The good news: we're working on larger display sizes.

I get to test and, y'know, there are just some images that want to be BIG.

(This one is courtesy Chris Michel.)

There are some issues to think through, most of them having to do with security.

First, watermarks: many people uploaded 800px images for watermarks, designing them to work well with the large display size.

The way we're handing that is to upres them proportionally to fit the larger display sizes, up to 1600px. We have experimented with some of your watermarks and generally they look good (I'll post examples in a sec), but the nature of great photographers is to be great perfectionists.

I don't know any other way to handle this issue besides (a) give a heads-up well in advance; (b) use the upres'd watermarks in the case of people who enable the larger sizes and haven't provided larger watermarks.

Before we address what to do about older galleries (we'll get to that), I'll post some example upres'd watermarks in a few minutes.

Here's a watermark made from a 2000px image. Crisp and clean:

Here's one from a watermark that is 800px. To my eye, it seemed to upres well, no?

Andy doesn't really use this watermark much, but I show it because it's 647 pixels and solid color so it shows more degradation as the sizes get larger:

Without addressing the subject of past galleries yet, how are we doing? Will heads explode about the upres'd watermarks for people who don't upload new ones when this feature rolls out?

Is there some better way to handle it we're not thinking of?

Our plan is to email all pros, be transparent in the forum, leave them messages in their SmugMug accounts, post a news item there, but many people will be caught by surprise anyway.

Okay, on to issue #2: Access control.

The plan is, if anyone has blocked either large or original, keep the larger display sizes off. Otherwise, enable them.

This means that anyone who blocks original will have to proactively turn on larger display sizes to get them to show.

Not addressing past galleries yet, are there problems with this?

Originally Posted by Baldy Without addressing the subject of past galleries yet, how are we doing? Will heads explode about the upres'd watermarks for people who don't upload new ones when this feature rolls out? Is there some better way to handle it we're not thinking of? Our plan is to email all pros, be transparent in the forum, leave them messages in their SmugMug accounts, post a news item there, but many people will be caught by surprise anyway.

So far, so good. They will generally look decent. If anybody ignores the notifications and gets bothered by it, the fix is pretty easy right and totally within their control? Don't they just upload a higher res watermark or disable the XL size?

The only other thing I could think of would be to make the XL size be "opt-in" (e.g. default to off) for existing watermarked galleries. I wouldn't recommend that since I think you want most people to just inherit the new functionality, but that's the only other option I can think of.

Originally Posted by Baldy Okay, on to issue #2: Access control. The plan is, if anyone has blocked either large or original, keep the larger display sizes off. Otherwise, enable them. This means that anyone who blocks original will have to proactively turn on larger display sizes to get them to show. Not addressing past galleries yet, are there problems with this?

This sounds like you're proposing that XL and originals are on the same switch and there's no way to have XL, but not originals. That, it seems will need the opinion of many other pros who protect their originals. XL is a beautiful display size, but obviously it's big enough to make some nice prints from if it's not watermarked.

Are you thinking the XL size is big enough that anyone who blocks originals is, for sure, going to want to block XLs? I'm not sure about that one yet.

Now the plot thickens. Issue #3: past galleries.

The mantras we hope to adhere to are first, do no harm. We know that there will always be people who like it just the way it is.

On the other hand, we want to make it so people who do like the larger image sizes can enable them on older galleries and at a pace where we can actually do it when they ask us to—without messing with new image processing, which is going to get harder.

No one has the compute power and bandwidth to rework 130,000,000 originals across multiple data centers very quickly, especially when you're talking about display copies this big with watermarking. Ow.

We do plan to make the larger display sizes when you upload new images to old galleries and when you replace photos.

If that was the only way in the beginning to generate large photos in old galleries while we made sure all sytems were bullet proof for the 30,000 images we receive an hour now, would the world end?

Would it cause people to delete old albums and re-upload the same photos to new ones? We want to avoid the issue we have now, that when we fall behind on image processing, some people keep uploading the same batch repeatedly, making it harder to catch up.

Your thoughts.

Thanks!
Chris

Originally Posted by jfriend This sounds like you're proposing that XL and originals are on the same switch and there's no way to have XL, but not originals.

Sorry, I should have made this clearer.

Pros will be able to choose which display sizes they want: L, XL, O independently like they do now for L & O.

This brings up a good point, tho. Other account levels can only block O. There may be people who are okay with displaying L but are not comfortable with XL....

Originally Posted by Baldy Here's one from a watermark that is 800px. To my eye, it seemed to upres well, no?

That's not my latest watermark, but I've got no problems with uploading a larger version of my latest to use on XL. I've been watermarking galleries recently with my latest watermark but I'll hold off until XL is released.

As an aside would it be possible to include a site-wide bulk watermarking and zoom thumbs since a) it's frustrating to have to watermark each individual gallery and b) zooming thumbs one at a time is impossible and even with the BZT is annoying since I have to make the gallery private, all thumbs, and originals enabled, BZT it, and then reset the gallery to my default settings.

My concerns with XL is protection mainly. As it stands, I'm not 100% sure that I'd use it, though I probably would. If I did use XL, it'd most certainly be with a fairly intrusive watermark. I don't get a lot of sales by any means, but I get a lot of "Hey can I use your image for free for my book / website / whatever? I'll give you a photo credit of course." type inquiries. (Incidentally the answer is always no you may not use my image for free.) I'd hate to think my XL images would make it more likely that my images would get stolen and used without my permission and/or proper compensation. Alas, if only there was a way to lock down images on the internets.

Originally Posted by Baldy The good news: we're working on larger display sizes. I get to test and, y'know, there are just some images that want to be BIG. (This one is courtesy Chris Michel.)

I was in a computer shop today and opened this thread on a 23" display. The salesperson was awestruck !! as was I . The xl size looked dramatically better than the medium and large on the big display.

I would rather have the default set to off for xl on existing galleries and then manually choose which galleries I want displayed at the new size. I presume that it will be an option to display xl pics for new galleries as are the original and large sizes at present.

Originally Posted by Baldy This brings up a good point, tho. Other account levels can only block O. There may be people who are okay with displaying L but are not comfortable with XL....

Correct. Count me in that group. I don't think you can get very good sized prints with the larges, but if XL is available, people start printing on their own. I only have a power account, so I'd be annoyed. (If need be, I can explain somewhere else why I want to block originals for prints I don't sell.)

Thanks for working through this issue so transparently!

Originally Posted by Baldy Now the plot thickens. Issue #3: past galleries.

I'd like the ability to go to past (mostly recent) galleries and have XL sizes generated.
Are there going to be any new styles that rely on L and/or XL sizes?

Originally Posted by Nimai I'd like the ability to go to past (mostly recent) galleries and have XL sizes generated. Are there going to be any new styles that rely on L and/or XL sizes?

I would love to see an XL option - as states sometimes you just wanna go XL!

I personally do not watermark, but it might be a good idea sure - I can fully understand why someone would want to watermark the larger images. (i just hate seeing them).

Any thoughts to having galleries that allow you to view XL? (say for example, a XL image in the middle, a row of thums below, or above the XL image so that the XL image can go wide.

If I only have ONE image in a gallery, will I be able to set it to if you go to that one gallery (with the ONE image), it displays XL assuming your screen widthe allows? (I HATE scrolling).

Is the XL a preset minumum/max size? Will it be dependent on your screen/browser width? Now, with the new upgrade, if I open up my galleries with a smaller browser window, it automatically sets the photo size to SM small until you open it up wider. WIth the XL work the same?

Will I be able to choose: Originals y/n XL y/n or will it be if I choose not to display originals, that I can't display XL? Are we able to ONLY watermark XL and ororiginals? (never done it, so don't know if this is already possible, and if so - how)

Derek

BTW: I love the idea of XL images!

Originally Posted by Nimai I'd like the ability to go to past (mostly recent) galleries and have XL sizes generated. Are there going to be any new styles that rely on L and/or XL sizes?

We'd plan on doing all photos/galleries. But new ones would have the new sizes generated. And any gallery you add photos to, the whole gallery would get the new sizes added. Older galleries would get new sizes generated, but it would be done by the SmugSorcerers, timeframe, priority etc to be determined.

There would be an expandable, fluid style, SmugMug XL, which would fill your screen with giant photo goodness.

Originally Posted by Andy which would fill your screen with giant photo goodness.

I agree Andy - some photos only look their best when viewed HUGE.

Folks, there will actually be 3 new image sizes: XL, X2 and X3. I posted samples of X3 at the top of this thread. The idea is they smoothly fit your browser window as you enlarge just like the transition between smugmug small and smugmug does now.

We love to watch jaws drop with X3, but the more popular sizes are gonna be L and XL in the beginning because of the monitors people own.

The good news is the new image sizes aren't far off, so we need to get cracking and make sure these issues are nailed and people know.

The bad news is incorporating them into galleries is going to take time because we have to modify all themes. It's gonna mean art, CSS changes, etc. Those changes could take a long time.

Originally Posted by DJKennedy Will I be able to choose: Originals y/n XL y/n

Yes.

Originally Posted by DJKennedy or will it be if I choose not to display originals, that I can't display XL?

No.

Originally Posted by DJKennedy Are we able to ONLY watermark XL and ororiginals?

We don't watermark originals now because we don't want to alter originals. We won't have the option to watermark certain sizes and not others, sorry. That feature would significantly delay the release.