Do you use soft proofing?

[jfriend]

The go-cart images in this thread and the new-found ability to create (accidentally or on purpose) very vibrant colors in LAB mode caused me to really want to learn about out of gamut colors and how to understand when you have them in Photoshop and what you should do about them.

Though I barely understand how this gamut warning and printer profile stuff works in Photoshop, I think these go-cart images have colors that are out of gamut for the EzPrint printers (and probably others).

Are there any great tutorials out there on how to really use soft proofing in your normal daily workflow? And, while I generally know how to get a profile for commercial printers like EzPrints or WHCC, is there a way to get a profile for consumer printers (I have an HP Photosmart)?

Also, do many of you use soft proofing?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by jfriend

The go-cart images in this thread and the new-found ability to create (accidentally or on purpose) very vibrant colors in LAB mode caused me to really want to learn about out of gamut colors and how to understand when you have them in Photoshop and what you should do about them.

Though I barely understand how this gamut warning and printer profile stuff works in Photoshop, I think these go-cart images have colors that are out of gamut for the EzPrint printers (and probably others).

Are there any great tutorials out there on how to really use soft proofing in your normal daily workflow? And, while I generally know how to get a profile for commercial printers like EzPrints or WHCC, is there a way to get a profile for consumer printers (I have an HP Photosmart)?

Also, do many of you use soft proofing?

It's very useful for two things IMO - out of gamut, and to see if you're going to get a good print from the lab, versus what you are seeing on your screen.

We cover it pretty well in our SmugMug Help pages - enough to get started, anyhow. Got to get the ezprints.icc profile, linked on that page. Then, put it into your color profiles folder for Photoshop.

In Photoshop, I do two things, when I've done some dramatic color moves (doesn't matter how, could be LAB, or anything, really).. first check the Gamut warning:



The kart images that you linked (thanks Mercphoto!) show out of gamut warnings - you can see them in grey in the pic above.
and then I'll do a soft-proof, following the simple instructions on the help page linked above:



Actual soft proofing (click the preview on/off), will give you an idea - and will certainly tell you if you need to calibrate more, again, or even for the first time

[Andy]

Originally Posted by jfriend

Are there any great tutorials out there on how to really use soft proofing in your normal daily workflow? And, while I generally know how to get a profile for commercial printers like EzPrints or WHCC, is there a way to get a profile for consumer printers (I have an HP Photosmart)?

I can make one, but I'd love it if another member would volunteer - we should have such a tute in our Dgrin Tutorials

I do believe that you can get icc profiles for any home printer. Check your mfgr's website.

[Andy]

One more thing, which I hope benefits all:

Repeat after me: MONITORS ARE NOT PRINTERS MONITORS ARE NOT PRINTERS MONITORS ARE NOT PRINTERS MONITORS ARE NOT PRINTERS MONITORS ARE NOT PRINTERS MONITORS ARE NOT PRINTERS MONITORS ARE NOT PRINTERS MONITORS ARE NOT PRINTERS

OK - why? Your monitor is brightly lit from behind. Prints reflect the light and color. Monitors make blacker blacks, and whiter whites, typically, than photo paper. Another reason to soft-proof, print samples with the Lab, and calibrate - simply or with calibration gear.

We also have a calibration print which you can get.

[Andy]

Here's what your soft-proof should look like:


Here's what it looks like, with the "simulate paper color" checked - INcorrect:


An animation, showing the what happens if you soft-proof incorrectly:

Large file - 2Mb

[Andy]

Soft Proofing Tute over at our Tutorials site...

[Viking]

Great stuff this soft-proofing!

Shall the Black box in the Mcbeth cart be Black as BLACK? Hmm, its that black here. And it mesure L 18. The picture looks great if I set the black and white point.

where do I find adobe gamma in osx?

[dandill]

Initially I thought the route to producing an optimum print was to settle on a paper, get the best possible profile for it, and then adjust each image using soft proofing to best account for the limitations of the paper/profile/rendering intent.

Over time I have have discovered that for me this "one paper for all images" approach is too restrictive, because which paper can produce the "optimum" print is very image dependent, and, in particular, for some images with a given paper, no amount of adjustment of the image can result in a print that I would call optimum.

For this reason I currently use soft proofing differently, namely to determine the paper and rendering intent that does the best job for a given image. To use this approah one needs accurate profiles for a range of papers. In my case I use an Epson 4000 and the large library of high quality profiles freely provided for it by ColorByte Software as part of their ImagePrint Raster Image Processor software. But paper manufacturers typically provide profiles for their papers, and of course printer manufacturers also provide profiles for papers that they supply.

With a range of profiles installed, for a given image I cycle through the paper profiles, and for each one compare, by toggling Preview on and off,

Perceptual Rendering, without Black Point Coimpensation (since such compensation in incorporated automatically in Perceptual Rendering)

and

Relative Colorimetric Rendering, with Black Point Compnesation.

In this way I can usually zero in on a paper and intent that most faithfully renders a given image. For most images, most profiles and intents do not do a good job, but almost always one (or sometimes several) paper/intent combination do a great job.

Unfortunately, for the the range of images I print, no one paper works most of the time, but a set of three or four pspers covers things well.

Even if you do not print your own images, you can explore the variation of paper/intent combinations at no cost, just by downloading and installing profiles for different papers and then toggling through paper/intent combinations using soft proofing. The experience has been a real eye opener for me.

I hope this is helpful.

[Viking]

I did a software calibration. And I dont know what I think about the result, all my pictures looks sooooooo dark. But the Mcbeath color checker looks better, and darker. More contrast. the first picture is done After the calibration and the other before. Almost the some workflow.

Which one looks best ? for me the calibrated,of course..

[Oakley]

Hi Andy - So I've ordered the calibration print and am now following your soft-proofing tutorial --- but I'm stuck in Photoshop.

I have Photoshop Elements 4.0 and don't see the "Proof Setup" under the "View" menu. Is it only CS2 that has this option?

Am I s*** out of luck?

And dont' worry, I know I'm not --- cause I'm asking Mr. Problem Solver himslef. (c:

Thanks

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Oakley

Am I s*** out of luck?

And dont' worry, I know I'm not --- cause I'm asking Mr. Problem Solver himslef. (c:

Thanks

Don't think if Elements can do that. But here are a few interesting links!

http://simplephotoshop.com/photoshop...documented.htm

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/10347

[Oakley]

Originally Posted by Andy

Don't think if Elements can do that. But here are a few interesting links!

http://simplephotoshop.com/photoshop...documented.htm

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/10347

Thanks Andy, I'll check them out.

What do you know/think of Adobe Gamma and how it relates to "Monitor Calibration"

[jfriend]

Originally Posted by Oakley

I have Photoshop Elements 4.0 and don't see the "Proof Setup" under the "View" menu. Is it only CS2 that has this option?

There was no soft proofing in Elements 3 (the last version I owned) so I assume it's not in Elements 4 either.

[daroof]

Originally Posted by Andy

Don't think if Elements can do that. But here are a few interesting links!

http://simplephotoshop.com/photoshop...documented.htm

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/10347

I tried the first suggested link--looked good but is only for Windows and I'm on Mac OS X. Second link showed a few reviews on Photoshop Elements 4 that didn't sell me. Guess I'll wait to see what Elements 5 does in terms of soft proofing. May just stick with Elements 2!

Someone on a thread I read earlier this evening (sorry, they all blend after a while) suggested "Earthbound Light" software for curves and channel work, and I think she said it offers soft proofs too. If I look into that, I'll post.

BTW, this is my first post. Hence the smiley bowing to the master grinners. Follows Andy's prompt, he said you folks don't bite!

[Andy]

Originally Posted by daroof

BTW, this is my first post. Hence the smiley bowing to the master grinners. Follows Andy's prompt, he said you folks don't bite!

welcome to Dgrin!

[diamondmask]

I followed the directions for soft proofing, but my views menu has the "preview" box grayed out. I can't see the icc file.... any thoughts?

Oh, this is my first or second post here too. I'm new to smugmug....

john

[Aaron Jors]

I am trying to understand soft proofing and have a couple questions.

1. I have a photo where when I check the Gamut colors I get gray areas. Do I have the correct understanding that these gray areas will not print correctly and I have to make the gray go away?

2. Once you set up soft proofing and click OK the screen shows the soft proof changes. How do I get back to viewing the regular image without soft proof and the EZ prints profile?

[arodney]

Originally Posted by jfriend

The go-cart images in this thread and the new-found ability to create (accidentally or on purpose) very vibrant colors in LAB mode caused me to really want to learn about out of gamut colors and how to understand when you have them in Photoshop and what you should do about them.

Lesson one, be careful about using Lab, a VERY oversold color model!

Are there any great tutorials out there on how to really use soft proofing in your normal daily workflow?

http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200409_rodneycm.pdf
http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200411_rodneycm.pdf

And you need to understand how to VIEW the prints you soft proof:

http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200604_rodneycm.pdf
http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200605_rodneycm.pdf

[pathfinder]

Originally Posted by Aaron Jors

I am trying to understand soft proofing and have a couple questions.

1. I have a photo where when I check the Gamut colors I get gray areas. Do I have the correct understanding that these gray areas will not print correctly and I have to make the gray go away?

2. Once you set up soft proofing and click OK the screen shows the soft proof changes. How do I get back to viewing the regular image without soft proof and the EZ prints profile?

On a Mac, typing cmd+Y will toggle you between the soft proof image, and your previous working space image. Probably, the ctrl+Y will do the same on a PC.

I want to thank Andrew for those links concerning soft proofing. I intend to study them carefully, as soft proofing is a subject that is of growing interest to me lately also.

[arodney]

Soft proofing in action (video) is well described here:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/vi...ra-print.shtml