Some Exposure Settings with the Vivitar 285HV

pathfinder · August 29, 2007

I have been reading the Strobist blog on and off over the past year, and finally decided to drink the Kool Aid. The Strobist website is devoted to learning the use of small battery powered speedlites, entirely off camera, to create professionally lit images without the use of studio type strobe lighting.

I ordered the recommended Vivitar 285HV speedlite, as well as the 42 inch white umbrella, light stand, and triggered the speedlite with my set of PWs.
I decided to set up an exposure table for future reference. My initial area is indoors in my garage, where the ambient light at ISO 100 gives an exposure of about 4 seconds at f 8 - in other words, ambient lighting is not significant, relative to the flash lighting.

The Vivitar285HV is a manual speedlite( made in India) that is powered by four AA batteries. It has a lens array over the front of the flash tube that can be configured for a wide angle spread of light, a normal angle of light, or a tele angle of lighting display. For my first trial, I set the 285HV on a stand pointing directly at the subject, without an umbrella, and configured the flash in the wide setting at 1/4 power. I measured the exposure with a Sekonic 358 in the incident flash mode, triggering the flash with the Sekonic 358 flash meter itself.

ISO 100 1/100th sec Wide setting Direct flash 1/4 Power - No Umbrella
2.8 feet f 13 About 2/3 stop less than direct sunlight
4 feet f 9
5.6 feet f 6.3
8 feet f 5.0
10 feet f 4.0
Next, I set the speedlite lens to the Wide setting and repeated my measurements.

ISO 100 1/100th Tele setting Direct Flash 1/4 Power - No umbrella
2.8 feet f 14
4 feet f 11
5.6 feet f 9
8 feet f6.3
10 feet f 5.0

Next, I set the speedlite to 1/16th power - a very efficient use of the batteries, that does not drain the speedlite’s capacitor much at all.

ISO 100 1/100th Wide setting Direct Flash 1/16th PowerNo umbrella
2.8 feet f 6.3
4 feet f 4.5
5.6 feet f3.2
8 feet f 2.2

I next set the 285HV, to the wide setting at 1/16th power using direct flash

ISO 100 1/100th Tele setting Direct Flash 1/16th PowerNo umbrella
2.8 feet f 7.1
4 feet f 5.6
5.6 feet f 4
8 feet f 2.8

Having measured the output with direct flash, the next step was to measure the output of the 285HV when bounced into the double folding 42 inch white lined umbrella rec’d by The Strobist.

ISO 100 1/100th Wide into Umbrella 1/16th Power
2.8 feet f 2.8
4 feet f 2.2
5.6 feet f 1.6
8 feet f 1.3
Changing the lens setting from Wide to Tele, actually yielded less light.

ISO 100 1/100th Tele into Umbrella 1/16th Power
4 feet f 1.6
5.6 feet f 1.3
8 feet f 1.1

Apparently, using 1/16th power into the umbrella at ISO 100 will not be very useful, but at full power another picture comes into view

ISO 100 1/100th Tele into Umbrella Full Power !!
3 feet f9 Brighter than shade
4 feet f 6.3 Brighter than shade
5.6 feet f 5.0
8 feet f 4
10 feet f 3.6

With the 285HV set up with the normal lens in front of the flash tube we get the following

ISO 100 1/100th Normal into Umbrella Full Power!!
3 feet f9
4 feet f6.3
5.6 feet f 5
8 feet f 4
10 feet f 3.6
Lastly, I tried the 285HV at 1/2 power using the normal setting into the umbrella. The distance to the subject is from the apex of the umbrella

ISO 100 1/100th Normal into Umbrella 1/2 Power
3 feet f 7.1
4 feet f 5.6
5.6 feet f 4
8 feet f 3.2
10 feet f 2.8

It looks like the umbrella will be more useful indoors, than outside in direct sunlight.

For my last set of readings, I decided to use full power direct flash, to see how this would compare to an exposure in direct sunlight. If we want to balance direct sunlight, or use sunlight as fill, then we need higher light intensities than sunny 16 , which is f16 at 1/100th for ISO 100 in direct sunlight with no clouds. It turns out this is a very useful table!

ISO 100 1/100th Normalsetting Direct Flash 1/2 Power
2.8 feet f22 This is one stop brighter than sunlight!!
4 feet f16 Equal to direct sunlight
5.6 feet f11 one stop less than direct sun
8 feet f 8 2 stops less than direct sun
11 feet f5.6

And finally - full power direct flash normal setting will blow sunlight away......

ISO 100 1/100th Normal setting Direct Flash Full Power -- Pedal to the Metal
2.8 feet f 32 3 stops brighter than sun
3 feet f 29
4 feet f 22
5.5 feet f 14 Slightly less than full sunlight
8 feet f 10
11 feet f 8

So what have we learned from this exercise? The 285HV has sufficient power to overlight sunlight by at least one full stop with the flash 4 feet from the subject, or 2 stops with the flash 3 feet from the subject. Counter lighting here we come!

BenA2 · August 30, 2007

Hey Pathfinder,

After initially being inspired by you to pursue off-camera flash (following your hall-of-fame-qualifying Christmas post) I quickly found Strobist and started drinking the Kool Aid immediately. You might notice my avitar is currently a straight copy of one of David's shots. I'm currently participating in the Lighting102 workshop. Anyway...

Wow, excellent data. Thanks for posting this. I can see myself using this as a reference frequently in the future.

A couple of questions, though:

1) Why did you decide to buy the Vivitar given your existing assortmant of Canon flashes? Personally, I've just been using two 430EX speedlites (which I understand to have about the same power as the 285s) and triggering them with the ST-E2. Of course, I'll admit I haven't been doing anything in sunlight yet.

2) What are you using to trigger the 285, your Pocket Wizards? I keep thinking I might go for the Cactus V2s, but the ST-E2 has yet to fail me.

Again, thanks for the great info.

ziggy53 · August 30, 2007

I have 3 - Vivitar 285HVs
1 - Vivitar 285
2 - Vivitar 283s

and those little lights are tremendously useful. The Wein Peanut slaves plug right in to make them optical slaves so you can use them for quick and easy background lights or hair/rim lights.

The 283s are easily modified to allow almost stepless output control.

http://www.hiviz.com/activities/guidebook/sensor.pdf

pathfinder · August 30, 2007

BenA2 wrote:

Hey Pathfinder,

After initially being inspired by you to pursue off-camera flash (following your hall-of-fame-qualifying Christmas post) I quickly found Strobist and started drinking the Kool Aid immediately. You might notice my avitar is currently a straight copy of one of David's shots. I'm currently participating in the Lighting102 workshop. Anyway...

Wow, excellent data. Thanks for posting this. I can see myself using this as a reference frequently in the future.

A couple of questions, though:

1) Why did you decide to buy the Vivitar given your existing assortmant of Canon flashes? Personally, I've just been using two 430EX speedlites (which I understand to have about the same power as the 285s) and triggering them with the ST-E2. Of course, I'll admit I haven't been doing anything in sunlight yet.

The answer to this question is rather complex. As you say, I already owned a couple EOS strobes and an ST-E2, but there are folks who say they do not work very well out of doors. That has not been my experience generally, but if the flashes are behind the shooter out of doors, then the ST-E2 will frequently fail to trigger. This can be dealt with by using an Off SHoe ETTL cord and aiming the ST-E2 backwards at the strobes, but this is no longer easy and convenient and easy and conveient counts a lot with me.

I also own PWs, but they are not as convenient to use with EOS strobes either, requiring a special hotshoe with PC cord or some such.

I also wanted to see how well the Cactus V2 triggers work. My Cactus V2 trigger does work, but seems to have a shorter range indoors than my ST-E2. I am considering adding a 6 inch antennea to it as shown on the blog over at the Strobist.

Finaly, the answer came down to I wanted a seperate, small, convenient package to grab, that did not require constant reconfiguring to work either with the ST-E2 or the Cactus V2s, or my PWs. By purchasing the Strobist Kit I have a small, easily carried setup with light stand, umbrella, and radio triggers with the Vivitar 285HV packed and ready to go. This allows me to keep an EOS flash and an ST-E2 in my backpack to that I can use either system depending on my needs at the time.

Finally, there is very little in shooting a DSLR that can make such an improvement in your images as cheaply as a good external source of soft, controlled, directional color corrected light. The Strobist kit offers all this in a small inexpensive package. The filter gels alone are worth a lot.

2) What are you using to trigger the 285, your Pocket Wizards? I keep thinking I might go for the Cactus V2s, but the ST-E2 has yet to fail me.

The reports for the Cactus V2s seem very favorable. My limited experience is that mine work, but just barely. WIth new batteries I cannot trigger farther than about 10 feet indoors. My ST-E2 blows that away, triggering at least 25 feet away indoors. But other folks seem very pleased - and yes, my batteries are new.

I will continue to use my ST-E2 - I go nowhere without it. I will just add the lightstand, umbrella, 285HV, filters, and triggers to my car kit. I have a few ideas I want to try locally out of doors.

Again, thanks for the great info.

You are welcome - I thought this information might be helpful to others.

I make no guarentee of the accuracy of the exposure data presented above, but my experience with the Sekonic 358 is that it is dead accurate. The tables should get you within 1 stop easily , I would suspect.

SloYerRoll · August 30, 2007

Hey Pathfinder,
Speedlight are great! Like mini nuclear lighting bombs! (a computer in a bunker spins up to life for a second, records thread, then shuts down)
I also own both PW's and the Cactus' remotes.
I like the cactus remotes since they are lightweight and I carry enough stuff when I go to light something.

Here is a great DIY to increase the distance of the "ebay" remotes. If you have steady hands and can solder (you don't have to be a great solderer), this DIY is cake. My findings are that outside I effectively increased the range of my ebay remotes from 20' to well over 300'! If you not good at soldering. The is a post a few posts down from "goffen" that shows you how to do this w/ even less work.

I've also found (along w/ other DIY'ers) that the length of the extension is not as vital as the poster mentioned. But from a physics standpoint, I can understand why he finds this step so vital. This jsut ins't gnats a$$ technology though.

Just random info for anyone looking into bubying strobes. Save your pocket and buy rechargeable batteries. This is a crucial investment unless you want to literally throw money away. I really beat on my strobes and I went through a jumbo pack of AA's in about two months when I first go them.

All the best,
-Jon

BenA2 · August 30, 2007

SloYerRoll wrote:

Save your pocket and buy rechargeable batteries. This is a crucial investment unless you want to literally throw money away. I really beat on my strobes and I went through a jumbo pack of AA's in about two months when I first go them.
-Jon

I'll admit I've been scraping by with Costco jumbo packs of AA's and am starting to tire of it.

Do you recommend any rechargable battaries in particular? What about the charger? My head spins with all the options.

SloYerRoll · August 30, 2007

BenA2 wrote:

Do you recommend any rechargable battaries in particular? What about the charger? My head spins with all the options.

There are TONS of bateries out there.

I strongly recommend Energizer High Energy NIMH (Nickel Metal Hydride) AA's.
They have been great batteriesfor me, and I HAMMER on my strobes.

This is obviously not the end all of batteries. But they are affordable (around 30USD for the 4 batteries and charger kit). And provide reliable alternative to disposables.

The only thing you want to steer clear of are the "15 minute charge time batteries" I don't care how good the technology gets. Betteries will always take and hold a charge better if it is a slow charge. Unless you spend ALLOT of money on batteries that have a finite life.

If you really want to get ALLOT of bang for your buck and want to keep those usltr high speed charge re-cycle times. Then make the switch ofver to the Al Jacobs Black Box. This thing is built like a take and keeps your strobe firing so fast you'll think your gonna melt the plastic shield in front of your strobe!

pathfinder · August 30, 2007

SloYerRoll wrote:

Hey Pathfinder,
Speedlight are great! Like mini nuclear lighting bombs! (a computer in a bunker spins up to life for a second, records thread, then shuts down)
I also own both PW's and the Cactus' remotes.
I like the cactus remotes since they are lightweight and I carry enough stuff when I go to light something.

Here is a great DIY to increase the distance of the "ebay" remotes. If you have steady hands and can solder (you don't have to be a great solderer), this DIY is cake. My findings are that outside I effectively increased the range of my ebay remotes from 20' to well over 300'! If you not good at soldering. The is a post a few posts down from "goffen" that shows you how to do this w/ even less work.

I've also found (along w/ other DIY'ers) that the length of the extension is not as vital as the poster mentioned. But from a physics standpoint, I can understand why he finds this step so vital. This jsut ins't gnats a$$ technology though.

Just random info for anyone looking into bubying strobes. Save your pocket and buy rechargeable batteries. This is a crucial investment unless you want to literally throw money away. I really beat on my strobes and I went through a jumbo pack of AA's in about two months when I first go them.

All the best,
-Jon

I had previously seen threads about adding an antenna to the Cactus V2 transmitter, but your link was much clearer, so I took a few moments this afternoon to add ~ 6 inches of 22 gauge copper wire to the motherboard as per the drawings. My transmitting distance has gone from a mere 6-8 feet to greater than 30 feet. I don't get anwhere near 100 feet, but 30 feet is certainly very useful indeed. Easy Peasy.

Thanks for the encouragement Jon!

For grins, I set up a 550ex for comparison

Full Power Drect Flash Zoom setting at 50 mm 550EX triggered by my Sekonic 358 to a PW ISO set at 100 for all readings

2 feet f 45
2.8 feet f 32
4 feet f 20
5.6 feet f14
8 feet f 10
11 feet f 7.1

This is almost an exact match of the power of the 285HV - interesting isn't it??

At 1/4 power I got these readings.... 550EX direct flash 50mm zoom ISO 100

2.8 feet f11
4 feet f8
5.6 feet f 5.6
8 feet f 4
11 feet f 3.2

And at 1/16th Power 550ex Direct flash ISO 100

2 feet f 8.0
2.8 feet f 5.6
4 feet f 4
5.6 feet f 3.2
8 feet f 2.2
11 feet f 1.6

SloYerRoll · August 30, 2007

pathfinder wrote:

This is almost an exact match of the power of the 285HV - interesting isn't it??

Just goes to show that solid state electronics still can hold up in todays world of micro everything.

I also set my wire up in a crazy grid like contraption that one of my MIT friends showed me for the extra distance. He started explaining it, but he saw my head was about to pop, so he backed off and was just happy it worked.

pathfinder · August 30, 2007

pathfinder wrote:

This is almost an exact match of the power of the 285HV - interesting isn't it??

Makes me think that the limiting factor in Speedlite output is the power in the four AAs they use, and the capacitor they charge. Sort of makes sense!!

SloYerRoll · August 31, 2007

pathfinder wrote:

Makes me think that the limiting factor in Speedlite output is the power in the four AAs they use, and the capacitor they charge. Sort of makes sense!!

I think it's more the capacitors than the energy source that limit the strobe.
Due to the nature of capacitors, they can store then energy provided by it's source (i.e. AA 1.5v). A capacitor that is being supplied by a 1.5v can store more than just 1.5v for discharge.
It probably wouldn't be that tough to swap capacitors so you could use: ISO 100 1/100th Normal setting Direct Flash Full Power @ 11' f32 to overpower dierect sunlight. I'm pretty sure it would totally nuke the strobe after 2 or 3 of those. But that pop would be a BOG OL flash!

As a note to the polar opposite:
The SB-800 takes 5 batteries (this is the DUMBEST thing I think nikon has done in a long time). This flash actually doesn't use 1.5v x 5 in parallel. It uses a resistor to limit the strobes power drain to something like 4.5v. The reason for the extra juice is so this on board battery acts moe like a power pack w/ faster re-cycle times.
RANT: If I wanted faster cycle times, I'd get a power pack! Is there ANYWHERE on the planet that sells 5 or 10 bay battery chargers? jeez freakin louise!
I;m glad I use SB-28's. THey are much more expendable and provide the same ammount of light. So what if they aren't as smart as newer generations. That's why I study this forum. So I can do this w/o being caudled along.

CookieS · December 11, 2007

I too am a strobist lurker, I actually finally got an assignment done BEFORE the deadline,Lighting 102 in the Hard light assigment . In wokring with flash i am very UNmath oriented and find it hard to understand al the distance and ratio talk. This little chart will be helpful for me to rember distances. I have canon and nikon and have the 285HV also, along with a 580 ex and SB600, which is great for CLS, but maybe will work with the hotshoe to PW adapter, ? I tried the Ebay remots, but Unless im close indoors , they have NOT been consitant in the field, I am not techy enough to even try sddering wires and so forth.

But according to your chart, the 2.8 , 5.6 feet ( is the round dial setting on the 285HV ) correct. then the number behind it f 16 is the correct aperature. for the best light exposure. How far away distance, were you standing. at the telephoto setting. and does the relation to feet on the flash ACTUALLY represent the REAL distance to subject for best lighting.
I tend to shoot outdoors with my long zoom 70-200 and trying to gage light falloff for me is tricky.

pathfinder · December 14, 2007

Cookie, I am not sure I entirely understand your questions?

I did not use the dial on the side of the 285HV, I found it rather useless. The only controls I used on the 285HV were to set the strobe to Manual, and I then used the dial on the front of the base below the strobe itself, to turn the light intensity down to 1/2 or 1/4 or 1/8th or whatever.

The distance from the subject to the shooters camera is not relevant, only the distance from the speedlite to the subject. The distance from the camera to the subject does not affect the exposure, as long as the strobe is off camera and not moved.

If the strobe is mounted on the camera, then, of course, the exposure varies as the camera is moved toward and away from the subject. That is one of the beauties of off camera flash, once the exposure is known, the exposure is consistent from frame to frame as long as the subject-flash distance is unchanged. This means you can set your exposure, and then pretty much ignore it, and concentrate on what your subject is doing as you look through the viewfinder.

Some Exposure Settings with the Vivitar 285HV

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