shooting for 8x10

lynnma · August 15, 2006

I'm almost too embarassed to ask this as I feel I should know but I can't get my head around it.. here's the question. When shooting a scene, does anyone have tips on viewing the scene for an 8x10 frame. I know this sounds basic, but I have a problem with it. I seem to have "cropping" problems for 8x10 size. Take this shot for instance (a site I did).. people wanted to order this shot but to order it in 8x10 means loads of forground and background.. I know this sounds simplistic but I'd like to hear what others do. I could rearrange the people I spose, put up with the back grounds and forgrounds.. whats your solution.:D Am I making any sense?
Thanks
Lynn

cmason · August 15, 2006

Boy, that one is tough. I think you have two options: add more foreground/background, or order a different size print: 14x 11 or maybe 9x14

Andy · August 15, 2006

Hi Lynnie,

Today's cameras are SO GOOD that you can afford the extra breathing room and still get great prints. So, back up a bit, or zoom out a bit. You'll quicky get the hang of it.

Moving to "Technique"

lynnma · August 15, 2006

cmason wrote:

Boy, that one is tough. I think you have two options: add more foreground/background, or order a different size print: 14x 11 or maybe 9x14

Thanks for your reply. I agree for that one shot.. but it seems to me that most medium sized printoutable shots are 8x10 and it's the most odd configuation don't you think? 11x14 is much more pleasing to the eye but too big to print on the average printer. I spose I'll have to order most of my prints in 11x14.. I was just interested to hear if others hate 8 x10s as much as I do.

lynnma · August 15, 2006

Andy wrote:

Hi Lynnie,

Today's cameras are SO GOOD that you can afford the extra breathing room and still get great prints. So, back up a bit, or zoom out a bit. You'll quicky get the hang of it.

Moving to "Technique"

I was hoping to hear from you Andrew.. I also figured you might say back up a bit and allow more room.. that seems the most obvious solutin.. thanks dearie.:D

Andy · August 15, 2006

lynnma wrote:

I was hoping to hear from you Andrew.. I also figured you might say back up a bit and allow more room.. that seems the most obvious solutin.. thanks dearie.:D

I'm also using 8x12 a lot

just to further complicate things!

lynnma · August 15, 2006

Andy wrote:

I'm also using 8x12 a lot just to further complicate things!

:uhoh huh? where the heck do you find an 8x12 frame.. Wally World? TJ Maxx? Dollar store?? those are the only frame shops I frequent...the only reason I use 8x10 is cos the frame fits.. I hate the look of that box..

pathfinder · August 15, 2006

Nice Lhot, Lynn!! That image looks like a natural for 8x12 or 10x15:):

The standard 4x5 or 8x10 framing is so ingrained in the printed pages, and yet 35mm ( and DSLRs by extension) are all 2x3 or 24x36 eg 8x12, 10x15, 16x24 etc.

I agree that 8x12 frames are harder to find at Wal Mart - but some online vendor's seem to have them usually.

mercphoto · August 15, 2006

lynnma wrote:

I'm almost too embarassed to ask this as I feel I should know but I can't get my head around it.. here's the question. When shooting a scene, does anyone have tips on viewing the scene for an 8x10 frame. I know this sounds basic, but I have a problem with it. I seem to have "cropping" problems for 8x10 size.

Some cameras have removable focus screens and you can get replacement screens that have lines marked for the 8x10 portion of the view finder. I've seen after market versions of this as well for a variety of other cameras, such as 20D, 30D and some Nikons.

The short answer is to never fill to the far edges of the view finder. To get an idea as to how far you can go take a physical 8x10 photo print and point your camera at it. Zoom so that it occupies the entire viewfinder in the 8" direction. Now notice how much space you have on the sides in the 10" direction. This gives you an idea as to how much space in the view finder an 8x10 occupies. You might be able to use a reference point to help guide you, such as the outer most focus points, to help you remember where that point is.

mercphoto · August 15, 2006

pathfinder wrote:

The standard 4x5 or 8x10 framing is so ingrained in the printed pages, and yet 35mm ( and DSLRs by extension) are all 2x3 or 24x36 eg 8x12, 10x15, 16x24 etc.

Original film was 8x10 negatives. 35mm film was originally for motion pictures, not for still cameras. It was hijacked as a camera film.

I agree that 8x12 frames are harder to find at Wal Mart - but some online vendor's seem to have them usually.

They are hard to find, but you can go to Michael's and get frames in sections. But an 8" pair and a 12" pair and voila. Now all you need is for them to cut a piece of glass. Not as cheap as ready-made 8x10 but not too pricey either.

lynnma · August 15, 2006

Thanks all.. very interesting reading. All very educational and helpful. I'll try all.

Jeffro · August 15, 2006

lynnma wrote:

Thanks all.. very interesting reading. All very educational and helpful. I'll try all.

Don't forget about a matte. If you print an 8x12 or something else, and have trouble finding a frame, get a bigger frame and add a matte to take up the odd dimensions left over. Been there, done that.

Khaos · August 15, 2006

Almost all my stuff is based on the 2x3 format of 35mm. Occasionaly I do a 4x5 because that crop works the best (usually with people and flower shots).

I list next to my shot what sizes it's available in and adjust the custom pricing to only allow for those. Time consuming yes, but I think it's worth it.

I also would rather have people get my work framed and matted rather than putting it in a cheap one bought at WalMart. That limits sales, but I'm OK with it. However, this works for my type of non-commissioned shooting, I can see the issue for commissioned stuff where people want to use that cheaper frame.

My stuff moves way more when people see it matted and framed than on line.

The one kicker size is 5x7. Yuck to that oddball.

askme2flashu · August 15, 2006

Carry a matte with a 8X10 opening around with you. Learn to crop your view through the opening. Move the matte back and forth, acts like a zoom. Compose within your matte and you will know what to leave in your viewfinder. After a while you will be able to crop in camera without the help of the matte.

Ansel Adams training technique.

lynnma · August 15, 2006

askme2flashu wrote:

Carry a matte with a 8X10 opening around with you. Learn to crop your view through the opening. Move the matte back and forth, acts like a zoom. Compose within your matte and you will know what to leave in your viewfinder. After a while you will be able to crop in camera without the help of the matte.

Ansel Adams training technique.

thanks

TristanP · August 15, 2006

you can go to Michael's and get frames in sections. But an 8" pair and a 12" pair and voila.

I've done this for several odd sizes = including 10x15 and 6x18 (3:1 panos). Yes, finding the glass is the tricky part. Cutting your own mat is fairly easy.

What I've done for my motorsports pics is crop them to 8x10 (the most square format), so that if the driver/rider wants 4x6, 5x7, or 11x14, they're cropping off background from the top/bottom, leaving the important stuff in the middle. Up- or down-sampling is done by EZPrints. Sometimes it keeps me from zooming in as much to fill the frame, but I work around it. I just have to remember to not fill the frame with the car/bike and it usually turns out just fine. This may be a completely backwards thought process, but it seems to have worked so far.

Here's a visual if it helps:

photobug · August 18, 2006

lynnma wrote:

:uhoh huh? where the heck do you find an 8x12 frame?

Lynnma, first, I love your "Edwardian Gunners" portrait -- very nice!!

Note that 8x12 is probably exactly the same aspect ratio (2:3) as your sensor, so the good news is that "what you shoot is what you get" on the print. That way you can crop fairly close when you shoot.

However, Andy has a good point about resolution being high enough now that it can really pay off later to leave a tad of extra border when you shoot and do final cropping in your digital darkroom -- probably over and over again. For a given shot, you may have to later crop to multiple aspect ratios ... e.g. 2:3(4x6), 4:5(8x10), 5:7(5x7), etc, etc.)

I think I've seen 8x12 frames at Aaron Brothers stores and elsewhere, and they're easily orderable online. Granted, the selection of 8x10 and 11x14 frames is likely to be much larger.

But better yet, mat or double-mat that beautiful 8x12 print and put it in a larger frame! You could mat it with a 1.5" border on the narrow dimension and 1" border on the long dimension ends and the result will fit perfectly in a very standard 11x14" frame. Or a nice wide 4" border on all sides and voila!, it pops into a standard 16x20 frame. You get the idea ;-).

claudermilk · August 18, 2006

As Bill mentioned a while ago, you can get focusing screens with 8x10 aspect ratio markings. I know the Katzeye screen ihave had that option.

I tend to use AmericanFrame for my frames, cut the mats myself, and use a local plastics house for custom-cut plexi, so I size the frame to what I need for each print. One nice thing with self-cutting the mats is you do get to size the OD & ID as needed. Using a museum cut (larger bottom border than top & sides) naturally accounts for slightly different aspect ratios between frame & image...and it looks better IMHO. IIRC Bainbridge even has a line or pre-cut mats that does this.

douglas · August 18, 2006

This isnt an answer, just a comment. I have an Olympus Evolt 500 which is 4/3rds format it works well for 8 1/2 by 11s, but i have to crop alot for 4 x 6 prints.

colourbox · August 18, 2006

Just another comment too. I agree with the advice to back off a bit from filling the frame because it also gives you more breathing room around the edges when you need to rotate an image to level the horizon.

Theridamas · August 24, 2006

lynnma wrote:

I'm almost too embarassed to ask this as I feel I should know but I can't get my head around it.. here's the question. When shooting a scene, does anyone have tips on viewing the scene for an 8x10 frame. I know this sounds basic, but I have a problem with it. I seem to have "cropping" problems for 8x10 size. Take this shot for instance (a site I did).. people wanted to order this shot but to order it in 8x10 means loads of forground and background.. I know this sounds simplistic but I'd like to hear what others do. I could rearrange the people I spose, put up with the back grounds and forgrounds.. whats your solution.:D Am I making any sense?
Thanks
Lynn

I have a ideal, maybe you can at a matte to the picture in photoshop, or some other program. I am uploading on I tryed

Sam · August 27, 2006

Lynnma,

Here is my approach to this issue. I will crop a photo to any dimension to present the image to its best advantage. That said 90% + of my photos are 2/3 ratio. Rather than Wally World or some other local retail outlet try Frame Destination online. (There are others, this is just my go to supplier) They have all the sizes I normally use, and will custom make any size I want. If the photo is unique or good enough, it’s worth a custom mat, and frame.

I have a few standard sizes I use. Example. 6 X 9 print, 6 X 9 inside dimensions, and 11 X 14 outside dimensions. 8 X 12 inside, with 12 X 16, or my preferred 16 X 20 outside. 12 X 18 inside, and 20 X 26 outside. I have about 8 standard sizes, all based on the 2/3 ratio, and standard off the shelf mats, and frames. I can offer my 2/3 ratio prints for sale matted to a standard outside dimension to allow the client to easily find an off the shelf frame of their choice, if they are looking for something different than my standard black Nielsen frames.

I don’t do much with 4 X 6, but with a 2” mat all around will fit nicely into an 8 X 10 frame.

Hope this helps.

Sam

shooting for 8x10

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