Semi pro football C&C

dbveto · August 1, 2011

Here are some shots I took from a football game on Saturday, I was not intending to shoot this game but their photo guy was not able to make it so they asked me to shoot. I would appreciate any constructive criticism.

#1

#2

#3

#4

#5

johng · August 2, 2011

The following comments are based upon viewing the images at "full size" (using the 'full size' icon below each image). Biggest issue is it appears you over-cropped these photos. You need to frame tightly in-camera. 200mm can be difficult to shoot football with, but you can do it if you're patient and wait for the action to be close enough. The final image framing is good in most of these, but looking at the photos I think you relied too much on cropping to get this final framing. I'm also guessing that since most of these are f5.6/6.3 you're using a consumer grade lens wide open - that can make it difficult to obtain quality focus speed and get sharp results. The 1/500 shutter speeds also hurt you here.

Shot 1: Good exposure setting in difficult lighting. Focus is off though - trailing player, #5 is in better focus than the ball carrier as is the player on the turf. Red highlights are blown but I'm ok with that to get faces looking properly exposed. The real issue here is the back-focus

shot 2: doesn't really work for me. Is that the ball carrier about to land on his behind? Not sure - can't see the ball. No one in this image is sharp - again this looks to be an issue where you cropped heavily.

shot 3: framing is good but again, no one is really sharp. The turf often gives a great indication of where the focal plane is - if you look at that it appears the focal plane is behind the runner, somewhere in front of #52 on the defense.

shot 4: nice framing. Again a lack of sharpness - in this one, your shutter speed might be really hurting you - 1/500 is awfully slow. That, plus potential over-cropping means the image doesn't have the detail to support the current framing.

shot 5: again good final framing but poor detail. I'm beginning to sense part of the problem may be your panning technique: when you look at the turf in this shot it's quite blurred - I think you might be jerking the camera a bit too much for 1/500 to get you sharp results.

So, you definitely need faster shutter speeds. Probably want to frame tighter in-camera and crop less and a bit of practice on your technique so it isn't so jerky - but hey, no one is great right out of the gate. And, depending on the lens you're using, you might need to consider an upgrade if you intend to shoot field sports. You've got some good instincts for how to frame the final shot but the detail isn't there right now to support that final image. Unfortunately, it's probably a combination of factors involved and not just one thing.

JSPhotography · August 2, 2011

Another thing I think you need to go for is contact. Football is a contact sport and you need that in your images. I saw this acronym the other day, FACT - Faces, action, contact, toy(football).

jonh68 · August 2, 2011

You were shooting in daylight so your ss should have been high enough to not have blur, even with a slow lens. You also need to get lower to the ground if you want your pics to stand out. Most everybody shoots standing up. With athletes, they get low to the ground for a strong athletic base. With photogrpahers standing up, athletes getting a little lower in their stance, it makes for smaller looking players and not too dynamic of a shot. Getting low and shooting high makes for more dynamic shots.

dbveto · August 2, 2011

Thanks for the comments. Part of the problem was that this was not a planned shoot for me, I went to watch the game and of course I had my camera but not with my best lens the owner of the red team asked if I would shoot, I only shot the first half because the lighting was getting bad.
The first two where the same play.
Again thanks for the feed back.

dbveto · August 2, 2011

jonh68 wrote: »

You were shooting in daylight so your ss should have been high enough to not have blur, even with a slow lens. You also need to get lower to the ground if you want your pics to stand out. Most everybody shoots standing up. With athletes, they get low to the ground for a strong athletic base. With photogrpahers standing up, athletes getting a little lower in their stance, it makes for smaller looking players and not too dynamic of a shot. Getting low and shooting high makes for more dynamic shots.

Yes I know getting low is one thing I need to do and I am working on that (still rehabbing a replaced knee).
I post here just for your guys/gals critic so thanks for taking the time.

dbveto · August 2, 2011

JSPhotography wrote: »

Another thing I think you need to go for is contact. Football is a contact sport and you need that in your images. I saw this acronym the other day, FACT - Faces, action, contact, toy(football).

Thats what I was going for with #2 the runner had just been hit.
Thank you for your comments.

DHMN69 · August 2, 2011

jonh68 wrote: »

You were shooting in daylight so your ss should have been high enough to not have blur, even with a slow lens. You also need to get lower to the ground if you want your pics to stand out. Most everybody shoots standing up. With athletes, they get low to the ground for a strong athletic base. With photogrpahers standing up, athletes getting a little lower in their stance, it makes for smaller looking players and not too dynamic of a shot. Getting low and shooting high makes for more dynamic shots.

I personally try not to get down low often when shooting football unless I'm shooting from the back of the end zone.. you can't get out of the way of a 250 lb football player coming at you if you're on your knees. I did at the high school state tournament in November since we were all back farther than we would be for a regular game and it wasn't likely that players would end up there. The other thing is with a 70-200 I use, I'm roaming the sideline constantly from play to play so that makes it a big more difficult also. If I were stuck in one spot for an entire game like NFL or D1 NCAA shooters likely are then I probably would do that.

As for the photos, I'd like the 4th one best if there had been a bit more shutter speed. I might crop it showing a bit more to the left rather than the right but that (along with the above) is my personal preference

jonh68 · August 2, 2011

DHMN69 wrote: »

I personally try not to get down low often when shooting football unless I'm shooting from the back of the end zone.. you can't get out of the way of a 250 lb football player coming at you if you're on your knees. I did at the high school state tournament in November since we were all back farther than we would be for a regular game and it wasn't likely that players would end up there. The other thing is with a 70-200 I use, I'm roaming the sideline constantly from play to play so that makes it a big more difficult also. If I were stuck in one spot for an entire game like NFL or D1 NCAA shooters likely are then I probably would do that.

As for the photos, I'd like the 4th one best if there had been a bit more shutter speed. I might crop it showing a bit more to the left rather than the right but that (along with the above) is my personal preference

Just because you are low doesn't mean you are rooted to the ground. You can move around, find a place, and take a knee like the football players do during timeouts. I have seen people get run over standing on the sidelines. If you are low, all you got to do is drop lower. I've shot Div I NCAA football and the photogs move around and yes, get low to the ground.

pipster · August 2, 2011

While you may have some and just did not post them remember that there are parents of the interior linemen that like to see their kids in action also.

johng · August 3, 2011

I'm with Jonh68 - UNLESS you have a physical issue like the OP. When I shoot HS football I'm constantly roaming to follow the action - when I set I set at a kneel. Yep, sometimes you have to move out of the way. And, if you had a physical impediment to doing that quickly then standing may be required. But if it's just laziness, that's another issue. No disgrace with having bad knee or back that prevents the up/down. But if you're otherwise healthy, you should definitely be getting low.

By the way, I agree with the other poster - give those linemen some love too:

dbveto · August 3, 2011

As someone who played left Tackle (looong time ago) I do shoot the lineman.
The lineman for the team I shoot for tell me that I am the only one they know that shoots the lineman.
I just did not have any right now that I thought were worthy of Critic. And I know about getting hit standing in one game twice I flew about 6ft back after the play came to the sidelines, I learned to be more aware

wink

I am working on being able to take a knee for more of my shoots, I have a game this Saturday so hopefully will get some shots to post.

dbveto · August 3, 2011

These are not my best they are just my examples of my lineman shots
#1

#2

#3

dbaker1221 · August 3, 2011

Well you are right in my area... I shoot the Lake Geneva generals for the paper....I know you are shooting at 7pm. It actually looks like the biggest problem to me is the focus being off & overexposed a bit too much. I think Racine's uniforms are a little darker red.

dbveto · August 3, 2011

dbaker1221 wrote: »

Well you are right in my area... I shoot the Lake Geneva generals for the paper....I know you are shooting at 7pm. It actually looks like the biggest problem to me is the focus being off & overexposed a bit too much. I think Racine's uniforms are a little darker red.

Hey thats cool those Generals are on a tear.
The first pics are of the Racine threat, and the bottom three are just examples that I do shoot lineman they are of the Raiders. The Raiders Uniforms are Maroon.

MDalby · August 4, 2011

johng wrote: »

I'm with Jonh68 - UNLESS you have a physical issue like the OP. When I shoot HS football I'm constantly roaming to follow the action - when I set I set at a kneel. Yep, sometimes you have to move out of the way. And, if you had a physical impediment to doing that quickly then standing may be required. But if it's just laziness, that's another issue. No disgrace with having bad knee or back that prevents the up/down. But if you're otherwise healthy, you should definitely be getting low.

By the way, I agree with the other poster - give those linemen some love too:

John,

Nice shot. I will be using a tripod with strobes this season so kneeling is going to be tough. Your shot is also with a flash, correct? Was your flash on camera to be able to kneel and get low? I don't see shadows in the helmet.

johng · August 4, 2011

My flash is mounted on my monopod below the camera. No issues whatsoever with kneeling down with a setup like this:

johng · August 4, 2011

mdalby - just re-read your post. No way you should be using a tripod - that's a safety risk. Ditch the tripod idea or make sure you have your liability premiums paid in full.

dbveto · August 4, 2011

johng wrote: »

My flash is mounted on my monopod below the camera. No issues whatsoever with kneeling down with a setup like this:

I love that setup. As soon as I get a new Flash(one with ext battery pack) I plan on trying that setup out, I love the way it lights the subject without the huge shadows or red eye.

MDalby · August 4, 2011

johng wrote: »

mdalby - just re-read your post. No way you should be using a tripod - that's a safety risk. Ditch the tripod idea or make sure you have your liability premiums paid in full.

What? You are using a tripod and you tell me to ditch my tripod? I am not following you.

MDalby · August 4, 2011

John,

My tripod setup looks a lot like yours.

dbveto · August 4, 2011

MDalby wrote: »

What? You are using a tripod and you tell me to ditch my tripod? I am not following you.

I believe he is using a Mono pod (1leg) Tripod (3 legs)

dbveto · August 4, 2011

MDalby wrote: »

John,

My tripod setup looks a lot like yours.

How are the two flashed connected ?

MDalby · August 4, 2011

dbveto wrote: »

I believe he is using a Mono pod (1leg) Tripod (3 legs)

Sheesh.. I am an idiot. Of course you can't use a tripod. I just had a brain cramp and typed wrong. I meant monopod.

MDalby · August 4, 2011

dbveto wrote: »

How are the two flashed connected ?

You just have one of the flashes set up as a master and the other as a slave. Unfortunately, the slave requires flash bounce from the master to trigger. When you shoot outdoors the flash bounce/reflection for the slave is very inconsistent and you will get misfires. I have some fiber that goes from the master to the slave input point to trigger the slave.

JimKarczewski · August 7, 2011

I know 2 flashes are only going to give you 1 stop extra, is it really worth it? I mean, I've seen a lot of good work off just one, can't see where 1 stop extra of light is going to be that beneficial, especially when you're already shooting high ISO's.

I thought, I could be wrong, I saw a splitter somewhere for flash cables.... I could be wrong

jonh68 · August 7, 2011

MDalby wrote: »

John,

My tripod setup looks a lot like yours.

Yikes that looks complicated and too much gear to be walking up and down the sidelines with. I'll take great ISO performance and use on camera flash for fill in the deadzones if needed.

Semi pro football C&C

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