I posted earlier about being approached for a school yearbook. Well it turns out they were really talking about a church directory. What this would include is the following:

-Doing a mailing to all 1,200 parishoners including the price of the directory and a color flyer with package deals on photos from the shoot.

-Follow up phone calls to the parishoners to see if they have any questions.

-Laying out the directory, proofing it, and finally having it printed and distributed.

-Actually doing the photos - possible 3-500 pictures.

-The church may want me to be licensed and bonded. (has anyone done this and know the price of doing this?)

-having betwen 2-3 photographers, multiple assistants.

Has anyone here ever done this before? I've looked online and found some places that specifically do this. Some places give everyone a free 8x10, take the pictures in their studios, and have the financial backing to not make much on the shoot itself but rely on the package sales and future individual shoots to make money.

I think this is a bit over my head. I do work for a printing company so I could get cheaper rates on the actual directory and mailing. I just don't know if this is worth the effort.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Nick

Sounds like a huge job. Alot more than school photo's or even a team shoot. This is an awful lot of work, especially if you have to go through bonding and all that red tape crap. It's also alot more than they approaced you with originally. Could it go well and make you alot of money in the future? Possibly, but it could also be more work than its worth. This is the kinda thing were I would deffinatley want some compensation for my time of doing all the legwork, flyers, calls, etc, etc, etc. And not just hope for decent package sales to try and cover my costs.

That's kinda what I was thinking. I really don't feel like starting such a huge undertaking. It sounded tempting at first but then reality set in. I'll hae to decline.

If anyone in the Chicagoland area has done something like this before and had success and would want another go at it PM me and I can give you contact info for the Church. I'd love to help someone out if I could.

Nick

I am not clear on exactly what a church directory is. Is this a list of all the parishoners, with 300 - 500 photos of the church and church activities? If so then it would look like it would take a year to get all the photos. Long term commitment.

Also the thing ( ok 2 or 3) that realy jumped right out was is the church expecting you to provide this at no charge or a substaintaly reduced charge, or is this strictly business?

The project as presented requires many different skill / experience / knowledge sets. Photography, sales, and marketing, publishing (can be very complex), hiring managing employees, labor laws, etc.

This could be great project to be a part of and gain a lot of experience, but to try and lead this without any experience would, I think, lead to dissapointment for both you and the church.

Typically one does not learn to swim by jumping off a boat in the middle of the English Channel.

Sam

Originally Posted by Sam I am not clear on exactly what a church directory is. Is this a list of all the parishoners, with 300 - 500 photos of the church and church activities? If so then it would look like it would take a year to get all the photos. Long term commitment. Also the thing ( ok 2 or 3) that realy jumped right out was is the church expecting you to provide this at no charge or a substaintaly reduced charge, or is this strictly business? The project as presented requires many different skill / experience / knowledge sets. Photography, sales, and marketing, publishing (can be very complex), hiring managing employees, labor laws, etc. This could be great project to be a part of and gain a lot of experience, but to try and lead this without any experience would, I think, lead to dissapointment for both you and the church. Typically one does not learn to swim by jumping off a boat in the middle of the English Channel. Sam

At least I wasn't the only one thinking that. Sucks though I was looking forward to a trip to chicago to help ya out.

Sam I agree with you completely. This started as a simple project but grew exponentially very quickly. They say they have no budjet but are requesting the world on a silver plater. Each time I talk to them they added something else. They are expecting something like this. I agree this would be a great learning experience but I don't want to head this up and learn that I cannot handle it. It has become too much work and I don't have the time, money, or experience. Thanks for all your input though, and Gary thanks for the offer, I'll keep it in mind if anything comes up in the future. I was looking forward to meeting you also. Maybe I'll go on your Mackinaw City/Island trip if you'll still have me, I may be coming into some extra vacation time soon.

Nick

So, if it's a church, where have they gone in the past for such a service?

Like you, I would have also declined. This is a special area of photography that usually takes a staff to handle follow ups, fulfillments, and all the other hassles. Not to mention, a portable studio. A special database set up for the job. And reshoots if the family doesn't like the results? Yikes. I can only imagine the stress and time. Only if you're 100% set up for this would it be worthwhile, IMO.

Originally Posted by gluwater Sam I agree with you completely. This started as a simple project but grew exponentially very quickly. They say they have no budjet but are requesting the world on a silver plater. Each time I talk to them they added something else. They are expecting something like this. I agree this would be a great learning experience but I don't want to head this up and learn that I cannot handle it. It has become too much work and I don't have the time, money, or experience. Thanks for all your input though, and Gary thanks for the offer, I'll keep it in mind if anything comes up in the future. I was looking forward to meeting you also. Maybe I'll go on your Mackinaw City/Island trip if you'll still have me, I may be coming into some extra vacation time soon. Nick

gluwater,

I tried to check out the link you provided, and I spent a whole lot more time there than I normally would.

I am not real clear on what they actually do, or don't do, or how or if they charge for whatever.

Do they take the photos, or do the church's provide their own?

Somehow I read that the church gets free directories, and families get free photos, but I also read that the church can use this as a fundraiser, and get 5% of the photo, frame sales. Yet I could not locate a simple statement of what they do specifically or any pricing! Very frustrating.

I hate companies who advertise like this. I need real simple stuff. Like: We do A, B, and C, and we charge $ for this.

Sam

Originally Posted by Sam gluwater, I tried to check out the link you provided, and I spent a whole lot more time there than I normally would. I am not real clear on what they actually do, or don't do, or how or if they charge for whatever. Do they take the photos, or do the church's provide their own? Somehow I read that the church gets free directories, and families get free photos, but I also read that the church can use this as a fundraiser, and get 5% of the photo, frame sales. Yet I could not locate a simple statement of what they do specifically or any pricing! Very frustrating. I hate companies who advertise like this. I need real simple stuff. Like: We do A, B, and C, and we charge $ for this. Sam

So you see my frustration on looking up information on this too. All the web sites I have found on the subject are like the one in that link. It seems like a really shady business. Most of the places seem to do the shoots for free and also give everyone a free 8x10. The only thing I can think of is that they make their money in the sales of the books themselves, or are banking on the sale of future sittings with the individual families. There is nothing on any of the sites I have found that list what you get and what they provide. And there is no pricing either, you have to call them directly or send them all your info. That is kind of why I posted this here originally, I jsut couldn't find any good info anywhere else.

David_S85 - They have not done this for over 10 years. I saw what they recieved then and it looked like a piece of S**t. I have experience in layout and design, and I work for a printing company that could have done a much better job, that is why I originally said I would look into this for them.

Nick

Hi, The companies not only supply a free 8x10 to each family, but usually supply the directories as well, and a complete picture package to at least the senior pastor. This is probably what the church is expecting because the companies that do this reguarly supply all this. How do the companies make any money? The answer is by high pressure sales. Oh, some promise not to use high pressure and even deliver on that promise, but they don't survive. It's a cutthroat business. And my advice to you is to direct them to one of those companies. If you've not done it, it's not for you.

In case you're wondering how I know: About seven years back, our growing church of 650 had a company come in to do a new directory. Six months later there was no directory and only a handfull of the families who had ordered pictures had received their pictures. We were in the larger group who had not. It turned out the company had gone bankrupt and we never got our directories. Those who had paid for their pictures by check or cash were out of luck. We had used a credit card and so we got our money back.

I approached the senior minister with the crazy idea of us doing our own directory, me doing the pictures (with no pictures for sale), someone else doing the layout and sending it out to a printing company. We decided that we would use three ring binders and do it loose-leaf so that we could update it frequently. This turned out to be a good idea since by the time we actualy did the shoot the church had grown to 800. Two updates later we were at 1400 and are due another update soon. My wife and I do this as a service project. I had been doing photography for many years, just never for money. Because of this directory, people started asking me to do weddings, senior portraits, and the like. It turned into a nice little side business.

I'm sorry to hear you had such a bad experience jdking. But it looks like it turned out for the best in the end. You got a little side business and the church got it's directory without the hassle of going through another high pressure sales pitch. Good for you. Thanks for the info, it confirms what I was thinking.

Nick

...see here:

http://www.ucg-ftwayne.org/Pages/HowTo.html