We listened closely to the feedback everyone provided in the last beta thread, and we've got a new release out the door.

There were lots of little changes, but the big ones are a much better, faster page picker, improved comments, and better keyboard navigation.

The goal here is to make sure that this release improves on SmugMug as it is today, and doesn't crash or break browsers. I think we're probably there, which is great, because it means we can finish up v2 that much faster, but let us know.

Please use this new thread to talk about problems with this release rather than the old thread. Feature requests should be made in the feature requests thread or on the wiki - not here please. :)

I think I'm doing something wrong. I can't seem to figure out how to upload photos.

-- New Beta (three buttons -- no "new gallery" button)



-- Smugmug (four buttons -- "new gallery" button)



What am I missing? At first, I thought I wasn't logged in, but I seem to have access to the control panel, etc.

****
idiot. me.

I figured it out; my beta account expired. I somehow competely missed the "sign up" button!

Ah, I see file names been added to the exif popup. At least they're available now.
Thanks
Al

Originally Posted by aktse idiot. me. I figured it out; my beta account expired. I somehow competely missed the "sign up" button!

Actually, we're the idiots. You shouldn't have to pay for a beta account. :)

I think I fixed this. Thanks for the heads-up, and holler if anyone else finds their accounts locked out.

Don

Originally Posted by onethumb Actually, we're the idiots. You shouldn't have to pay for a beta account. :) I think I fixed this. Thanks for the heads-up, and holler if anyone else finds their accounts locked out. Don

I was just in the process of writing to help. I got the e-mail saying that I was actually charged! Shall I continue the e-mail and ask help to reverse the charges?

Originally Posted by aktse I was just in the process of writing to help. I got the e-mail saying that I was actually charged! Shall I continue the e-mail and ask help to reverse the charges?

yes please, and we're sorry about that. No worries, we'll reverse it.

Some buglets I've noticed in the first pass in playing around with the new release:

• Captions aren't properly aligned under vertical shots
• Switching from a vertical shot to a horizontal shot causes the whole screen to move a bit as everything re-lays out in a slightly different place
• When you mouseover the main photo, it moves slightly to the right, then slightly back to the left when the popup window pops up
• I'm worried that my novice viewers won't find the sizes and save photo functions in the flyout window. Once you know how to get the flyout window, it's nice and clean and easy, but it's not discoverable at all (except by accident). Should there be some sort of icon that you can click to get the flyout window? Or some other way of making it more discoverable?
• When I did Save Photo, I didn't get offered the same filename as I uploaded it as. It had a prefix of "4880_" on the original file name.
• The photo info screen would be alot more readable if it had horizontal divider lines between the various types of info like this.
• When I open the Info window and try to position it so that I can leave it open and not have it interfere with the main photo or the thumbs, I find that is pretty difficult because when I drag my window wider, the content centers itself in the window, not letting me have more room on the right to park the info window.
• The info window location appears to be global for a user. If you open two windows, each with the photo info window open and in different places, then as soon as you navigate in either window, the photo info window will jump to the location of the info window in the other window. It seems like the info window location should be local to the window, not a global thing that is the same everywhere.
• If I have two Smugmug windows open in Firefox tabs and I switch to one tab, I find that the keyboard navigation doesn't work until I click somewhere in the window. This is not 100% reproducible, but I've definitely seen it 4 or 5 times.
• When I'm using keyboard navigation, I find myself expecting that I can use the up/down arrow keys to navigate up and down in the thumb grid.

1. I still have to mask Opera as Firefox to see the new stuff
2. The buttons are still thin lines (see screenshot)
3. The comments box is a bit misaligned (see screenshot)

Originally Posted by blurpy 1. I still have to mask Opera as Firefox to see the new stuff 2. The buttons are still thin lines (see screenshot) 3. The comments box is a bit misaligned (see screenshot)

Opera is not one of our supported browsers. We try to get it right in Opera too, but some things don't work properly. See the bottom of this page. I'm sorry.

Originally Posted by ivar Opera is not one of our supported browsers. We try to get it right in Opera too, but some things don't work properly. See the bottom of this page. I'm sorry.

I know, but can't you fix the buttons? Please? It's so annoying that I can't see what the buttons do, and that it's almost impossible to press them. Most of the functionality works in Opera, and that's great! But the buttons are really ruining the experience.

I previously created an account with the "old" beta release - but it seems to be gone now. Do I need to create another new account for the "new" beta release?

Update: Dooh! My goof - everything is OK.

Originally Posted by blurpy I know, but can't you fix the buttons? Please? It's so annoying that I can't see what the buttons do, and that it's almost impossible to press them. Most of the functionality works in Opera, and that's great! But the buttons are really ruining the experience.

It's possible in the future, but as Ivar said, we fully support FF, Safari and IE.

Originally Posted by onethumb Actually, we're the idiots. You shouldn't have to pay for a beta account. :) I think I fixed this. Thanks for the heads-up, and holler if anyone else finds their accounts locked out. Don

Don (or anyone else):

Not really seeing any changes - am *I* missing something? (referring to my regular SM account)..no apparent changes when viewing my site when logged in or not.

Derek


EDIT: yeah, never mind - I have to read the darn post properly...new BETA !

Too hopped up on suger from all the treats.

I'm noticing some of my mods are not working on the beta site.

On thing tho - even tho I have it set not to (far as I know) show keywords, I'm still seeing keywords in the gallery (even tho I have it set to hide the photo as the gallery is for a guestbook). It appears to be taking the photo file name as the key words.

I'm sure I'm missing something, but maybe not.


EDIT: My slideshow for the main page (in bio box)...works great as I set it up - but it shows someone elses photos...yes, I made sure the link was to my beta slideshow gallery - I'm looking in the original thread for this issue/fix but there are a lot of pages in that thread! (and Im at work)

Originally Posted by DJKennedy I'm noticing some of my mods are not working on the beta site. On thing tho - even tho I have it set not to (far as I know) show keywords, I'm still seeing keywords in the gallery (even tho I have it set to hide the photo as the gallery is for a guestbook). It appears to be taking the photo file name as the key words. I'm sure I'm missing something, but maybe not. EDIT: My slideshow for the main page (in bio box)...works great as I set it up - but it shows someone elses photos...yes, I made sure the link was to my beta slideshow gallery - I'm looking in the original thread for this issue/fix but there are a lot of pages in that thread! (and Im at work)

you'll need to hack the slideshow code on the beta server to get it to work. Look in the code for "upload.smugmug.com" and change it to "beta.smugmug.net"

Also on the beta server, slideshows from keywords and popular galleries wont work, you have to use a normal gallery.

I'm noticing that the beta version doesn't seem to have the link below the picture that gives you the URLs for various image sizes (tiny, thumbnail, medium, large, original).

I use this feature quite regularly. Is it going to be in the new version? Or is it already there and I'm just not seeing it?

I haven't changed any CSS, of course.

-D

Originally Posted by bigwebguy you'll need to hack the slideshow code on the beta server to get it to work. Look in the code for "upload.smugmug.com" and change it to "beta.smugmug.net" Also on the beta server, slideshows from keywords and popular galleries wont work, you have to use a normal gallery.

Ah - thanks...I had just finished reading: Slideshow has not been updated - it will be, but not with this beta test :)

But that will work too.. Thanks!

EDIT: that worked - of course I had to remember to change the .com to.net a couple times (like for the spacer.gif)

Originally Posted by dbooth80 I'm noticing that the beta version doesn't seem to have the link below the picture that gives you the URLs for various image sizes (tiny, thumbnail, medium, large, original).

If you have easy sharing enabled, the button is located above the main image in the breadcrumbNav area. The slideshow, themes, add photos buttons are up there also.

Originally Posted by jfriend Some buglets I've noticed in the first pass in playing around with the new release: Captions aren't properly aligned under vertical shots Switching from a vertical shot to a horizontal shot causes the whole screen to move a bit as everything re-lays out in a slightly different place When you mouseover the main photo, it moves slightly to the right, then slightly back to the left when the popup window pops up

What browser is this? Can you send some example links?

Originally Posted by jfriend I'm worried that my novice viewers won't find the sizes and save photo functions in the flyout window. Once you know how to get the flyout window, it's nice and clean and easy, but it's not discoverable at all (except by accident). Should there be some sort of icon that you can click to get the flyout window? Or some other way of making it more discoverable?

We're thinking about and working on this, and will watch it like a hawk, but our initial research shows that most people, novices included, mouse over the larger photo automatically when they're looking at it, so we hope it'll be obvious. This seems to be a combination of natural behavior and the fact that IE has popped stuff over the image for years. But we are still thinking about it and will watch behavior like a hawk.

Originally Posted by jfriend When I did Save Photo, I didn't get offered the same filename as I uploaded it as. It had a prefix of "4880_" on the original file name.

This is by design. People had asked that the ImageID be included in the filename so they can re-correlate their image libraries using the API, SmugDAV, and/or the CD/DVD backups.

Maybe we should stick it on the end though? Any thoughts?

Originally Posted by jfriend The photo info screen would be alot more readable if it had horizontal divider lines between the various types of info like this.

I agree. :)

Originally Posted by jfriend When I open the Info window and try to position it so that I can leave it open and not have it interfere with the main photo or the thumbs, I find that is pretty difficult because when I drag my window wider, the content centers itself in the window, not letting me have more room on the right to park the info window. The info window location appears to be global for a user. If you open two windows, each with the photo info window open and in different places, then as soon as you navigate in either window, the photo info window will jump to the location of the info window in the other window. It seems like the info window location should be local to the window, not a global thing that is the same everywhere. If I have two Smugmug windows open in Firefox tabs and I switch to one tab, I find that the keyboard navigation doesn't work until I click somewhere in the window. This is not 100% reproducible, but I've definitely seen it 4 or 5 times.

Thanks for the feedback! I'm not sure what we can do with the info window, since we save that setting for future use so you don't always have to re-position, but I'll make sure BigWebGuy and GreenJimmy see it.

Originally Posted by jfriend When I'm using keyboard navigation, I find myself expecting that I can use the up/down arrow keys to navigate up and down in the thumb grid.

Turns out that up/down arrows are used significantly by lots of people to simply scroll the page, especially on laptops and for people with disabilities, so we can't use them or it breaks their experience. Sorry. :(

Don

Thanks for responding.

Originally Posted by onethumb What browser is this? Can you send some example links?

Both Firefox 2.0 and IE 6. Just look at any of the vertical images in this gallery that have captions: http://jfriend.beta.smugmug.net/gallery/165/1/4942#4790.

And here's a screen shot:

Originally Posted by onethumb We're thinking about and working on this, and will watch it like a hawk, but our initial research shows that most people, novices included, mouse over the larger photo automatically when they're looking at it, so we hope it'll be obvious. This seems to be a combination of natural behavior and the fact that IE has popped stuff over the image for years. But we are still thinking about it and will watch behavior like a hawk.

I worry that the mouse is over the thumbs as users navigate among the thumbs and it will take quite awhile before they accidentally discover the fly-out. Wouldn't some sort of glyph or icon near the photo that looks like something you should click on for more options add to the discoverability.

I personally don't even like the auto-flyout because it pops up when I'm just moving the mouse around the screen and it's quite visually disruptive. I'd rather have an option to not auto-popup and just have my users click on a glyph to access the additional options. After all, these aren't options that you are going to do on a high percentage of the ones you view.

Originally Posted by onethumb This is by design. People had asked that the ImageID be included in the filename so they can re-correlate their image libraries using the API, SmugDAV, and/or the CD/DVD backups. Maybe we should stick it on the end though? Any thoughts?

Hmmm. The end would be a lot better than the beginning. If somebody goes to the trouble of making descriptive filenames, sticking a numeric code on the front kind of ruins the whole idea. I'd be OK with putting them on the end. I'm still not sure I understand why this has to be in the user visible filename at all. It sounds like the reasons people wanted this had to do with API stuff, not end-user stuff. Can those problems be solved without obscuring the filename that an end user sees in the save photo UI.

Originally Posted by onethumb Thanks for the feedback! I'm not sure what we can do with the info window, since we save that setting for future use so you don't always have to re-position, but I'll make sure BigWebGuy and GreenJimmy see it.

I guess the bigger issue is that I just don't find the floating window very useful. On my laptop screen, there's no place to put it that won't obscure something so I'm always having to move it around. This is made worse by the fact that the Smugmug content is centered in the window so I have to twice as much extra room on the sides in order to have a place to put it that doesn't obscure anything. I haven't thought this one through, but did you consider having the data integrated into the layout of the page (probably below the main image) and have it be a mode you can turn on or off quickly and easily. In this way, it wouldn't obscure anything and could be easily turned on or off.

Originally Posted by onethumb Turns out that up/down arrows are used significantly by lots of people to simply scroll the page, especially on laptops and for people with disabilities, so we can't use them or it breaks their experience. Sorry. :( Don

Yeah, I figured. I'm just sharing the feedback that once you start thinking about navigating the grid of thumbs with the arrows and start getting in the web 2.0 world where you aren't just in a browser, the brain starts expecting that the up/down arrow key will work there too (similar to what you do in the arrange photos interface). A challenge of web 2.0 design is that you'd like to break free from the previous contraints of a browser-based design and do it like you would have done it if it was a native interface (e.g. Adobe Bridge browser, Photo mechanic, Photoshop Elements or Windows Explorer when browsing photos), but of course, there still are some issues with being in a browser.