I did a TFCD shoot some months back for a fitness guru and blogger named Cassey, and this was one of the shots.



She sent me this link the other day to an ABC News video. Check out the opening shot.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/youtu...8#.UEKM7eOe5qY

And no, I got no credit, and no permission, nothing. Do I care? Nope. Sure, I would have preferred a photo credit. But it's not worth making a big deal over. I gave the photos to Cassey to use as she liked, and as far as I'm concerned, this is fair usage.

Oh, and guess what? Now I'm doing some paid commercial work for her. What goes around comes around I guess.

Cheers,
-joel

Originally Posted by kdog I did a TFCD shoot some months back for a fitness guru and blogger named Cassey, and this was one of the shots. Oh, and guess what? Now I'm doing some paid commercial work for her. What goes around comes around I guess.

And I bet 100 hopefulls will read this and use it as an excuse to give their work away because of the 1 in 10,000 times this strategy has worked. Giving work away to models then thinking they will come back and pay for more work is a giant leap of faith but nice to see you found one of the few loyal people who will give back some of what they got. Look after this girl, she is a rare one indeed.

At least this is nice to read instead of the usual " I slathered my shots all over the internet and now I'm all bent and twisted because someone used them without my permission and I'm going to carry on like I have been mortally wounded by it and want a Million bux compensation" type deals we read weekly.

Why the hell people have an incessant need to put pics on the net for no particular reason and then get so upset because someone uses them is beyond me.

I had some sleezy little germ not only steal my pics some years ago, he stole my whole damn business site. Just changed the name and details but didn't even remember that on one page. He wasn't far from me and when I rang him about it he was a real smart little tosser and said because he changed some words it was now his site and the pics were public domain.

Not only did he use the pics, he hotlinked them.
Big Mistake.

I found some very unsavory pics, swapped the URL of some of the pics on my site and then had a few friends write complaints messages screaming blue murder to his ISP. The entire site disappeared in a night and It never reappeared again.
Needless to say the clown and his " Business" disappeared almost as quick.

Originally Posted by kdog I did a TFCD shoot some months back for a fitness guru and blogger named Cassey, and this was one of the shots. And no, I got no credit, and no permission, nothing. Do I care? Nope. Sure, I would have preferred a photo credit. But it's not worth making a big deal over. I gave the photos to Cassey to use as she liked, and as far as I'm concerned, this is fair usage.

One assumes the point of tfcd was to give her promotional usage for her career, which this clearly is. So, no issue.

Originally Posted by kdog I gave the photos to Cassey to use as she liked, and as far as I'm concerned, this is fair usage. l

Well, if you gave her the photos carte blanche to *use as she liked*, then there is no expectation of payment or credit from a third party that she allowed to use the photos- thus no problem.

The poster in the other thread didn't extend unlimited usage to his friend- and this is borne out by the friend going out of her way to give the magazine the copyright information on the photos- which the magazine then ignored.

Two very different scenarios.

Your now a published photographer!

Sam

Good call on the image usage as well. I mean seriously why would a model agree to a TFP session is she couldn't use the images to promote herself? Would the photographer?

Originally Posted by Glort And I bet 100 hopefulls will read this and use it as an excuse to give their work away because of the 1 in 10,000 times this strategy has worked. Giving work away to models then thinking they will come back and pay for more work is a giant leap of faith but nice to see you found one of the few loyal people who will give back some of what they got. Look after this girl, she is a rare one indeed.

Thanks Glort. But I didn't give anything away -- I traded. I wanted a female fitness shoot under my belt and I got it. I've been working on my portrait skills and developing my portfolio. I'm to the point now where I'm confident in my abilities to do paid shoots and my portfolio has been opening doors for me. There's a gentleman who owns a local talent agency and had me shoot 20 girls in bikinis recently and I made a few bucks from that. If you don't have pictures of hot looking babes in bikinis in your port, nobody is going to hire you to do more. I'm sure I don't need to tell you that.





So yeah, I'm still at the stage where I'm developing my skills and portfolio. I've done a ton of TFCD to get where I'm at and pleased with my progress. Now a bit of money is starting to trickle in and I can be more selective in my trades. Some day free shoots may be as unthinkable to me as it is to you. But for now, it's one step at a time and I'm grateful for gals like Cassey that I've had the opportunity to work with. One step at a time.

Originally Posted by orljustin One assumes the point of tfcd was to give her promotional usage for her career, which this clearly is. So, no issue.

Originally Posted by Blaker Well, if you gave her the photos carte blanche to *use as she liked*, then there is no expectation of payment or credit from a third party that she allowed to use the photos- thus no problem. The poster in the other thread didn't extend unlimited usage to his friend- and this is borne out by the friend going out of her way to give the magazine the copyright information on the photos- which the magazine then ignored. Two very different scenarios.

I don't understand this mindset at all. The other gentleman was PAID for his work, by a friend no less! He agreed to do a job for a price, did it and got his compensation. It's done. Frankly I have no idea what the agreement was between that gentleman and his friend to know if any agreement was violated and neither do you because those details weren't given. Did he have something in his agreement that said specifically that electronically delivered images can't be submitted to magazines for publication? And why would he? If you buy a car, and decide to charge somebody for a ride to the airport, does the car manufacturer come after you for a cut? That photographer is making noises like he was harmed in some way -- folks making money of his hard work! I don't see it. He agreed to do a job for a certain fee and he did it. The customer bought those images and can do as they see fit. Anybody that has to follow every picture they ever took to make sure their customers (much less friends) aren't unduly benefiting from them has way too much free time on their hands. Not to mention it's bad karma.

Originally Posted by Sam Your now a published photographer! Sam Good call on the image usage as well. I mean seriously why would a model agree to a TFP session is she couldn't use the images to promote herself? Would the photographer?

Thanks, Sam. Absolutely. It's good for everybody.

BTW, there's also one of Cassey's pictures from that shoot on page 26 of the July/August issue of Fitness Magazine. I didn't make a big deal of it because they cropped one of my shots and turned it into a headshot. Disappointing, yes. But I'm still not calling my lawyer over it.

Joel, looks like the situation turned out fine for everyone concerned. And way better then when this guy's photo ended up in a movie.

Originally Posted by kdog Thanks, Sam. Absolutely. It's good for everybody. BTW, there's also one of Cassey's pictures from that shoot on page 26 of the July/August issue of Fitness Magazine. I didn't make a big deal of it because they cropped one of my shots and turned it into a headshot. Disappointing, yes. But I'm still not calling my lawyer over it.

I'd still try to call or contact the magazine editor. It shows they liked your work enough to publish and not take their own photo. Like I suggested in the other thread, it can open doors. I'm not suggesting you get money for that shot, but the next one in that magazine you very well could. What if that shot had been on the cover?

..BTW very nice work!! :)

Originally Posted by David_S85 Joel, looks like the situation turned out fine for everyone concerned. And way better then when this guy's photo ended up in a movie.

Good old Sid.

Originally Posted by jww I'd still try to call or contact the magazine editor. It shows they liked your work enough to publish and not take their own photo. Like I suggested in the other thread, it can open doors. I'm not suggesting you get money for that shot, but the next one in that magazine you very well could. What if that shot had been on the cover? ..BTW very nice work!! :)

Thanks jww! That's really not a bad idea at all. Couldn't hurt.

Originally Posted by kdog Thanks jww! That's really not a bad idea at all. Couldn't hurt.

Most welcome! I always try and look for a positive result. From the few shots I saw, you're really really good! I am sure they would love to see some more work from you. ...just never know!

Originally Posted by kdog Thanks Glort. But I didn't give anything away -- I traded. I wanted a female fitness shoot under my belt and I got it. I've been working on my portrait skills and developing my portfolio. I'm to the point now where I'm confident in my abilities to do paid shoots and my portfolio has been opening doors for me.

I think I misread/Misunderstood your initial post.
I'd like to put that down to having shot 2000 kids in the last week and printed photo packages for them but the cause is more likely to be the fact I'm just dense a lot of the time.

Having confidence in your work is a HUGE factor in getting more work. Hopefully the realisation has now set in for you that yes you are " good enough" and people aren't just saying things to be nice. Took me some time to work that out when I was starting off in a few different things.

I still do TFP shoots for wanna be models just to keep my hand in. A lot of the time it's frustrating dealing with the brainless bimbos and then you meet a girl who is intelligent, gracious and just a plain nice person and it makes it all worth while. I get to enjoy a little ego trip by being able to slingshot them a ways with connections I have and just pointing them in the right direction.

I like your comment about hot Chicks. To me this one is indeed hot. Her breasts are real.
If there is one thing that puts me off shooting with a girl it's fake tits. When I do look for someone to shoot with and put up a casting on a site, I specifically say I want to only work with girls with natural chests.

Apart from being a strange bloke that does not like Big boobs or find them in the least bit attractive, I fully believe in the breast to brain inverse proportion theory.

Anyway, you have some real nice shots there and hopefully your collaboration will be successful in it's intended purpose of getting you both more work.

The last pic you posted of her - her right hand looks good to you ?

Originally Posted by jwear The last pic you posted of her - her right hand looks good to you ?

Not particularly, Jeff. Her palm is dyed red from smearing spray-on suntan all over her body. Thanks for asking though.

Originally Posted by kdog Not particularly, Jeff. Her palm is dyed red from smearing spray-on suntan all over her body. Thanks for asking though.

Yep that would be the color ,worth a touch of PS . Good work

Originally Posted by jwear Yep that would be the color ,worth a touch of PS . Good work

Thank, Jeff! That's actually a real tricky touchup. I tried for a few minutes and decided there was no way I could do a decent job on it. You're not supposed to be looking at her palms anyway.

Originally Posted by kdog Thank, Jeff! That's actually a real tricky touchup. I tried for a few minutes and decided there was no way I could do a decent job on it. You're not supposed to be looking at her palms anyway.

That was my point

Originally Posted by kdog I don't understand this mindset at all. The other gentleman was PAID for his work, by a friend no less! He agreed to do a job for a price, did it and got his compensation. It's done. Frankly I have no idea what the agreement was between that gentleman and his friend to know if any agreement was violated and neither do you because those details weren't given. Did he have something in his agreement that said specifically that electronically delivered images can't be submitted to magazines for publication? And why would he? If you buy a car, and decide to charge somebody for a ride to the airport, does the car manufacturer come after you for a cut? That photographer is making noises like he was harmed in some way -- folks making money of his hard work! I don't see it. He agreed to do a job for a certain fee and he did it. The customer bought those images and can do as they see fit. Anybody that has to follow every picture they ever took to make sure their customers (much less friends) aren't unduly benefiting from them has way too much free time on their hands. Not to mention it's bad karma.

Your comments above reflect your ignorance of US copyright and licensing laws.

I think, esp if you are trying to break into the business of photography, it would be well worth your time to educate yourself about copyright and licensing .

Then, once you are aware of how copyright and licensing laws work, you are free to either protect your copyright , or to just let anyone take your photos and use them to make money for themselves.

Whatever decisions you make in running your business, should be made with full knowledge , not with notions that you just pull out of the air.

Originally Posted by Blaker Your comments above reflect your ignorance of US copyright and licensing laws. I think, esp if you are trying to break into the business of photography, it would be well worth your time to educate yourself about copyright and licensing . Then, once you are aware of how copyright and licensing laws work, you are free to either protect your copyright , or to just let anyone take your photos and use them to make money for themselves. Whatever decisions you make in running your business, should be made with full knowledge , not with notions that you just pull out of the air.

Don't tell me what I know or don't know. You have no idea what I know about copyright or licensing because I proffered no opinion on the subject one way or another. Furthermore, you have absolutely no idea what level of agreement or contracts there were between the other photographer and their clients. What I was getting at is even if there was a copyright violation, I don't understand the mindset that says you have to hammer your friend over the head with the law just because you can.

Now that other gentleman's lawyer suggested he drop the issue. So if you have strong feelings on the matter, I suggest you go do it in his thread. I'm sure he'd love to have you.