Originally Posted by wfeller :-) I'd like to find out who the original photographers were on the most recent mural: http://www.flickr.com/photos/barstowsteve/7502789858/ (Note the signature of the "Master Artist" on the lower left in the credits several shots into the set) http://www.flickr.com/photos/barstowsteve/7515073774/ There isn't a a mural on the Texas BBQ, but there is one across from the building- I haven't verified whether or not it is the DVD photo cover. I have found the licensor, if it is in fact that image. -

You mean this one?
Source: http://109daysingreensburgpa.blogspo...f-bobcats.html




To match the mural of this:




Me thinks there's a pattern going on here.


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Originally Posted by M38A1 I And I found this on MSM's site indicating Kathy Fierro as part of the "team" representing Main St. Murals. Not that the skatepark project is your work, but this sure seems to show a strong connection between MSM and the artist. .

She's in the IRS form as 'vice president' @ an average 4hrs / week.

pp

Cool. What was the search string? If we could find the original photographer that would be excellent.

Originally Posted by wfeller Cool. What was the search string? If we could find the original photographer that would be excellent.

"bobcat" lol.... yeah, it was that simple. Check your PM's.


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pp - also notice in the IRS form she's not listed as an interested person as is the president. I would tend to think the president/coordinator would be responsible as she's being paid to oversee and coordinate the project would also be responsible for the permissions on the painter's choice of subjects.

It will be another day or two before I can do anymore updating to the page at
http://aeve.com/1ssc/

But there are 13 organizations involved in this overall partnership. These two people, in my opinion have put all of these partners' as well as the city of Barstow at risk.

I've added a letter from the National Park Service Superintendent of the Mojave National Preserve to the pages:
http://aeve.com/1ssc/2-reply-nps.html

Which was the response to my letter:
http://aeve.com/1ssc/2-letter-to-dubois.html

In my response to the certified letter I was sent:
http://aeve.com/1ssc/1-reply-nps.html

That was sent to make sure I read this letter:
http://aeve.com/1ssc/1-msm-07-30-12.html

In response to the initial invoice I sent Main Street Murals:
http://aeve.com/1ssc/1-invoice-07-02-12.html

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BTW- if anyone would like to share the top page link:
http://aeve.com/1ssc/

On facebook or any other forum, please feel free to, I'd appreciate it.

You said to me once, and I'm paraphrasing, slightly out of context, that a lot of the people out there have no standard of comparison. They may have huge grants for this, but they'll feel pretty insular. I'd hope they'd step up and make things right, but I think they'll probably just whitewash everything (literally and figuratively). NPS and BLM have bigger problems out there, and probably won't do much to lean on MSM for you. The grant sources might, they are pretty professionally run and won't want to see their money wasted.

(MSM animal mural photo can be seen here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/barstow...n/photostream/)

Or Getty Images might help, pretty sure this is the coyote:

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/148...7DkMWy5NoMWOll


or maybe Istock photo:
http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbvie...-tail-hawk.jpg



another stock photo for the sidewinder
http://www.visualphotos.com/photo/1x...der_3w9238.jpg

I spent way too long on the train this morning:

scorpion image is this one, but I can't figure out the origin
http://rateeveryanimal.com/wp-conten...2/scorpion.gif
I can't even figure out the species of this one, I've seen lots of scorpions in the Mojave, never seen one with such a dark (preabdomen?).



Mountain Lion image is this one- but again, reverse image search isn't giving me the original

http://www.duiops.net/seresvivos/gal...0wallpaper.jpg



Hopefully these sites don't mind the image linking, dgrin can't use up too much of their bandwidth, can it? I'd have just linked the tine eye search, but those searches only stay active a day or two.

Wow- this is amazing. I have to let my head regroup. Thanks! .... Woe. Wow..

Kolibri -
Your internet-fu is strong.


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Originally Posted by wfeller Wow- this is amazing. I have to let my head regroup. Thanks! .... Woe. Wow..

Flikr 'folder' which includes the higher res shot of the animals murals is now password protected- I had screenshots I was using on the train, still have them.

Great eye kolibri! This is invaluable-

I'm floored by how little is changed from the photos (I have a few screen shots of the mural).

You'll also notice the mainstreetmurals.org site no longer shows who their sponsors are. They used to wave that all over the place. I think what they have done to Barstow, the high desert, the art community is despicable--this all could have been such a beautiful thing- Meaningful to so many people and a positive experience for a long time to come. Instead, Jane and Kathy have 'pansed' the entire community.

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Originally Posted by wfeller Great eye kolibri! This is invaluable- I'm floored by how little is changed from the photos (I have a few screen shots of the mural). You'll also notice the mainstreetmurals.org site no longer shows who their sponsors are. They used to wave that all over the place. I think what they have done to Barstow, the high desert, the art community is despicable--this all could have been such a beautiful thing- Meaningful to so many people and a positive experience for a long time to come. Instead, Jane and Kathy have 'pansed' the entire community. -

THere's always google cache, or the way back machine. Hard to make things disappear these days.


Just how much does need to be changed from a photo if it doesn't have a creative commons license?
I'm sure it goes without saying that there are many local photographers that would have photos of these animals they would have lent to the project, with attribution. Or landscapes, or plants. Many locals would have felt the same as the painter, who talks about how she 'gets' to do the sets for her church, many would have liked to have 'gotten' their photos used. They probably wouldn't have been as well done as your landscape. Or they could have gone for a truly artistic route, and used artist's photos for a fee with attribution, and advertised the heck out of the art angle.

Or do what the NPS does, and run a photo contest, with the fine print saying that they can use any contributed photos for the mural.

In theater we had rules about how much we had to alter costumes that inspired new costumes. Best thing would have been one of the options above, but say the muralist had 5 mountain lion photos, and was painting from them as inspiration, how much would the final photo have had to have been changed from any individual photo for it to truly be 'fair use', or strictly legal? I remember the discussion 4 years ago about the Obama hope poster and thinking that I thought that was a stretch of the 'fair use' claim. I'd have liked to have seen the settlement on that one.

I have had funding from the Desert Legacy grant, they have a good program, I dislike seeing other recipients be so careless with their money, but if you have little education in the matter.... Hard to believe in the days of the internet that people could remain so oblivious, but if you don't go looking for the information, it's easy to avoid seeing what you don't want to see.

So, according to the .pdf referenced for the grant funding in 2010, is Jane Laraman-Brockhurst married to David Brockhurst? Brother/sister? Husband/wife? Seems a bit odd the Project Director (Jane Laraman-Brockhurst) would be related to the Project Designer (David Brockhurst) of the same name. ie: One gets $$$/one receives $$$ and I'd seriously doubt the work is all pro-bono at the design level Off Limits Design appears to create.

Re: the ADA issue, apparently all the work was completed based on the following. They even mention ADA violations in their grant proposal, but they're not completed? Might be worth a trip down to check it out and photograph?
Source: http://www.desertdiscoverycenter.com/
In 2010 work began on a $700,000 renovation project to refit the building with a new roof, a new HAVC system, and re-design and construct a new classroom for the center. This project is set to be complete by the summer of 2011


I still believe your best bet is to go straight for the fraud 'artist' Kathy Fierro. She's the one ultimately responsible for the location, theft and subsequent use of your copyrighted artwork without permission or payment. I see now that MSM has removed the link to her "Animals of the Mojave Desert" mural, so I'm quite sure they are attempting to distance themselves from her. If she's a professional artist, she most probably has a liability insurance policy of some type, or would fall back to residing under one of MSM or one of the related organizations.

From what I'm gathering, this is first about payment for your copyrighted and subsequently stolen work of art (photo), secondly, getting MSM and related organizations to be more informed about copyright law, and finally, securing the proper ADA upgrades to the facility which has received a considerable amount of grant funding to do, but hasn't been done. Right?


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There may be something in the mail for me either today or tomorrow. As I mentioned previously, sometimes it's good to have a few surprises.

Barstow is a great town to visit just about anytime. :)

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A quick update--notice the website has replaced the wildlife mural photo with Jane and Kathy and the kids at the installation site with one of just the kids and the mural panels at the Desert Discovery Center.

http://www.mainstreetmurals.com/

Originally Posted by wfeller A quick update--notice the website has replaced the wildlife mural photo with Jane and Kathy and the kids at the installation site with one of just the kids and the mural panels at the Desert Discovery Center. http://www.mainstreetmurals.com/

At least they didn't use one of your reflection lake photos for the ice age mural :)

Although, it would be nice to see one of the actual ranges on the ice age mural, the ranges haven't changed significantly since the mega-fauna walked here. I also think that it would have been a pinyon-juniper forest up to the shorelines and river edges back then. I wonder if they consulted with Marith Reheis or anybody about what it would have looked like.

Actually I'm thinking the mountain on that mural looks like Cowhole Mountain at the far end of Soda Lake- so it may be authentic.

Stay tuned. Her attorney called again today and said wait another week.

This has been a great educational experience. Thanks for posting all of the details so we can all learn.

Is there an easy way to use google to search on a similar image? For example, if I have an image that I want to find all occurances of on the net, is that possible?

Thanks, Jim

Originally Posted by fjcvisual This has been a great educational experience. Thanks for posting all of the details so we can all learn. Is there an easy way to use google to search on a similar image? For example, if I have an image that I want to find all occurances of on the net, is that possible? Thanks, Jim

I think you would have to find it in image search first, then click on 'similar images' once it's found. That's how the bobcat photo image worked. Whoever shot that missed out by uploading the original somewhere, it went viral and is now all over the place without credit. Beautiful photo. I'd hope that would be the photographer's original intention, to put it in the public domain. I wouldn't/couldn't do that. But I'm not sure--I'm astounded at what's been found.

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My thoughts on a photo like the bobcat being used in a mural such as the wildlife mural, are that if you can't find the original author to get written authorization and provide proper credit, then it shouldn't be used. I've seen a lot of bobcat photos not only on the net, but in private collections where the photographer would be thrilled to have their shot be included, and receive a stipend for it. What a great way that would be to encourage participation--credit the photographers and invite them to the ribbon cutting. The way the MSM program is being run now is, IMO, self-centered.

link
This is a photo of the wildlife mural on public display in downtown Barstow.



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