Frustrating night of basketball

MattGoins · January 15, 2006

Took some shots of the men's and women's games this evening, and couldn't get a decent shot (IMO) to save my life. Lighting just makes it rough. All of these pictures shot with a Canon 350XT, Tamron 28-75mm 2.8, ISO 1600. Anyone have some suggestions to make this better? I wasn't using the flash because I was on the floor and figured that'd be rude, and I don't have access to strobes.

C&C appreciated -- Matt

JoeL · January 15, 2006

Shots are not that bad considering circumstances with Gym Lighting.

Shots 1 and 3 are Dark ,, Shots 2 and 4 have Color Shift Issues.

Here is what I would try:

Shots 1 and 3 ... Lighten Shadows, Highlights, Midtones then add Saturation and Sharpen, after that Noise Reduction.

Shots 2 and 4... Use Curves to adjust Color in PS 7 or CS,, If you are using PS Elements 3.0 use the Temperature Adjustment Slider or try "Levels" or "Auto Color" that may help correct the shift from the Gym Lights.
After you get the Color right, Saturate, Sharpen and if needed use Noise Reduction.

Just a thought on how I would go about making changes..

MattGoins · January 15, 2006

Appreciate the comments Joe, I'll play around with your suggestions and see if I can't make them a bit better. I messed with curves a bit on each of these, but hadn't done anything with the shadows.

wxwax · January 15, 2006

Great advice from Joe, who's a good egg and has been very helpful.

Matt, what I'd like to see are some interesting action shots. Do you have any?

Steve Cavigliano · January 15, 2006

Matt,
These look OK

As Waxy suggests, a little more action would be nice. But I think that's part of the problem. The lens you are using is a tough one for this type lighting/action. Unless you have a way different 28-75mm than I do, the AF is too slow for consistent success shooting low light action. It may be fast enough aperture-wise to get you decent exposures, but you'll either miss shots or get soft or oof results way too often.

I'd suggest picking up an $80 50mm F1.8 (the Thrifty-Fifty). It's AF is faster and I believe it will yield more keepers. Or, if you desire more reach, check out the 85mm F1.8, 100mm and 135mm F2.0 lenses. If you can get decent speeds using the Tamron, these lenses should perform exceptionally well. For those times when F2.8 won't cut it (and it looks like you were a stop slow with these shots- 1/200 versus 1/400+) the fast primes will get you shots no zoom can.

Again, not dissing your Tamron. I really like the lens. It's my main walkaround and I use it for 100% of my family flash shots. But, IMHO, it's in over it's head doing this type of shooting.

Did you shoot these using RAW? I find it really helps for easier wb tweaking and it also gives you additional exposure latitude

Anyhow, hope this helps some and keep posting your sports pics

Steve

coach-al · January 15, 2006

Hi Matt,

I just wanted to second Steve's suggestion. I've been doing a lot of gym basketball lately. I have a 70-200 2.8 that I had hoped to use. I've been in 2 gyms so far and it just isn't fast enough. I've been using the 85mm 1.8 with much better results. I also have the 50mm 1.8 but I like the 85mm better for basketball.

Here's one I took last night. The gym is pretty dark. 85mm 1.8. I was at 1600 ISO the whole time getting shutter speeds around 250 to 320. Just auto PS stuff and noise reduction software. It helps when they wear their white uniforms. They also have black, ugh... I was probably about 20 feet away on the other side behind the basket. The action is fast and furious under there. Only once did they come tumbling toward me...and they are A LOT BIGGER than I am.

Have fun. Al:)

MattGoins · January 16, 2006

Excellent suggestions, all. I don't have any good action shots simply because of the shutter speeds, everything came out very blurry.

Funding right now is the thing holding me back from getting the 70-200 2.8, which I was hoping to get sometime mid-March.

Again, thanks for all the suggestions everyone, I really appreciate the critique's. I will be taking a look at the 85mm 1.8, and the 50mm that Steve suggested.

Let me tell you one thing about basketball, you may have the greatest shots lined up...and then you get a ref's ass right in your viewfinder

Steve Cavigliano · January 16, 2006

MattGoins wrote:

Let me tell you one thing about basketball, you may have the greatest shots lined up...and then you get a ref's ass right in your viewfinder

Matt, I think you are shooting from too low of a perspective :lol :lol

Steve

TopRow · January 16, 2006

Matt, I share your frustration! I spent much of Sat eve at a gym that was way too dark--was forced to shoot 1/200 at 2.8 & ISO 1600 with my 70-200 lens, but even then was too dark. And too slow a shutter. Pretty well a wasted night--for me, my team (my boys lost BAD), and the parents who keep looking the pics. I'm very tempted to try the 50 or 85 1/8 lenses as well. And yes, I too, have had too many shots ruined by ref's getting in the way...

Of these four, I like 1 & 2 the best, if only because they have some action in them. Good luck in future games!

Steve Cavigliano · January 16, 2006

Yeah, those refs are there to keep you on your toes...lol

Sometimes though they add to the pic

While I agree F2.8 is too slow for a HS gym, you most likely won't get perfect pics right from the camera even at F2.0 That's why I recommend using RAW. It gives you the latitude to "push" those under exposed images. I'm not talking about 2 stops under. But the ones that are a stop or less under. Also, it is nice to be able to easily tweak white balance.

Steve

ian408 · January 16, 2006

I don't have much to offer over what others have said. However, just because
you don't have strobes, doesn't mean you can't light. Here is a pointer from another guy
using a 580EX, pocket wizards and some clamps.

Keep it up!

Ian

wxwax · January 16, 2006

ian408 wrote:

I don't have much to offer over what others have said. However, just because
you don't have strobes, doesn't mean you can't light. Here is a pointer from another guy
using a 580EX, pocket wizards and some clamps.

Keep it up!

Ian

Wow. That's very impressive indeed.

MattGoins · January 16, 2006

here's a question...would using the flash on the camera be ok? Again, I've always thought that would be distracting and rude.

wxwax · January 17, 2006

MattGoins wrote:

here's a question...would using the flash on the camera be ok? Again, I've always thought that would be distracting and rude.

I've never been in that situation, Matt. But here's what occurs to me.

1/ Flash would be in their eyes. Not good. Probably forbidden.

2/ Flash on camera leaves area surrounding the play very dark.

3/ Flash bounced off a ceiling (as in the link) provides much more even light.

Steve Cavigliano · January 17, 2006

Waxy's right Matt. You may be able to get around #1 by talking to the league pres/AD whatever. To me #2 is the killer. The light falloff you get using a flash on camera is pretty noticeable and some people find it objectionable. Personally, I don't like seeing really well lit players against a dark background unless it's something like hockey. This is only one man's opinion

That thread that Ian posted is a good technique to try. Redman gets some excellent bball shots. He also uses ceiling mounted strobes when he can

Steve

MattGoins · January 17, 2006

Oh yeah, I'm definitely going to take a look at that thread and see if I can piece something together like that.

Again thanks for all the suggestions and critiques. Bring on spring sports and outside lighting!

JazzyJak · January 18, 2006

MattGoins wrote:

here's a question...would using the flash on the camera be ok? Again, I've always thought that would be distracting and rude.

As someone not too, too far out of high school and a basketball player, I can tell you it's usually not that distracting... but when it is, oh man, players can get a little upset.

That said, a guy that shoots for our local newspaper uses a 420ex on a 300D with a 70-300 4-5.6 from Tamron I think, I'll have to talk settings with him sometime, but the photos that run in the newspaper usually don't have a hugely dark background, possibly shooting M with settings just at reasonable may 1/400 @f/4 to keep that background ~OK.

I use a 70-200 2.8 and the 50 1.8 and get decent results sometimes, RAW helps immensely as Steve said earlier, the ones I work up turn out pretty well for that reason. Hope some of that helps.

1) A taste...

2) Background's not all that clean, but whatever...

3) Should've sat a little lower...

Rest of my efforts
http://jeffnblairabroad.smugmug.com/Sports

MattGoins · January 18, 2006

I'm going to try shooting RAW tonight if I can make it to the game (sick kitty and fiance ><). I've got the 300mm 4/5.6 lens as well, but I've never gotten good shots with that when I've been under the basket, though I might try it from the top area.

Frustrating night of basketball

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