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So what's Mongrel been up to? (LAX!!!)
Don't have time to post much between the day job and weekend shooting, but thought I would share these...
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All shots taken with the Canon 1D and Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 @ 300mm f/2.8 200ISO. Shot back to back tournaments two weekends in a row, 7 to 9 games at each. That's a lot of shots-lol.
I am currently re-formulating my 'business plan' as far as sports shooting and print sales. Honestly, the amount of work involved vs. sales has been disappointing. When you put up shots like this (while maybe not *great*, definately not *bad*) and you sell four 4X6's well...:rolleyes Makes you rethink the whole thing.
Anyway...
C&C appreciated.
Take care and good light to all,
Mongrel
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All shots taken with the Canon 1D and Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 @ 300mm f/2.8 200ISO. Shot back to back tournaments two weekends in a row, 7 to 9 games at each. That's a lot of shots-lol.
I am currently re-formulating my 'business plan' as far as sports shooting and print sales. Honestly, the amount of work involved vs. sales has been disappointing. When you put up shots like this (while maybe not *great*, definately not *bad*) and you sell four 4X6's well...:rolleyes Makes you rethink the whole thing.
Anyway...
C&C appreciated.
Take care and good light to all,
Mongrel
If every keystroke was a shutter press I'd be a pro by now...
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Comments
I know what you mean about the lax (pun intended
I don't know if it's my market area (it's a mix of socio-economic groups) or that people still don't like buying off the web for an "unknown". I think capturing the impulse buyer is still the best as I see tons of parents crowding around the tournament action shooter booths where all shots are pre-printed in 5x7 format.
If you find the magic formula, please let us know.
good luck,
C.
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check out my (sports) pics: ColleenBonney.smugmug.com
*Thanks to Boolsacho for the avatar photo (from the dgrin portrait project)
thank you for stopping by (I thought the mic was dead
Well, as far as sales...
Word of mouth, a few fliers to the team I'm shooting. I'm pretty small-time at the moment, I focus on my daughter's teams and a few local teams mostly. I originally got into to this because other parents saw the pics I was taking of my daughter and starting encouraging me to "go for it". "Your pictures are so *good* you should sell prints!"
Anyway, I have a SmugMug Pro account to handle the sales (which actually is exactly the way I want it at this point).
Two things are working against me I believe-
1. I shoot 'girls'. I've noticed a real bias between girl's\women's sports and the boys. Case in point-the last two girl's LAX tournaments were fairly large (one had over 250 teams!). There were NO onsite sports photography people-NONE. At the bigger tourny I was the only guy there with pro-level equipment (I use a 1D and 300mm f/2.8 lens). At the other tournament there was *one* guy with a Nikon D2H and a 300mm f/2.8. One lady had a 20D with a Sigma 120-300 on it. I saw one Rebel XT, one other 20D, and a Nikon D70; all with 'consumer grade' zooms. Contrast that with a major men's LAX tournament (or any other 'boy's' event).
2. "A prophet has no honor in his own country." The teams I shoot are from my hometown, and I know everyone involved. Even though they are my biggest supporters (the "you really take great pictures" people), I think they are reluctant to "pay" me for what I'm doing. It is difficult to shoot "Joe's Daughter" and then expect him to pay me $5 for a 4X6 I guess. Perhaps they don't realize what's involved? $3200 invested in just the body and lens, along with literally *hours* spent editing, cropping, uploading, and the like. Not to mention website fees and misc.
I'm at the point where I'd prefer to shoot by request with a minimum fee and a print package price worked out. But we'll see. I have one other big tournament to cover, but it's out of state and I don't know what the local photogs involvement may be. I'll play that by ear.
I've also been approached to cover a local HS Football team for a couple of games in the fall. I don't have the details worked out yet on that one though.
Again, thank you for your time and kind words,
Anthony
First thing you need to do to boost your sales is to stop giving away your prints.....
Attachment not found.
Without a watermark, most people will be prfectly happy to have this image on their computer. A simple "print screen" copy to paint, save as, open in PS crop, save stolen!!
Having a teenage daughter and seeing how all the kids were stealing from the local school photographer, I can guarentee you your shots are all over the school, and their my space accounts. The kids will still take them with proof, but mom and dad wont usually settle for that, it looks bad to e-mail grandma a pic with "proof" across the grandchilds face:D .
Try it.....
I was able to steal this file, which is too big to save as an attachment, so I put it in my secret smug gallery and linked here....
I'm sure this would print out many a 4x6's at home. The other size might too. May not be top quality but some people could care less.
I always turn off all links, turn off large and original, and use the "proof". I really wish we had the ability to make the watermark say what we wanted it to such as "LeiningerPhotos.com" that way the thieves would be advertising for us when they stole our pic's!!!
Everyone that is trying to sell pic's should take these precautions, and ask for a personalized watermark in pro accounts!
can you say "epihany"? Thank you for the 'awakening'.
I learned a lesson through your observations-
Don't be stupid!
I guess the 'nice guy' (I didn't want to 'ruin' the shots with a watermark), larges look so much better, I'm ok with right-click protection, I know these people, etc. etc. etc. probably seemed pretty naive to you-lol.
Point taken, I'll make the changes you suggested shortly.
Thanks for taking the time to point this out to me, I appreciate it!
Take care and good light,
Mongrel
I went through the same thing.... You think the right click will surfice, but then someone gives you the pudding...
You're welcome by they way! Hope your sales go up!
Usually, you have to have a helper who runs the "concession" part while you shoot. The helper has a laptop so the parent can make their selection immediately.
A couple of years ago, a young kid was looking to make a name for himself as "the" sports shooter in the area. He came with a nice Bronica MF setup and digital back. He actually brought a full desktop computer, large monitor and dye sub printer, to do 5"x7"s on the spot. He also supplied cardboard frames. As I recall, he was charging $6.50/5x7, which I told him was a little low. (More than a little low, considering his investment.)
He did a brisk business, but he only lasted a season. I got to hang around him because his card reader went phoey and he lived ~ 20 minutes away. I lived 4 blocks from this event, and I knew his parents through my kids' school, so I loaned him one of mine. After 4 weeks I had to pester him to give back the reader, but he's still a pretty good kid.
Anyway, it's the same with anything. You can't sell popcorn to a movie-goer after they left the movie theater, no matter how good it is.
ziggy53
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
thanks for your input on this.
I've determined that the 'sell and print onsite' thing isn't for me. If *that* is what it takes to make some cash shooting sports then I'll go back to plumbing
Seriously, I'm one person, shooting part time. To be able to offer a 'print onsite' option would take *at least* one other person and an investment in gear I can't make at this point (I'm still paying for the camera and lenses
Hire onsite support
purchase printers, tents, laptops, paper
setup onsite credit card machines (who carries cash anymore?)
Hire shooters if the event is too large
purchase large bottles of advil
Two options I'm considering:
1. Be a 'hired' shooter for someone already established to do the above for an hourly rate.
2. Shoot by request. Someone sees an example of my work and decides that's what they really want, pays me a 'sitting' or 'field' fee and agrees to buy a package in advance (with upfront payment or partial payment).
Sports shooting was never my goal when I set out, and if it doesn't fly according to my particular situation, I'll pursue other photographic avenues. It certainly would be simpler and less constraining to shoot say fine art type shots and invest much less time in editing and sales. Shoot, edit, frame, sell-all at my pace.
Again, thanks for your input and 'good light',
Anthony
I got Smug this season, and with only a 1/4 of the season underway...I have out sold, out profited, last season. I'm nearing 500 sales this season. I have sold 4x6, 5x7, 8x10, 11x14, 20x30, t-shirts...quite an array of choices so far. I have paid for all my new AB800's, 2 umbrellas, a light stand, my Sekonic light meter thus far.
You have to get your name out there. I haven't taken flyers, posted and handed out. I keep business cards with me. I have a link from the track that I shoot at sending people to my site. I also submit stories to two Magazines (print and on-line). My $ from the stories is not included in the above paragraph by the way. I have hooked up with some racers who display my logo on their trailer, in return for a reduced price jpeg file, which is now on said trailer.
Last year I was able to pay for my 20D, so I may no be getting rich, but the hobby is a right off, and gives me some new toys. And besides I was going to the races and taking pictures before, just for my own pleasure.
You just need to put in the effort.
There is a guy that was doing on site sales from time to time, but his prints weren't that good of quality, and were really expensive.
I sell the 4x6's pretty cheap, but since people can grab them off the screen (even though they say proof) if figured this year I would try them. I have had people by a bunch of 4x6 prints, then come back for a bigger one. Some people want all the shots, but want to wait for "THE" shot, before paying for the 20x30 poster. The 4x6 price has not undercut the sale of my bigger prints, they are on track with last year.
Awesome!
But then, you should qualify what you mean by, "You just need to put in the effort."
I count over 23,000 images on your site. If you have only had a SmugMug account for this year, that's an average of around 4,000 images per month, or 1,000 images per week. That is some effort!
Now if you account for Winter months, I bet some weeks you are pushing around 2,000 images, and that's just what you show. I bet your actuations are a lot more.
Now some might think that sales of 500 out of 23,000 possible are pretty small odds, but you proved that your system works.
I guess I'm really saying that "you" make your system work. Never discount your value in all of this. Many could try this same thing and fail. You are responsible for your success.
Bravo, my friend, bravo!
Best,
ziggy53
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
I do take alot of pics, always have. I was taking as many before I ever thought of selling too. I guess if you don't really love the sport, event sales may not be the thing for "you". As your photo taking to photo sales ratio will be lop sided. But people like choices.
In the end I figure out how much time I spend at the track, and on the computer, and the dollar amount earned...including my stories, and see if it's reasonable. So far so good, but if it was to become a chore, or a loss, I would stop selling, and just shoot for my own pleasure again.
My overhead has been reduced by getting on the good side of the track owner, thus not having to pay to get in.
The images on my site aren't all from this year. I have all the MX pic's shot from the years prior to Smug as well, and some of them have been loaded on here too.
One could never afford event sales with film....unless they were rich to begin with. I count my "effort" as a success, since I am getting new equipment each year, and not showing a loss once all the business expenses are tallied.
Thanks for your good words and encouragement...
And I apologize to Mongrel for hi-jacking his post!!
Good color - lots of action. Basics of face, ball conact and action all there.
Interesting discussion here - I am in the same spot. I shoot my kids cuz I love to. Sales there are a bonus. I shoot a U6 - U10 tournament because I really enjoy the little kids.
But I really think the only way to earn new glass is to do the by appointment stuff - pay me in advance, etc. Shooting on spec is not a good business model.
You may be interested in this thread:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=34659
cheers
ann
My Galleries My Photography BLOG
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interesting thread-
have been thinking of the print on site approach,just in case I end up out of a job.i have a canon i9950 a3+ printer and with an inverter could run it out of my car,or arrange some space and ac power.
shot my first football match on the weekend so a novice but realise that
I need a 300/2.8 or 400/2.8 to get low down by the fence shots which blur the crowd and highlight the action....investment needed..
the 400/5.6 does however work ok when you get some height and shoot down onto the ground,avoiding crowd distractions.500mm would be better for these types of shots though ,as you are further away than those shooting down at the fence
if you aren't able,or don't want to print on site at quarter time and half time ,then another way to go would be to turn up the following week with a board which displays smallish proofs of action shots -if there are a few people in frame then you might be able to sell the same shot to different parents!
Longitude: 145° 08'East
Canon 20d,EFS-60mm Macro,Canon 85mm/1.8. Pentax Spotmatic SP,Pentax Super Takumars 50/1.4 &135/3.5,Pentax Super-Multi-Coated Takumars 200/4 ,300/4,400/5.6,Sigma 600/8.
No apologies necessary! This is a discussion around the kitchen table as far as I'm concerned
Ann, thank you so much for your kind words and the link. I followed that thread from the beginning, but didn't catch the end until just now. Lots of good points made and ideas exchanged.
I really think that sports-action photography *can* be lucrative for some. However, from talking to other photogs in my area and reading up on it for some time now, I'm not sure it can be that rewarding for a 'single-shooter' (depending on the event).
This subject comes up often over at FM and I was blown away by some of the setups that people are using. I almost had to pick my jaw up off the floor when one gentleman started talking about setting up "100 view stations"! Yup, that's ONE HUNDRED laptops connected to a network with probably a dozen high-end printers, runners to fetch memory cards, editors, and salespeople. That doesn't even count photographers. Granted, we're probably talking about one of the biggest in the US, but still
Now, for me, that isn't what I'm looking for. Somone suggested a business idea to me today, and mentioned "someday hiring photographers to do all the shooting"
That's why I said what I said above-if I can't shoot sports on *my terms* then I'll find something else to shoot! As much as I'd like to kick up some real money doing what I love (photography in general), I refuse to let it drive me into doing it in a way that I *hate*. To me, it's pretty simple. Here is what I can offer you (a superior shot of your son or daughter playing sports than you can get elsewhere), and this is the way it works: you pay-I shoot. My father told me years ago-"You can stay home and loose money." In other words, if it ain't profitable to leave the house, you're better off staying home! I hear stories all the time from parents who have either bought or been offered sub-par "event" or tournament photos that (in their words) suck compared to mine that were taken by these on-site mass-market companies. I hear "you should go to such and such" and shoot there (they obviously don't know how large event contracts work). But I can't offer on-site instant gratification, so
Excuse me a second....
BRB
Anyway, got off a couple tangents there so let's see if I can wrap it up somewhat before going off to bed...
We enjoy taking pictures...
We invest in gear because we enjoy taking pictures...:uhoh
We get better, people notice and show interest in our pics...
We invest in MORE gear and TIME....
Now we're taking good pics on a regular basis...
Someone says "you're really good, you should SELL your pictures"...
We invest in a SmugMug PRO account...
We shoot 1400 pics in 95 degree weather at weekend tournament...:cry
We sell FOUR 4X6's
(are you with me so far...?)
versus-
"I saw your shot hanging up in your Sisters office"
Yes...:):
"It's really good..."
Thank you...
"How much would you charge to come to my son's game and shoot him?"
Ahh...let's see....
(based on a true story...)
No 'spec'
No wasted shutter actuations
No wasted time processing pics no one will pay for
No gigabytes wasted saving pics no one will pay for
No printers, runners, trailer, tents, laptops, or credit card machines
Now, I'm not so naive to think the above is without risk, but for my situation, it's a lot more sure than the 'spec' model and doesn't involve one more piece of equipment or anymore 'investment' then I've already made.
Sure, it's great to get the compliments and accolades. But you can't *eat them*. I enjoy shooting the kids, honestly I do enjoy that part of it. And I don't mind giving out the occasion 'freebies' or discounts. But it's starting to cost me and cut into my family time, and that's not good.
Ann, you mentioned family portraits I think. That's another great way to do it. You have a set time, usually say four hours time invested, some basic gear (most of which you may already have), and a set price you *will* receive. You still get the enjoyment of shooting pics, the customer gets the enjoyment of seeing the prints, and you are home at a decent hour. All the while maintaining control.
Enough for now, take care all and good light!
Anthony
Mongrel,
First off, very nice Lax pics!
Now, I feel your pain. After a lot of compliments of my work, I decided to try to make some money doing sports shooting. I went with a 2-prong approach:
1. Contacted small local weekly paper to see if they had freelance sports work - they did.
2. Sell work I did covering same events (paper was OK with this as well - I just don't sell the images I send to the paper )
Part 1 has gone very well in regards to the fact the paper loves my work - I was selling about 4 images a week for spring sports and was given a pay raise up to $20 an image (hey it's a small paper so $20 is good by their standards).
On the 2nd front I was relying on word-of-mouth and handing out business cards at the games. I augmented this approach by leaving a portfolio of about 25 8x10 images in the stands - and saw parents going through it at every game. What I found was this: a lot of compliments on my work but very little sales. There were 2 or 3 parents of each team that did large volume but my total sales for about 16 games was under $400 - hardly worth the effort. Now, I contrast that with shooting a single little league game of my nephew 3 hours away (I was visiting my sister's family and he had a game) - I shot the one game and my sister emailed my gallery link to the parents and I made about $85 off that single game.
What was different? 2 things IMO -
1. My gallery got sent to all the parents of the kids.
2. My sister lives in a fairly well-to-do area - not rich but more disposable income.
So, like you I am re-evaluating my business model. I am still going to shoot for the paper - I just won't process all the images I take, but I'm going to try for more contract work. I created some 'collage' type prints and gave two away to my two sisters of their kids and sold them at discount to two of my better customers. The thought was to provide some higher ticket unique items and target people who had disposable income and want something unique. Here are some examples:
http://www.jagsportsphotos.com/gallery/1553973
I'm also going to put an add in the weekly paper in the sports section and have some emails out to local youth soccer league. The idea is to do more contract work. I'm also going to try to get more into gymnastics and travel league type work - where people are paying more to participate - the theory being they have more disposable income and are more obsessed with their childrens sports as opposed to high school sports.
That's the plan anyway - we'll see after the fall sports season if that model works better than Spring sports.