Alien Bees

DavidS · July 18, 2007

I am considering the purchase of a monolight and the Alien Bees B800 is at the top of my list.

How effective are their modeling lights? I see it comes with a 100 watt light with 150 watts optional. I've read that 250 watts is recommended.

On another note, when comparing to other lights, should I use the effective WS or the true WS?

ian408 · July 18, 2007

Modeling lights are a great convenience. I don't know what the right "size" of the lights should be though.

Shane422 · July 19, 2007

You should check out the Paul Buff forums. He answers many of these types of questions there himself. Or listen to the podcast he did for studiolighting.net. Look through their archives. It was one of their first. I have only an AB400 and love it. I don't use the modeling lamps that much though.

ziggy53 · July 20, 2007

Modelling light are terribly important in light positioning, and they are also valuable with visual confirmation on ratios if they "follow" with the power output of the flash. For some types of photography, modelling lights alone can be used for exposure. The thought that 250 watt lights are more preferable over lesser output bulbs has to do with "seeing" the effects of light position and modifier effects more easily.

One complication with high power modelling lights is that they have to shut down or "quench" during the exposure, lest they contribute to the exposure. Using high powered modelling lights in a low power monolight can mean that the modelling lights won't extinguish quickly enough during the exposure and can "poison" the image color slightly. It is best to balance the output of the modelling light against the output of the flash for best results. Follow the manufacturers recommendations as a rule.

There is no industry wide agreement in calculating "effective" watt-seconds, so you should not use it as a comparative measure between manufacturers. Using that measurement within a particular line of product is probably safe enough.

Foot candles and lumens are the only true comparative measures between different manufacturers, but those can vary with the use of particular reflectors, which control light spread.

Predictability and repeatability are just as important as other factors in monolight selection, and a flash meter with better than 1/3 stop accuracy can be used to confirm both of those entities. The digital camera itself can also be used as both a measurement and confirmation tool, when used under carefully controlled circumstances.

I suggest you also look at the "FlashPoint" monolights. I use a pair of Flashpoint II Model 1820 monolights, adding additional battery-powered lights as necessary.

Here is an example of their use in an outdoor setting (two monolights, two portable battery-powered flashes):

dangin · July 20, 2007

ziggy nailed it dead on.

i've used the ab 800s in a studio and found them to be well constructed, consistent, and overall, a really good value. if you're getting a set, i'd strongly recommend gettting some rf remotes like pocket wizards so you can fire them remotely. sync cables can be such a pain...

J Kacey · July 21, 2007

I have a AB 800 and it works great. With the radio slaves/pocketwizards you only need one for the camera and one for one of the Alienbees..... The rest will slave of the one light. Unless other photographers are around with flashes. I've read that as far as the wattage of the modeling lights it's a good idea to use different size bulbs depending on what size of lights you have....AB1600-250 watt, AB800 150 watt, AB400 100 watt for example.
Alienbees just came out with a more powerful strobe line called Zeus might be worth checking out depending on your needs.
Jerry

mdrsteve · July 21, 2007

I'm also very happy with AB800s and haven't really noticed a problem with the strength of the modeling lights. FYI...the Microsync wireless trigger has been working great for me.

DavidS · July 22, 2007

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate all of the help.

Travis · July 24, 2007

Another question on Slaves
I also own a AB800 and love it although I'm still learning to use it effectively. When using sync cords, it fires perfectly; however, I started playing around with having it slave off of my Minolta 360 which is set off camera as a second light. The AB800 fires; however, it appears that it is late and the image is under exposed. Any ideas? TIA>

dangin · July 24, 2007

i would highly advise against relying on the optical triggers on any monolight strobe for syncing unless it's a last resort. most of the shooting you're doing is at shutter speeds of 1/125 or faster. if that's the case. the fraction of a second that it takes for the sensor to be triggered and then to fire the strobe may be too long and not yield the desired results.

sync cables can be purchased or even made for cheap. they're a small price to pay considering you're spending hundreds of $ on a decent monolight.

rf remote triggers (i.e. pocket wizards, quantum radio slave, bowen pulsar, etc.) are what i personally recommend. wireless can be pricey, but not tripping over cables can save you from a lawsuit or loss business.

ziggy53 · July 24, 2007

Travis wrote:

I also own a AB800 and love it although I'm still learning to use it effectively. When using sync cords, it fires perfectly; however, I started playing around with having it slave off of my Minolta 360 which is set off camera as a second light. The AB800 fires; however, it appears that it is late and the image is under exposed. Any ideas? TIA>

I'm betting you have the Minolta 3600HS flash (not familiar with a model "360").

This flash supports the Minolta ADI mode which has a pre-flash. The pre-flash is probably setting off the monolight.

You could purchase a "digital slave" which either ignores the pre-flash or simply delays the flash to compensate (depending on the slave involved).

A good example is the Wein Digital Peanut Slave which plugs in to a PC connection:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/263022-REG/Wein_W940001D_PN_Peanut_Slave_.html

... or the Wein SSL-ED which plugs into a 1/4" socket:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/258161-REG/Wein_W930015D_SSL_ED_Digital_Smart_Slave.html

Alternately, you can place a couple of layers of unexposed but processed negative film over the slave sensor of the monolight to try to reduce its sensitivity to the pre-flash.

A much better way, IMHO, is to run all manual mode, which I don't think possible on the 3600HS but is possible with the 5600HS.

Alternately, just get a manual/auto flash like the Sunpak 383, and use it in manual mode to trigger the monolight.

Travis · July 24, 2007

dangin wrote:

i would highly advise against relying on the optical triggers on any monolight strobe for syncing unless it's a last resort. most of the shooting you're doing is at shutter speeds of 1/125 or faster. if that's the case. the fraction of a second that it takes for the sensor to be triggered and then to fire the strobe may be too long and not yield the desired results.

sync cables can be purchased or even made for cheap. they're a small price to pay considering you're spending hundreds of $ on a decent monolight.

rf remote triggers (i.e. pocket wizards, quantum radio slave, bowen pulsar, etc.) are what i personally recommend. wireless can be pricey, but not tripping over cables can save you from a lawsuit or loss business.

Thanks D. I have sync cables for the AB800 but not for the Minolta flash unit. Funds are a little limited right now for RF or a second strobe so I was trying to improvise.

I can't remember at the moment, but you may have hit on something - it is possible that I was using a shutter speed faster than 1/125 which could cause the delay. Hmmmmm, I'll have to play some more. I appreciate it.

Travis · July 24, 2007

ziggy53 wrote:

I'm betting you have the Minolta 3600HS flash (not familiar with a model "360").

This flash supports the Minolta ADI mode which has a pre-flash. The pre-flash is probably setting off the monolight.

You could purchase a "digital slave" which either ignores the pre-flash or simply delays the flash to compensate (depending on the slave involved).

A good example is the Wein Digital Peanut Slave which plugs in to a PC connection:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/263022-REG/Wein_W940001D_PN_Peanut_Slave_.html

... or the Wein SSL-ED which plugs into a 1/4" socket:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/258161-REG/Wein_W930015D_SSL_ED_Digital_Smart_Slave.html

Alternately, you can place a couple of layers of unexposed but processed negative film over the slave sensor of the monolight to try to reduce its sensitivity to the pre-flash.

A much better way, IMHO, is to run all manual mode, which I don't think possible on the 3600HS but is possible with the 5600HS.

Alternately, just get a manual/auto flash like the Sunpak 383, and use it in manual mode to trigger the monolight.

Ziggy, thanks! I am using the 3600HS and it doesn't have a manual mode. I never took into consideration the pre-flash. I just assumed that it was firing late and not early. I'm going to expriment some more. Luckily, I don't need this to feed myself so I can take my time a learn along the way. Your help is greatly appreciated.

ziggy53 · July 24, 2007

dangin wrote:

i would highly advise against relying on the optical triggers on any monolight strobe for syncing unless it's a last resort. most of the shooting you're doing is at shutter speeds of 1/125 or faster. if that's the case. the fraction of a second that it takes for the sensor to be triggered and then to fire the strobe may be too long and not yield the desired results.

sync cables can be purchased or even made for cheap. they're a small price to pay considering you're spending hundreds of $ on a decent monolight.

rf remote triggers (i.e. pocket wizards, quantum radio slave, bowen pulsar, etc.) are what i personally recommend. wireless can be pricey, but not tripping over cables can save you from a lawsuit or loss business.

I have synced Canon dSLRs, an older Kodak dSLR (DCS 460) and a Minolta A2 digicam, all to their highest sync speed, using the optical slaves of both Bowens and FlashPoint monolights.

In the case of the Minolta A2, I synced up to 1/1000th, where the longer duration of the monolight made it impractical to use. In each case, repeatability with the optical slave was very consistant.

I do agree that in less controlled environments, radio slaved flash is worth every penny.

evoryware · August 7, 2007

Hello, Ziggy, do you use those flashpoints with the Rebel? What, if anything, extra did you need for it to work with the XT? Will the Alienbees RFT1TX transmitter and RFT1RX receiver work with Flashpoints?
Will this render my 580 and 430ex useless?

dangin · August 7, 2007

evoryware wrote:

Hello, Ziggy, do you use those flashpoints with the Rebel? What, if anything, extra did you need for it to work with the XT? Will the Alienbees RFT1TX transmitter and RFT1RX receiver work with Flashpoints?
Will this render my 580 and 430ex useless?

i'm not ziggy, btw...
but if you're referring to adorama flashpoint strobes, they'd work with any camera that you can either connect a sync cable, an on camera flash, or remote transmitter to. they also take a standard 3 prong power cable and a 1/4" sync cable so the alienbees receivers should work on them.

back of flashpoint strobe w/ power adapter on the left and the sync cable connector below it.

ab receiver w/ standard 3 prong cable pass through and sync cable connector; may need an adapter if it's smaller; but they all but give those away.

your on camera flashes are only useless if you break them. i use my sb-800s all the time in conjunction with my big strobes. they're a helluva lot easier to gel, they're by far, more portable, and when i'm not shooting in studio, they have nice homes in my camera bags when traveling outside of the studio.

evoryware · August 7, 2007

Thank you very much for the quick response!

I just addressed ziggy because I believe he has a Rebel.

ziggy53 · August 7, 2007

evoryware wrote:

Hello, Ziggy, do you use those flashpoints with the Rebel? What, if anything, extra did you need for it to work with the XT? Will the Alienbees RFT1TX transmitter and RFT1RX receiver work with Flashpoints?
Will this render my 580 and 430ex useless?

I don't have the AlienBee units, so I can't say for sure they would work. The only complication with the Canon 350D/XT (and I assume several other in the Canon lineup) is that the hot shoe is polarity sensitive. Also, I note that the RF receiver you mention uses AC, and sometimes the receiver unit is sensitive to the input power supply of the flash and RF interference that can occur. I prefer battery operated receivers for that reason.

I have connected the FlashPoint flashes to the XT using a Wein SafeSync and PC-1/4" cord, and they worked pretty well, but not 100% of the time. I found it much more convenient, in a studio environment, to use a small external flash as trigger and the built-in optical slave of the FlashPoint. (The XT has a pre-flash that I have not been able to turn off, so I can't use the on-board flash of the XT for the trigger to an optical slave, unless the shutter speed is set to 1/2 sec or so.)

Outdoors, and in the presense of other cameras with flashes that might trigger the FlashPoints, I use a cheap radio trigger and radio slave.

As for the 580 EX, I believe it has a manual mode, so it can be used for an optical trigger. I am less sure about the 430 EX, but it certainly will still have the same value in your kit that it has now.

Alien Bees

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