Bryce/Zion Critique Thread

DavidTO · May 21, 2006

In the spirit of the critique that Marc gave on our last night, I thought that we could critique each other's shots here. If you weren't at Bryce/Zion, feel free to chime in, but here's the guidelines:

Posters, this is not the place to barrage with a ton of pictures put up your best for critique, or maybe the one that you can't quite solve. Keep the number of images posted limited.

Repliers, this will be about a keen eye for composition, processing. Look what works and what doesn't work about the image. No fawning, "Oh, that's a wonderful shot," without some reasons why you think so. Be critical and honest. Make cropping/processing suggestions.

DavidTO · May 21, 2006

OK, I'll start, here's what I think may end up being my best image from the shoot. Marc already critiqued it, but he did so in it's un-edited form. Oh, and I posted it elsewhere, unedited, as well.

Here it is cropped and edited. Please let me know what you like/don't like about composition, cropping, processing, or anything else that you want to comment on.

(click on pic for exif)

ginger_55 · May 21, 2006

Yes, I think it may be your best shot! I really like it. A very different perspective with some cool use of the lighting.

(Is that enough?) The colors are well done, too. I also like the way the sky runs in a diagonal line: composition is well done! The trees are a perfect accent (a gift from the gods, I presume)!

ginger

Dee · May 21, 2006

I'll try
I went "wow" immediately when I first saw this in the other thread.

Looking at it critically I might like to see a bit of a gradation from dark to less dark on the foreground rock on the left side. There seems to be an "ultra harsh" line between the rock and the sky. I would expect to see the rock closest to the sky perhaps be a wee bit lighter than closer to the "bottom" of the rock.

Rocks look a little "red" to me, but I wasn't there. The sky looks like a good shade of blue.

saurora · May 22, 2006

Hi David and congratulations on this amazing shot! The composition is outstanding. I love the diagonal lines of the sky and the way those trees lead your eyes right up there is so cool. I have looked at your original untouched shot and compared. I would prefer to see the color of the rocks fall somewhere inbetween the two. The rocks seem way too red and too saturated for my tastes. The sky looks fantastic however. I happen to be one who likes a few shadows here and there (grin) a little mystery, depth, and (to me) reality. I don't have to see all of the detail. Amazingly there really isn't a lot of shadows in your original, but I would think once the contrast is punched up that there should be some? But, I've never been there, so maybe I'm way off base!!!

Harryb · May 22, 2006

Where are the egrets?

gus · May 22, 2006

Great to start seeing some shots from the trip mate. I love verticle stuff & if you are looking for a 'semi-whippin' then i am drawn to the bright blue spot right next to the sun & the harsh rock outline at the edge of the rock on the left top. That said i assume you really thumped it with highlights to get some balance or did you layer it ?

Top composure for the shot though

ian408 · May 22, 2006

David, your shot gives me a real sense of scale. I love looking at things that
are different perspectives of something I've seen. The only comment I would
make is regarding the left side of the picture. It's dark enough that my eye
is drawn to it first.

DavidTO · May 22, 2006

Thanks all, for the comments. I hope someone else posts for critique, too!

Lemme see...

The rock edge I really didn't touch, if it looks harsh, that's how it was, ideas for softening it? I tried dodging the edge, it looked funny. Maybe a localized curves adjustment there, but yeah, it WAS darker there than the rest of the rocks...

Gus, I didn't thump it too hard. It came out of DxO very much like what you see. I used some adjustment layers with highlight masks and blending options that I am sure would not have left a harsh outline. I toggled when I did it, because I thought, "Dang, did I do that?", but it was already there before the adjustment.

I've replaced the shot with an update, the rocks are a touch lighter and less saturated. So all comments above are based on an older processing of the shot. (If you've already looked at it, don't forget to force your browser to reload it, instead of pulling it from the cache).

Oh, and Harry? Once again, you're completely useless. But thanks for posting, anyway!

Andy · May 22, 2006

DavidTO wrote:

Oh, and Harry? Once again, you're completely useless. But thanks for posting, anyway!

It's looking great. David, this is one of the best shots I've seen from the trip! Nice 2nd edits.

saurora · May 22, 2006

Extremely sweet!

ChrisJ · May 22, 2006

This was my favorite of the shots you posted in the other thread. Great perspective. I like it even better after post, now that you've toned down the saturation. The sun looks like a catchlight in the sky. Really makes me wish I'd gotten down to the bottom. Poofy clouds, green trees, red rocks, blue sky, nice diagonal cut, just awesome!

Angelo · May 22, 2006

absolutely stunning shot David

DavidTO · May 22, 2006

Thanks, all.

I'm really hoping that others will post as well, a sort of specialized whipping post, and a place to work through compositional and processing problems, as well.

GREAPER · May 22, 2006

If I am understanding correctly, we are to post the shot to be whipped in this thread? (If not, feel free to move it to a new one)

If so, how bout this one.

DavidTO · May 22, 2006

GREAPER wrote:

If I am understanding correctly, we are to post the shot to be whipped in this thread?

That's the idea!

I'll whip it later when I have time (I should be working now!)

Dee · May 22, 2006

I like the water...

GREAPER wrote:

If I am understanding correctly, we are to post the shot to be whipped in this thread? (If not, feel free to move it to a new one)

If so, how bout this one.

Without being there it's difficult to critique, but perhaps lighten the shadows on the rocks behind the water? Pop up the punch a bit?

DanielB · May 22, 2006

GREAPER wrote:

If I am understanding correctly, we are to post the shot to be whipped in this thread? (If not, feel free to move it to a new one)

If so, how bout this one.

first off sweet shot, it has alot of potential

time for the advice...i think you should crop away some of that negative space at the bottom... it just looks like muddy water to me and isn't adding much to the scene. also maybe up the anty on the reds to bring out the rocks, and maybe some on the green to spruce up the grass.

W.W. Webster · May 22, 2006

DanielB wrote:

i think you should crop away some of that negative space at the bottom

Like this, maybe?

I also thought this shot had great potential, and share your thoughts on cropping and overall colour.

DanielB · May 22, 2006

W.W. Webster wrote:

Like this, maybe?

I also thought this shot had great potential, and share your thoughts on cropping and overall colour.

kinda but i'd like to see more of the rock on the left. i think it adds to the framing.

aero-nut · May 23, 2006

Ok, here is one that I managed to get finished...

wxwax · May 23, 2006

Very nice!

gluwater · May 23, 2006

GREAPER wrote:

If I am understanding correctly, we are to post the shot to be whipped in this thread? (If not, feel free to move it to a new one)

If so, how bout this one.

First off let me say that that is what it looked like in person. I do agree about the negative space at the bottom, I would also crop a little of the top, close to the big rock on the upper middle. Give it more of a pano crop. The lighting is flat but the lighting really was flat. What I think would look better is to go back there and wade to the middle of the river and get lower to the water

.

aero-nut · May 23, 2006

W.W. Webster wrote:

Like this, maybe?

I also thought this shot had great potential, and share your thoughts on cropping and overall colour.

Greap,

Yeah, I like the closer crop better. I think you could probably get even more creative with the crop if you wanted. After watching Marc work his magic with cropping images to make them look like totally different compositions, I have to think that we could apply that to some of our pics that contain a lot of open space.

DanielB · May 23, 2006

kinda but i'd like to see more of the rock on the left. i think it adds to the framing.

i was thinking like this...

Flyinggina · May 23, 2006

Zion Moon Shot
OK. Here is one taken at Zion that I rather like. I am bothered by the lone tree sticking straight out (I thought it was reaching upwards when I took the photo) and wish that I had a bit more space between the moon and the rocks. Would the picture be improved by removing the tree? I'd especially appreciate comments on the b&w conversion which I am still trying to master. Thanks!!

Virginia

DanielB · May 23, 2006

Flyinggina wrote:

OK. Here is one taken at Zion that I rather like. I am bothered by the lone tree sticking straight out (I thought it was reaching upwards when I took the photo) and wish that I had a bit more space between the moon and the rocks. Would the picture be improved by removing the tree? I'd especially appreciate comments on the b&w conversion which I am still trying to master. Thanks!!

Virginia

i agree with you that the tree is distracting... you could clone it out. plus i agree with you there could be just a little more space between the moon and the rock... my suggestion is to just copy/paste the moon over. about the conversion. i think you did great converting the rock, but i'd like to see the sky darker. its too uniform and the same range of grayscale that the rock face is. maybe darker?

and you can make people think its a night shot.

this image has alot of potential though

Flyinggina · May 23, 2006

Thanks Daniel. I agree about getting rid of the tree and also about darkening the sky. I like what you did in your PM with moving the moon but have to think about my willingness to alter nature that much.

Your fix does look great. Another off the wall thing that works with this photo is to rotate it 90 degrees to the right. Then the tree makes sense and the moon's proximity feels right. That would be going too far, though.

Virginia

ginger_55 · May 23, 2006

Virginia, didn't notice the tree until you mentioned it, then I thought the rock might be having a little problem, so, yes, I would clone the tree out, smile. Nice shot, too bad the moon was so close. If turning it helps the whole thing I would do that before I cloned everything.

Greaper, I like your shot the way it was with all the bottom space there. I think it adds. I was really admiring how you handled the water down there with the ripples in the sand UNDER the water. It was something that made it different from most other "slow" water over rocks shots. Then I started reading about how you should take it out...........I agree to disagree on that. I liked it in.

Nice shooting everyone!

ginger

GREAPER · May 23, 2006

ginger_55 wrote:

Virginia, didn't notice the tree until you mentioned it, then I thought the rock might be having a little problem, so, yes, I would clone the tree out, smile. Nice shot, too bad the moon was so close. If turning it helps the whole thing I would do that before I cloned everything.

Greaper, I like your shot the way it was with all the bottom space there. I think it adds. I was really admiring how you handled the water down there with the ripples in the sand UNDER the water. It was something that made it different from most other "slow" water over rocks shots. Then I started reading about how you should take it out...........I agree to disagree on that. I liked it in.

Nice shooting everyone!

ginger

Thx Ginger.

I kinda liked seeing the sand through the water too.

I'm not sure how I feel about brightening the rocks . I'm still thinking on it

Flyinggina · May 23, 2006

Thanks for the comments, Ginger. I have taken out the tree and darkened the sky but left the moon where it was. My fault really. I could have moved and had it further away from the mountain. I thought I wanted it where it was and I was just plain wrong. Oh well. It makes a nice print and a good memory. And (always trying to see the bright side) I learned from my composition mistake. Here is the revised version.

Virginia

Bryce/Zion Critique Thread

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