priceless moments marketing

joshhuntnmjoshhuntnm Registered Users Posts: 1,924 Major grins
edited October 3, 2011 in Weddings

Comments

  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited October 5, 2010
    For more reasons than the fact that I see a cheap Costco tripod and a kit zoom in the background, I'm gonna say "bogus!" on this one.

    Okay, let me be more specific: If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Or if it IS actually true, it's probably shady.

    Of course I am making this judgment based on NOTHING other than my gut reaction to watching the video and perusing their website. The wording, the branding, it all just makes me want to steer clear. SO, I apologize in advance if this is actually a legit and profitable business opportunity. But I think I'll pass...

    =Matt=

    [EDIT] After a quick Google search, I find NOTHING substantial about this company. RULE NUMBER ONE ON THE INTERNET: "No news is BAD NEWS."
    My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug PortfolioMy Astro-Landscape Photo BlogDgrin Weddings Forum
  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited October 6, 2010
    I am with Matt here.

    But, hey why do you need them to try this marketing methodology??

    Give it a try at your local jewelry store.

    You could think about offering the store ring photos, and photos of the happy couple with their new (put jewelry store name here) ring.

    I would think the couple would really enjoy seeing thier photo in the jewelry store, and / or in the mall. Another reason for the couple to buy their ring at that particular store!!

    On second thought, I am going to franchise this concept. I have just copyrighted / patented, and trademarked the entire concept.

    Sam
  • travisjtravisj Registered Users Posts: 1 Beginner grinner
    edited July 19, 2011
    I'm curious how that all turned out with Priceless Moments Marketing. When they first came out - for sure - i thought - they were going to "revolutionize" the industry... Turns out in the past year I've never heard from them after applying...


    Anyone?

    Their business setup is flushed out a little more in their Q&A sections.
    You certainly aren’t going to send me business for free…so how much is this going to cost me?[/B]
    Unlike any other kind of marketing, pricing for this program is structured so that you only pay for what you get. A good comparison would be if your print ad only charged you for the brides that called you and that you actually met with, and that bought something from you. That would be a great deal wouldn't it? Well of course, that will never happen. But that is what we are doing here. Each jeweler will have differing volume, so there is not a set price per store. But a store that sells about 120 rings per year (which means 120 engagement shoots, and should mean at least 30 weddings for you) will cost you about $1200 per year, which we are happy to split into 12 payments for you.

    We structure the payment plan such that you start out with a guarantee. If we do not meet that guarantee, you are credited or refunded a pro-rated difference, and your monthly membership fee will be adjusted according to the average. Of course, if your average is higher, then your membership fee would increase, but only once per year.

    By comparison, David's Bridal offers an exclusive in-store marketing program that has photographers in about 65% of their stores, and they charge over $400 per month for their in-store program, with no guarantee at all. They do not provide any direct contact information to their clients either, and do not directly promote or talk about you with the customers either. It is just for exclusive placement in their store. So we are a far better investment than this, or any sort of print advertising. Even a bridal show is far more expensive and certainly not exclusive. So this really should be a "no-brainer" for any wedding photographer. top

    Which makes me think they charge you a set amount each month?

    *I emailed them and am awaiting their response as to the status of my application.
    ** I'm very curious to hear if ANYONE else has applied or if this is working.
  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited July 20, 2011
    Travis,

    I will be looking forward to what you find out.

    Sam
  • photo10photo10 Registered Users Posts: 5 Beginner grinner
    edited July 26, 2011
    i used PMM-- RUUUN!
    Travis.... I signed up with Priceless Moments Marketing and it was a huge mistake. You do pay a monthly fee... and they require you to purchase all this marketing materials to put in the stores... and they did not deliver on the "guaranteed" leads, and they did not refund the $10 per lead they did not deliver... the store sales force is not cooperative & you spend an exorbatant amount of time chasing down the few referrals the stores send you in order to give them a free photo session, while making it clear they wish you would just leave them alone.... too much time spent working for free with no return for your investment.... I think its a good marketing concept, the folks running the program just don't know what they are doing.... one can do bad all by themselves!! Find another marketing source, QUICK




    travisj wrote: »
    I'm curious how that all turned out with Priceless Moments Marketing. When they first came out - for sure - i thought - they were going to "revolutionize" the industry... Turns out in the past year I've never heard from them after applying...


    Anyone?
    Their business setup is flushed out a little more in their Q&A sections.
    You certainly aren’t going to send me business for free…so how much is this going to cost me?
    Unlike any other kind of marketing, pricing for this program is structured so that you only pay for what you get. A good comparison would be if your print ad only charged you for the brides that called you and that you actually met with, and that bought something from you. That would be a great deal wouldn't it? Well of course, that will never happen. But that is what we are doing here. Each jeweler will have differing volume, so there is not a set price per store. But a store that sells about 120 rings per year (which means 120 engagement shoots, and should mean at least 30 weddings for you) will cost you about $1200 per year, which we are happy to split into 12 payments for you.

    We structure the payment plan such that you start out with a guarantee. If we do not meet that guarantee, you are credited or refunded a pro-rated difference, and your monthly membership fee will be adjusted according to the average. Of course, if your average is higher, then your membership fee would increase, but only once per year.

    By comparison, David's Bridal offers an exclusive in-store marketing program that has photographers in about 65% of their stores, and they charge over $400 per month for their in-store program, with no guarantee at all. They do not provide any direct contact information to their clients either, and do not directly promote or talk about you with the customers either. It is just for exclusive placement in their store. So we are a far better investment than this, or any sort of print advertising. Even a bridal show is far more expensive and certainly not exclusive. So this really should be a "no-brainer" for any wedding photographer. top
    Which makes me think they charge you a set amount each month?

    *I emailed them and am awaiting their response as to the status of my application.
    ** I'm very curious to hear if ANYONE else has applied or if this is working.
  • YanmanYanman Registered Users Posts: 1 Beginner grinner
    edited August 27, 2011
    Scott at Priceless Moments Marketing is a photographer himself, He told me in an e-mail that he tried to make this work at a local Jewelry Store here in Orlando (He is Florida based) and he couldn't "Devote the proper time " to making it work. Since we are a bigger Photographer we should have "no Problem" booking leads from these stores - and for just $1000 he would sell us the "Right to talk to the store". This was July 2010.

    What? He will sell us the right just to talk to them - no thanks!

    Oh and the Store that he "Tested" the program on? They don't offer the service anymore - my guess the clients didn't want a photographer calling to ask about an engagement session, maybe before it happened!
  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited August 28, 2011
    After this thread has been around for a while, I think it's official: Anyone who knows anything about wedding photography marketing and "target markets", would know that this is a no-deal. This is simply NOT a way to get business.

    In photography, especially weddings, REFERRALS ARE KING. Whether they come from past clients, or from other vendors (wedding coordinators, venues, etc.) ...or even from fellow photographers, I can definitely say that the absolute best way you can spend money or time is in simply creating a referral network. NOT in pursuing cold-call clients when they're in a stage where they're just NOT ready to think about photography. (Contrary to the false logic in the video. I mean seriously; you just don't book a complete stranger photographer around the time you're buying an engagement ring.

    =Matt=
    My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug PortfolioMy Astro-Landscape Photo BlogDgrin Weddings Forum
  • PricelessMomentsLLCPricelessMomentsLLC Registered Users Posts: 2 Beginner grinner
    edited September 8, 2011
    Hello folks,

    I noticed these posts and thought I would mention that the program was sold to another photographer (though not Yanman) and is still being offered. It is simply true that running this company allows me no time to service brides and grooms anymore. I really miss it.

    The program is still being offered, but the program that the current photographer is running differs from the way we ran it. Like any relationship, it must be maintained and nurtured. You cannot expect a jewlery store to simply send you their customers and not have an ongoing relationship and rapport with you. If you had a wedding planner who sent you brides, would you expect to keep getting referrals from them if you had not talked to them in six months? Like any opportunity, it's what you make of it.

    There are a few evolutionary differences with the Priceless Moments program than the original prgoram we ran and sold. The biggest difference that we have with our major chain jewlers, is that their contract requires that they refer every engagement ring customer, and must disclose their ring sales to us so we can verfiy compliance.

    This is not a lead program, it is relationship building. That is the key to this program.

    On the matter of International Diamond Center, the owner of the jewlery store chain is a partner in Priceless Moments Marketing. So it would be hard to conceive that they would invest in the nationwide program if they did not have confidence in the concept.

    Naturally, just like with a print or online ad, it is what you make of it. As a photographer I had advertising I did that other said they got nothing out of, and yet I was able to see bookings from it. Same goes the other way. Others get booking s in ways I could not get to work.

    The bottom line here is that the major jewlers that are listed on our site are all very large companies. Many of the brands are owned by huge and highly successful Fortune 500 companies, like Berkshire Hathaway and Kroger Corp. One could probably assume that quite a bit of dilligence was done on their part before signing a contract with us.

    What contract you say? Well, it is a contract that states they are required to send all of their ring clients to our member photographers, that we certify by scrutinizing each application. Our photographers do not work for us. Yes, there is a fee for the service, but it is far less a marketing expense than any other kind of print or online advertising you might do.

    This is not a cold call or a lead. It is a referral. In fact, if you do not end up calling a customer, they will call the store and complain that they havent heard from their photographer yet.

    The moreweddings4u.com site was our initial launch site, as we needed to begin recruiting while securing contracts with jewelers. The moreweddings4u.com site has been phased out, and we now have it forwarded to pricelessmomentsmktg.com, which is our full site, and also has a comprehensive back-end that manages all the referrals from all of the stores.

    Our vision is to create a path to put the best photographers in front of newly engaged couples before they get a chance to meet the soccer moms and newbs out there.

    In our program, by the time they go shopping for a photographer, they will already have met you, know you, have pictures you shot of them, you will have made a personal and emotional connection with them, and will likely have bought something from you. Moreover, if you are smart, you will give them a credit for whatever they have purchased, toward a full-day wedding booking or package.

    So when they do go shopping (and if you have blown them away...why would they?) no other photographer is going to have that. With that kind of head-start, if you can't book the same number you book from an ad, then there is something wrong. Our program averages around 3% marketing cost if you oly book a third of the people you meet (which is what I did when I ran the program myself, and I am not the best closer.)

    In addition to the referral system, we also offer other products to our members that are being phased in right now, that pools the collective strength of all of our members to offer things that the non-members cannot. We have a sweepstakes pool that lets you offer a prize entry for a twice-a-year Hawaiian Dream Honeymoon giveaway at the Four Seasons Wailea in Maui. It's a $12,000 package we give away twice a year. We also are ramping up a Wedding Photography Gift Registry for our members that let's you take those brides with $500 budgets and still end up with another $1000-1500 by selling gift cards to the guests. The service will be entirely automated and is included with all of our members with store contracts. It will be offered ala carte to all of our approved members.

    We collect a monthly fee that covers all of the support materials and all of our programs and products, as well as an Emotion Media subscription and a subscription to The Wedding Report. We are also finishng up an agreement to inlclude another great product that pops up a chat window anytime someone visits your website, and you can chat with them right on your smartphone.

    Our overall mission is to empower the dedicated professional, and give them a clear edgle over the saturation and flood of pro-ams out there, while also protecting the brides that are being left in tears with terrible pictures and service. When that happens it hurts all of us. We need to take back our profession, and getting the top people in front of these couples before anyone else, will let us begin to shape that consumer perception and value of wedding photography that will benefit us all, and the consumer.

    As for a scam, the application fee is 22 bucks. If we got a 1000 apps, that is 22,000 bucks. Minus 10,000 for expenses and that comes to about 12 grand. Not much of a scam for someone who would basically be done in the photography business for good...not to mention the legal/criminal implications. Not really worth it, if you think about it.

    Moreover, there is a phone number on the website, our company is listed in Florida, and major jewlers seem to think we are legit...so you might want to take another look.

    Could you go do this with your local store? Sure you could. But the details of what makes this work would be guessing on your part. We already made all those mistakes. Also, the larger chains carry high credibility and do higher volume than the smaller local stores. We contentrate on the major chains.

    However, as soon as we have all these tools in place for our members, we wil be offering a kit with contracts and the entire process for anyone who can strike up a rapport with their local jewler as well.

    We want to create new standard for how couple find their wedding photographer, that is centered around the quality, service and relationship with the couple...and that is the way we should be booking weddings. Don't you agree?

    And yes, I am the President of the company, and you can call me anytime!
  • FoquesFoques Registered Users Posts: 1,951 Major grins
    edited September 8, 2011
    ^^
    I liked how you addressed the concerns of people who actually stepped forward with a reasonable concerns..
    nice sales pitch, though.
    Arseny - the too honest guy.
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  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited September 8, 2011
    I don't think your gona like this:

    First your response is very well done. (OK you'll like that part) You sign off with "And yes, I am the President of the company, and you can call me anytime!" Just who is I? A name would be nice.

    Now to the meat of your program. It reads like many get rich quick, start your own business, be your own boss offerings. Lots of vague fuzzy comments on what a great opportunity this is and you how need jump on it right away or lose out.

    Very short on specifics and costs. I looked over your website and still have no idea (except for the $22.00 application fee, and I had to hunt for that) what my costs would be. I don't know if there is a long term commitment / contract on my part etc. I don't see anything about what your approval criteria is. I can't even find out what information you are requesting in your application without at least starting to fill it out.

    Without a clear idea as to if I would or could be be approved and with no clear idea of what I would expect or the terms / costs involved, why would anyone apply? Yes $22.00 is cheap, but other than fuzzy sales hyperbola what do I get?

    As an "approved" PM photographer would I have exclusive access to leads or would the leads be offered to a number of photographers?

    In closing I have no idea how you got any jewelery store to agree to providing verifiable inside information with regard to sales and customer data.

    Sam
  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited September 9, 2011
    Sam wrote: »
    I don't think your gona like this:

    First your response is very well done. (OK you'll like that part) You sign off with "And yes, I am the President of the company, and you can call me anytime!" Just who is I? A name would be nice.

    Now to the meat of your program. It reads like many get rich quick, start your own business, be your own boss offerings. Lots of vague fuzzy comments on what a great opportunity this is and you how need jump on it right away or lose out.

    Very short on specifics and costs. I looked over your website and still have no idea (except for the $22.00 application fee, and I had to hunt for that) what my costs would be. I don't know if there is a long term commitment / contract on my part etc. I don't see anything about what your approval criteria is. I can't even find out what information you are requesting in your application without at least starting to fill it out.

    Without a clear idea as to if I would or could be be approved and with no clear idea of what I would expect or the terms / costs involved, why would anyone apply? Yes $22.00 is cheap, but other than fuzzy sales hyperbola what do I get?

    As an "approved" PM photographer would I have exclusive access to leads or would the leads be offered to a number of photographers?

    In closing I have no idea how you got any jewelery store to agree to providing verifiable inside information with regard to sales and customer data.

    Sam
    My thoughts indeed. I still get that distinct "too good to be true" vibe from the entire thing, with a touch of "sales pitch"... I'm sorry, but that's just my gut reaction.

    Mostly because, even if this is a perfectly legitimate company with a sound business concept, I don't see much mention at all of the one main factor: RESULTS! I can't see ANYTHING concrete about ROI or success stories. To me, that's a red flag.

    =Matt=
    My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug PortfolioMy Astro-Landscape Photo BlogDgrin Weddings Forum
  • GlortGlort Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
    edited September 12, 2011
    Well in a bored moment I had a look at this and to cut a long one short, I call scam.

    The whole premise of the concept seem to be that you get to talk to couples before they talk to anyone else.

    As someone with over 20 yrs experience in the wedding game, I say big bloody deal!
    I can't think of a singe couple that didn't know of me previously that booked me without seeing anyone else of having at least had a bunch of pricelists and other material to refer to.
    I can think o heaps of people that I was the first shooter they saw and I told them to go see someone else because without comparison there is no way for them to know if I am the right shooter for them or not.

    While that may sound lofty and maybe arrogant, I remember a time when I would crunch people to sign on the dotted line or go out of my way to book them and it never turned out to be a great transaction.
    If they aren't sold on you by their own doing, selling them on their behalf leads to less than enthuastic clients, poor sales, picky and fussy customers that are hard to please and more time spent on the client than is really worth while.

    On top of all that, I dont think the moment the couple get engaged is the right time to be hitting them with photo services either. If they just got engaged, they don't have a date, a church or reception organised yet let alone get their head around what they actually want so to me this is the wrong time in the cycle to be hitting them up anyway.

    I also notice on the site where they talk about who they select, their is in fact no criteria at all. Nothing to say you should have a min of x experience, have had any sort of demonstrable learning structure, equipment specification, referals or anything else that would preclude anyone at all applying and being accepted. This makes me very suspicous that's it's really more a case of pay your money and your in rather than having any of the high standards they company talks about.

    When looking for how this works and definable parameters of what this service provides, I see a lot more detail about the $500 worth of vouchers i'll get for signing up than the ongoing and tangible referals i'll recieve. Look for that and it all becomes fluffy and non specific although very reassuring in the lanuage without saying anything specific or measurable.

    I see a lot of hype that paints a picture of overwhealming success straight off but Noting to back that up. They say Gauranteed leads but I failed to find what that gaurantee actually was. Do they gaurantee x leads a week/ month, if they fail to make good on those leads is there some sort of refund or compensation or..... ????
    Lots of bread, no filling.


    As mentioned earlier, where are the shooters that have SUCCESSFULLY used this program? Can they refer me to someone I can find in the phone book or their web page to establish they are a real and legit business ( unlike the severe doubts I have about the highly animated and gushing woman in the front page video clip) and verify that the program is working well for them. If their isn't anyone, why not? I'm more than happy to share my my success stories with other people in the game that are not direct competitors and I imagine any happy client shooter of this or any other company would be the same.

    And finally, as unscientific and purely opinion as this is, I have YET to see any product or service vendor that comes on a forum and spouts slick rhetoric about their wonderful business actually turn out to be anything like they made it out to be. When something is questioned on a forum and out of the blue comes someone defending it that posts on that topic only and then dissappears as fast as they sprung up, they also have a 101% chance of being nothing but shills from the company they are defending.

    To me, the target market of this company is the wannabe shooters with no to little experience in business or photography that have yet to learn the skills that will enable them to look beyond the hype of telling them what they want to hear and believe.
    I am sure that the liftime value of these wannabes to the company has been well defined and the goal of the company is a lot more on signups than making the picture they paint become a reality for the people that sign up.


    So far the only real and verifyable evience of this company is that it's bogus and does not deliver on their promises and in the absence of anything comtarary, that goes exactly with the conclusions I I draw from the hype I see.
  • photo10photo10 Registered Users Posts: 5 Beginner grinner
    edited September 18, 2011
    experience
    "If they aren't sold on you by their own doing, selling them on their behalf leads to less than enthuastic clients, poor sales, picky and fussy customers that are hard to please and more time spent on the client than is really worth while." -Glort

    --this is exactly the experience I had with many of the 'referrals' I received as a member of this program. I was 'guaranteed' 90 referrals and only received 8 by the time I was expelled from the program for not 'nurturing' the sales force... I attended staff meetings at the stores I was assigned to and spent money on treats for them (as suggested by Priceless Moments).

    In addition to the $22 app fee... there is a monthly fee... you are required to purchase marketing materials ( I had to pay $200 for a stack of 300 tear cards, of which only 20 cards were given out by the two stores I covered)... and you are required to pay a monthly subscription fee to pictage.
  • PricelessMomentsLLCPricelessMomentsLLC Registered Users Posts: 2 Beginner grinner
    edited September 30, 2011
    To Sam:

    My name is Scott Morris. However that is pretty easy to figure out. Secondly, I am just one part of the company, so I dont always attach my name to things. Finally, our phone number is right on every page of our website. Anyone will connect you to me if you ask. In addition to that, I think that the very things you metion and ask, are right there one the site under the various informational tabs and the FAQ's. But answering a few of your questions here, yes, you would be the only photographer for a given store. Giving a specific price is not possible as each store is priced according the to volume of the store. As for referrals, you only get billed for the referrals you receive, after you receive them. As for a lot more specific detail, of course we are not going to do that. Then it would be a seminar or workshop, and we would charge people $1500 to attend, because that is what the rest of the photography business is doing. Tell me who is willing to actually send you the customers? Lots of these "Double your wedding business with our proven marketing program. Let us tell you how." As for the application, we gather a lot of information. We check all the references, we check out your business, we check your insurance, and other things. We take all of that and look at the whole picture. Not just as photographers, but as a business. We have to have top notch reputable professionals, and this screening is required by the jewelers. One person who posted on this page does not mention that she was removed from the program by the jewler because of multiple customer complaints about her service and demeanor. If she persists, I will simply post the emails and text messages that the customers submitted to us to make the picture clear. Still, we offered her a refund according to the contract she signed, and she seems to not understand what a refund is. Additionally, she had not paid her bill in full since the second month of the program. Yet, I personally made two trips to Austin, TX to help her fifure out what the problem was and help. We spent far more on her than she evet paid us by a 10-1 ratio. Still, we offered a refund from what she had paid us. Somehow though, she seems to think that she is etitled to be paid for something she never paid for to begin with. Still, we took the high road and offered her the refund despite not being obligated (breach of contract on multiple points) Ultimately, it boiled down to her service. We can only put you in front of the customer. It is your job to convert them. We can't book the wedding for you after all...

    We screen everyone as best we can, but we are going to miss one once in a while. In hindsight, she is one that should not have been approved.

    The core point here is that we deliver people to you face-to-face before they meet anyone else. We don't bill you for a referral until you receive it. I am not sure where any other type of marketing for a wedding photographer offers to do that.

    We have also added two other products that all of our referral program photographers receive, and all of our certified professionals are elligible to buy-in. One is a sweepstakes pool. www.dreamhoneymoonsweepstakes.com that begins on October 1st. For $199 per year (or included if you contract for one of the jewelry stores) you can offer your customer an entry to win a complete honeymoon at the Four Seasons Maui. Its a complete 5-star VIP package. We do it twice a year. The other product we offer is a turn-key Wedding Photography Gift Registry. We handle the entire proces of selling gift cards to wedding guests of your clients. We package them nicely so they have something to put on the gift table and we send them out. It is $89 per year plus a small per-card fee, but the photographer simply gets a check, and an additional 500-1500 or more in sales per wedding.

    But these products are only offered to our Certified Priceless Moments Professionals. We want to make sure we are positioning the real professionals out there, so that we can regain control of this spiraling market. We already reach more consumers with our name that any other sort of certification label. The core of our mission is to give the deserving professional an unfair advantage over the pro-ams out there, that are flooding the market with poor product and service, and unsustainable prices. We extend this to special and exclusive deals we make with other vendors and products as well, that are only offered to our approved members.

    As for how we got the jewelers to provide all the contact info for their cutomers, right at the time of purchase. Well, that is why you are buying into a program like this. No, we don't pay the jeweler a dime for this program. Yes, they send us all of their very valuable and highly prized customers. Yes, we put them in front of your camera, and we do it for a lower investment than any other form of commercial marketing available to photographers.

    Like I said, you can always give me a call. You might notice there is no email address on our website. We like you to call. We are in a people-business after all...

    Sam wrote: »
    I don't think your gona like this:

    First your response is very well done. (OK you'll like that part) You sign off with "And yes, I am the President of the company, and you can call me anytime!" Just who is I? A name would be nice.

    Now to the meat of your program. It reads like many get rich quick, start your own business, be your own boss offerings. Lots of vague fuzzy comments on what a great opportunity this is and you how need jump on it right away or lose out.

    Very short on specifics and costs. I looked over your website and still have no idea (except for the $22.00 application fee, and I had to hunt for that) what my costs would be. I don't know if there is a long term commitment / contract on my part etc. I don't see anything about what your approval criteria is. I can't even find out what information you are requesting in your application without at least starting to fill it out.

    Without a clear idea as to if I would or could be be approved and with no clear idea of what I would expect or the terms / costs involved, why would anyone apply? Yes $22.00 is cheap, but other than fuzzy sales hyperbola what do I get?

    As an "approved" PM photographer would I have exclusive access to leads or would the leads be offered to a number of photographers?

    In closing I have no idea how you got any jewelery store to agree to providing verifiable inside information with regard to sales and customer data.

    Sam
  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited October 1, 2011
    Scott,

    Thank you for taking the time to respond with so much detail. You have championed your position very well.

    I need to get out the door for a shoot, but will get back to this later.

    I do appreciate when some one is willing to put their name on the line and represent their position well. Even I agree or not. :D

    Sam
  • ShimaShima Registered Users Posts: 2,547 Major grins
    edited October 1, 2011
    Sam wrote: »
    Scott,

    Thank you for taking the time to respond with so much detail. You have championed your position very well.

    I need to get out the door for a shoot, but will get back to this later.

    I do appreciate when some one is willing to put their name on the line and represent their position well. Even I agree or not. :D

    Sam

    If you call him I'd be very interested in your thoughts after that. The whole thing still seems very sales pitchy to me.
  • GlortGlort Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
    edited October 1, 2011
    Shima wrote: »
    If you call him I'd be very interested in your thoughts after that. The whole thing still seems very sales pitchy to me.

    Couldn't agree more.

    When company affiliated people come onto forums writing long, defensive and self serving pieces about how great they are when reports from users of the product paint an entirely different picture, I get pretty suspect.

    In the many cases I have seen of this before, the story has ALWAYS come out ( even years later) that the company was NOT within cooee of how wonderful they made themselves out to be. It seems to in fact be an inverse equation.... the more they write and the more saintly they hold themelves out to be the more chance you will eventually find the complete and utter opposite.

    Perhaps this company would be the one exception but given what I have found myself so far, I think the chances of that and my winning the lottery next week are about the same.

    Even if I am completely wrong, I still find the whole premise of being the first in front of the client gives some sort of huge advantage over one's competitors to be completely flawed. In my 20+ years of experience ( which is a lot more than this company has!) I could count the amount of clients that have seen me and me alone on one hand.... if that.

    For any client that has a priority of quality of their photos over whom has the cheapest price on CL, the decisuin is simply too important to go with the first/ only person they have seen without looking at what others provide. When you consider that they will find these other vendors through sources other than this program, then the question to me is what's the real advantage of being involved in the first place?

    I'd like to know how many shooters this company has involved, What the AVERAGE ( NOT highest ) amount of leads generated per month is, How many ( numbers or percentage ) of those leads BOOK their wedding with the shooter and what the AVERAGE spend is and how that compares with teh national average spend on wedding photos and what these leads and ultimately clients ( hopefully) cost the shooter monitarily ALL UP in marketing materials, membership fees and commissions.

    The cost of lead generation is as important as anything else because if your website costs $xx per client, a mag ad costs $xx, a bridal fair costs something else and the cost of leads from this program is not competitive, then the number of leads becomes irrelevant.

    I Think these few basic and straightforward figures which the company WOULD have really hold the key to the true value of this program. If the numbers are good the company will be only too glad to wave them like a flag.

    If they are no so good, then you'll see the excuses of confidential information and other fabricated BS not to give the figures that would show involvement with this company is not worthwhile.
  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited October 3, 2011
    Update:

    I called and spoke to Scott Morris today. The following is my opinion only.

    He is primarily a sales marketing guy. The program is more targeted towards photographers who are more business driven than say artistically driven. Not to say we shouldn't blend them. :D

    He did share some insight into how the program works and I said I wouldn't elaborate on this.

    Pro:

    He is passionate about what he is trying to build. There are a lot of ideas, products and marketing that on paper should provide an opportunity to increase revenue and book weddings. He was upfront about some things that didn't work so well and has changed them. For one thing they are being more particular when choosing photographers. He is trying to add new products and ideas to the program that will help photographers with sales and bookings. I actually liked two of them. They will custom design a program based on the stores location, sales, etc. There are some unique aspect to the program.

    Con:

    The company and business model are new and not fully fleshed out. There isn't any real statistical data or history to substantiate what the results for any individual photographer would likely be. Right now it's based on what could or should be, not proven results.

    The only way you can get all the details is to apply be accepted and when they have a store for you they will send a contract with all the details.

    Summary:

    If your a $500.00 craiglist shooter this isn't a marketing plan that will work for you, or the store.

    If your booking all the wedding you want and /or are in the upper wedding photography bracket say $4000.00 up this may not be for you ether.

    If you are in the mid price range yet an experienced good competent wedding photographer now spending say $1000 per year or more for wedding advertising and not getting the results you want this could be a reasonable alternative.

    Them's me thoughts.

    Sam
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