everything horizontally though until i can figure out what's up!

LiquidAir · November 17, 2007

The first thing I try when having trouble with the ST-E2 is replacing the battery. There have been several times when I have been

about unreliable behavior and a low battery has been at fault. Other than that, portrait orientation puts stress on the hot shoe which can pull the contacts apart. Try pressing the ST-E2 into the shoe to see if that improves the connections.

urbanaries · November 17, 2007

LiquidAir wrote:

The first thing I try when having trouble with the ST-E2 is replacing the battery. There have been several times when I have been about unreliable behavior and a low battery has been at fault. Other than that, portrait orientation puts stress on the hot shoe which can pull the contacts apart. Try pressing the ST-E2 into the shoe to see if that improves the connections.

By gollee, you were on to something. I cleaned the contacts on the transmitter with an eraser and it FIRES!!!! WOOHOO!!! thanks Kenneth!

clap

(And yeah, it drives me nuts there's no battery life indicators in any of the speedlites)

Labman · November 17, 2007

As My dad always told me

urbanaries wrote:

By gollee, you were on to something. I cleaned the contacts on the transmitter with an eraser and it FIRES!!!! WOOHOO!!! thanks Kenneth!clap

(And yeah, it drives me nuts there's no battery life indicators in any of the speedlites)

Always try the simplest things 1st!

though I often forget that rule too lol!!! But glad it was a simple solution. :ivar Some day I hope to be half as good as most the people here.

pathfinder · November 17, 2007

Glad you got things figured out.

Batteries, why didn't I think of that

LiquidAir · November 17, 2007

urbanaries wrote:

By gollee, you were on to something. I cleaned the contacts on the transmitter with an eraser and it FIRES!!!! WOOHOO!!! thanks Kenneth!clap

(And yeah, it drives me nuts there's no battery life indicators in any of the speedlites)

Sweet!

You have no idea how many times I have set up the lights and they don't fire. Or one doesn't fire. Or something. I am working on my consistancy, but its not where I want it to be...

Oh, btw, call me Ken.

urbanaries · November 20, 2007

Update:

While the Transmitter is working ok for the time being, the issues indicated a much larger problem than I feared! My fear before was that I might need a new transmitter. But then I remembered my issue with Speedlite attached directly to the camera three weeks ago at a wedding (yes, it's not an urban myth...ALL mechanical failures will happen at someone's wedding, and not when you're photographing your child eating cereal). 99% of the shots I took that day were either off camera flash or natural light, with no issues except the intermittent vertical ST-E2 firing fails. But during a few nighttime outdoor shots with speedlite on camera, the background would expose properly but the subject would overexpose by several stops, to the point of being completely blown. I asked around and others had that problem when the speedlite wasn't "seated" properly so I chalked it up to me being to hurried and not mounting the new speedlite right (the new 580EX II has a much different locking mechanism). I didn't have any success recreating the problem at home, of course, so I thought -- end of story.

Then last night, I had an outdoor session where I wanted to use fill flash, so I mounted the 580II with extreme care. Luckily it was overcast so the popup was plenty of power to get a hint of light in the eyes. The same issue, subject completely blown even with -2 FEC. Only this time I took notice that it was every shot in vertical orientation and about half that were in landscape. Fishy? Yeah. I looked closer and when I put the camera in horizontal, the weight of the 580 actually pulled the entire hotshoe slightly away from my camera.

I have a Mack warranty still in effect, and I am waiting to hear if this is a covered repair. Otherwise I'll be getting a new primary body sooner than I had hoped! :cry

All of these issues seem to coincide with me getting the new 580EX, which is really strange. I didn't think it was that much heavier? Or is the metal hot shoe a factor? Or simply wear and tear (the camera is about 20 months old.)

LiquidAir · November 20, 2007

Every once in a while when I first set up my strobe, the ETTL-2 metering refuses to work. I am not completely sure what triggers it, but I think it may have something to do with switching in and out of slave mode. Sometimes just switching the slave/master switch back and forth fixes the problem. Otherwise, flip the master/slave switch to off, power the strobe off, and take the batteries out for 30 seconds. One way or the other, always chimp the first couple of shots after turning on the flash.

urbanaries · November 20, 2007

LiquidAir wrote:

Every once in a while when I first set up my strobe, the ETTL-2 metering refuses to work. I am not completely sure what triggers it, but I think it may have something to do with switching in and out of slave mode. Sometimes just switching the slave/master switch back and forth fixes the problem. Otherwise, flip the master/slave switch to off, power the strobe off, and take the batteries out for 30 seconds. One way or the other, always chimp the first couple of shots after turning on the flash.

I get what you're saying, and I agree the slave mode might have something to do with it. With the old 580 it was much easier/more obvious which mode it was in with the new one, so I confess I don't check as regularly as before because it doesn't jump out at me.

But is the entire hot shoe supposed to come away from the camera a few millimeters???? Is that normal motion?

LiquidAir · November 20, 2007

Hmmm. I just got my 580EX II and I don't think it has yet been in the hot shoe on my camera (lots of use off camera though). When I get home, I'll take a look at it. I have a 5D which doesn't have a built in flash, so its possible the connection will be a bit different on my camera.

pathfinder · November 20, 2007

urbanaries wrote:

I get what you're saying, and I agree the slave mode might have something to do with it. With the old 580 it was much easier/more obvious which mode it was in with the new one, so I confess I don't check as regularly as before because it doesn't jump out at me.

But is the entire hot shoe supposed to come away from the camera a few millimeters???? Is that normal motion?

The hot shoe on my 20D is rock solid, Lynn. It does not move.

You are right, the higher weight of the 580ex II might create problems in portrait mode .

I think I would use an off shoe cord with a bracket, rather than mounting the 580exII in the hot shoe and then rotating the camera to portrait mode.

urbanaries · November 20, 2007

pathfinder wrote:

The hot shoe on my 20D is rock solid, Lynn. It does not move.

You are right, the higher weight of the 580ex II might create problems in portrait mode .

I think I would use an off shoe cord with a bracket, rather than mounting the 580exII in the hot shoe and then rotating the camera to portrait mode.

The shoe itself is decidedly loose, like it needs tightened. I do feel like the issues directly coincide with my purchase of the 580EX II three weeks ago, which is unsettling. If I press REALLY hard down on 580EXI mounted to camera it will fire properly, otherwise not at all. 580EXII is still shooting entirely white frames. The off camera solution may work today but the potential disaster isn't a risk I can take given my shooting situations. Off to the repair shop...or relegated to a 'natural light' backup I'm afraid. :cry

ST-E2 trouble

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