Wrestling

Macushla · March 7, 2010

I was finally able to get a few shots of my boys. It was my little guy's first wrestling match. Sometimes it looks like he was posing for the camera but I was sitting right behind his coach - which worked out great.

Shutter 1/200 ISO 1600 F2.8 Bounce flash off the ceiling.

1. Mine is in Navy.

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4. Just for fun while I still have my topaz free trial.

4. My other son wrestling his best friend. Mine has white stripe on uniform. (top)

5. I know their heads are not showing but I thought this one was funny. They boys are best friends and when they weighed in today they were exactly the same weight - to the ounce.

C&C always welcome. Here are the rest.

GadgetRick · March 8, 2010

Nice, my son (7) just got done with his first year of wrestling. It's a blast watching these kids go at it.

Nice shots there as well.

Macushla · March 8, 2010

GadgetRick wrote:

Nice, my son (7) just got done with his first year of wrestling. It's a blast watching these kids go at it.

The little guys definitely are fun. We must live near one another. I'm in NY on the NJ border near NYC. So far we have not done any of the NJ tournaments.

GadgetRick · March 8, 2010

Macushla wrote:

The little guys definitely are fun. We must live near one another. I'm in NY on the NJ border near NYC. So far we have not done any of the NJ tournaments.

Oh wow. I'm 10 miles from NYC in Clifton. Do you shoot a lot of sports? I'm working on building a business doing sports photography for the kids.

We should GTG. Always looking to meet more photo geeks.

Macushla · March 8, 2010

GadgetRick wrote:

Oh wow. I'm 10 miles from NYC in Clifton. Do you shoot a lot of sports? I'm working on building a business doing sports photography for the kids.

We should GTG. Always looking to meet more photo geeks.

You're about 45 minutes from me. I live next to Old Tappan / Northvale. I'm just doing this for fun / family events. I've got a lot to learn. One of the wrestling moms said someone posts pictures after the wrestling tournaments and sells them in Bergen County. I don't have any other info. As far as I know there is no one doing commercial sports photography where I am.

johng · March 9, 2010

nice. I might suggest dropping ISO to 800 - it will help remove some of the motion blur and will also help with fall-off - i.e. less light on the background helping remove that as a distraction since ambient light will be contributing less to the exposure. It will also help with noise levels in the background. Give it a shot and see which you like better.

MNGirl · March 9, 2010

Macushla - love the photos! You were in a nice spot for shooting you get some really great 'face' shots.

It's always fun when you're shooting you're own kids I'm sure. I love shooting my nephews.

Thanks for sharing,

GadgetRick · March 9, 2010

Macushla wrote:

You're about 45 minutes from me. I live next to Old Tappan / Northvale. I'm just doing this for fun / family events. I've got a lot to learn. One of the wrestling moms said someone posts pictures after the wrestling tournaments and sells them in Bergen County. I don't have any other info. As far as I know there is no one doing commercial sports photography where I am.

Yeah, that's about what I'm learning--nobody doing this sort of thing. Hoping to make a few bucks (not as my day job of course) doing it.

Do you get out and shoot outdoors at all? There's some nice places up by you. Not much by me. I always have to go a distance to get anywhere nice in the trees.

Macushla · March 9, 2010

johng wrote:

nice. I might suggest dropping ISO to 800 - it will help remove some of the motion blur and will also help with fall-off - i.e. less light on the background helping remove that as a distraction since ambient light will be contributing less to the exposure. It will also help with noise levels in the background. Give it a shot and see which you like better.

I'll try it at the next tournament. I have to get better at photoshop also - I'm sure I could do something to minimize the background.

Macushla · March 9, 2010

MNGirl wrote:

Macushla - love the photos! You were in a nice spot for shooting you get some really great 'face' shots.

It's always fun when you're shooting you're own kids I'm sure. I love shooting my nephews.

Thanks for sharing,

Yea, these tournaments are crazy, sometimes 6 matches going on at the same time. You just have to plop down on the edge of the mat. The 50mm lens is perfect.

Macushla · March 9, 2010

GadgetRick wrote:

Yeah, that's about what I'm learning--nobody doing this sort of thing. Hoping to make a few bucks (not as my day job of course) doing it.

Do you get out and shoot outdoors at all? There's some nice places up by you. Not much by me. I always have to go a distance to get anywhere nice in the trees.

I just got the camera about a month ago so I have not really been outdoors with it yet. Hopefully the snow will all melt soon and I'll head out. I live about 1/2 mile from the Hudson River and near the TZ bridge. I love bridge photos.

GadgetRick · March 10, 2010

Macushla wrote:

Yea, these tournaments are crazy, sometimes 6 matches going on at the same time. You just have to plop down on the edge of the mat. The 50mm lens is perfect.

Try shooting jiu jitsu tournaments...could be 20-30 matches at once!

I compete and shoot these. There's one coming up in Caldwell, NJ next week (March 20). I can't compete due to a hurt shoulder but will be there shooting as I know a lot of people who will be there to compete. If you're free, come on down. I think it's only like $10 to get in or something like that.

richmoffitt · March 10, 2010

Nice shots. I agree with tuning out a little more of the ambient since you seem to have a lot of coverage with the flash. (low ceiling?) I see you have some other shots at 1/500 without flash that have a lot less color detail. For low light sports I tend to shoot with shutter priority at around 1/200 - 1/400 depending on conditions; this way I have control over the amount of motion blur and the proportion of ambient light to flash if I'm using it. Not sure if it's the "best" way, but works for me.

Hope your kid figures out how to secure the ankle too

Macushla · March 10, 2010

richmoffitt wrote:

Nice shots. I agree with tuning out a little more of the ambient since you seem to have a lot of coverage with the flash. (low ceiling?) I see you have some other shots at 1/500 without flash that have a lot less color detail. For low light sports I tend to shoot with shutter priority at around 1/200 - 1/400 depending on conditions; this way I have control over the amount of motion blur and the proportion of ambient light to flash if I'm using it. Not sure if it's the "best" way, but works for me.

Hope your kid figures out how to secure the ankle too

The ceiling was a regular high gym ceiling. I'm totally new at this and still trying to figure it all out. How do you tune out more of the background? When I have my 70-210 lens I zoom in to blur the background but the spaces are so small and there are so many people around this lens just doesn't work for wrestling. I've been using the 50mm lens and sitting on the edge of the mat. Since it is a prime lens I can't zoom and I don't really know how to control the background.

This was my little guy's first wrestling match. He has only been wrestling for 2 weeks. He had no idea what he was doing. He did great though. He won two, pinning a kid and had one agonizing loss. He ended up coming in second. : )

Macushla · March 10, 2010

GadgetRick wrote:

Try shooting jiu jitsu tournaments...could be 20-30 matches at once!

I compete and shoot these. There's one coming up in Caldwell, NJ next week (March 20). I can't compete due to a hurt shoulder but will be there shooting as I know a lot of people who will be there to compete. If you're free, come on down. I think it's only like $10 to get in or something like that.

We will be at a wrestling tournament in upstate NY. Post pictures of the jiu jitsu!

Macushla · March 10, 2010

johng wrote:

nice. I might suggest dropping ISO to 800 - it will help remove some of the motion blur and will also help with fall-off - i.e. less light on the background helping remove that as a distraction since ambient light will be contributing less to the exposure. It will also help with noise levels in the background. Give it a shot and see which you like better.

Hi John- I'm still a bit confused. How does changing the ISO effect the background? This is how I'm doing it. I'm using the 50mm 1.8 lens. I am shooting in manual, I start with 200 shutter because that is the optimal sync for the flash. Then I set the aperture - starting with 1.8 and take some test shots. I keep changing the ISO until the histogram looks OK. If I can't get it to look right with just the ISO adjustments I start increasing the aperture.

Is there a better way?

GadgetRick · March 10, 2010

Macushla wrote:

I just got the camera about a month ago so I have not really been outdoors with it yet. Hopefully the snow will all melt soon and I'll head out. I live about 1/2 mile from the Hudson River and near the TZ bridge. I love bridge photos.

I'm also a bridge freak. I'm actually heading up your way tomorrow to buy a used 28-70mm L for my sports shots.

We should gtg and shoot the bridge. There's also a nice park at the base of the GWB on the NJ side I've been meaning to hit. Like to hit it at sunset and get some sunset pics (although the sun sets over the hills behind us) and night pics. Could also shoot down to Weehawken, there's a great spot for shooting the City from up on the hill not far from there.

MNGirl · March 10, 2010

Macushla wrote:

Yea, these tournaments are crazy, sometimes 6 matches going on at the same time. You just have to plop down on the edge of the mat. The 50mm lens is perfect.

When one of my nephews was that age he did some wrestling. But of course I didn't have a decent lens at that time. :-( I remember how LONG the tournaments were for the short amount of time Reed was actually on the mat. I'm actually glad he eventually switched to basketball.

GadgetRick · March 10, 2010

Macushla wrote:

This was my little guy's first wrestling match. He has only been wrestling for 2 weeks. He had no idea what he was doing. He did great though. He won two, pinning a kid and had one agonizing loss. He ended up coming in second. : )

Congrats to your son! Wrestling takes dedication. I also respect ANYONE who decides to step on the matt. It takes a lot of guts to do that in front of everyone.

GadgetRick · March 10, 2010

Macushla wrote:

We will be at a wrestling tournament in upstate NY. Post pictures of the jiu jitsu!

Good luck in the tournament.

I'll be posting some pics, don't worry.

richmoffitt · March 11, 2010

Macushla wrote:

The ceiling was a regular high gym ceiling. I'm totally new at this and still trying to figure it all out. How do you tune out more of the background? When I have my 70-210 lens I zoom in to blur the background but the spaces are so small and there are so many people around this lens just doesn't work for wrestling. I've been using the 50mm lens and sitting on the edge of the mat. Since it is a prime lens I can't zoom and I don't really know how to control the background.

This was my little guy's first wrestling match. He has only been wrestling for 2 weeks. He had no idea what he was doing. He did great though. He won two, pinning a kid and had one agonizing loss. He ended up coming in second. : )

Guess you're using a relatively strong pop of the flash then. The background will receive less light from your flash than your near subject -- so automatically you have some control over the ambient light. Basically, if you keep the aperture constant and vary the shutter speed, you can control the ratio of flash-to-ambient light. Longer shutter = more ambient. I probably can't explain this any better than David Hobby, so check out his blog on this topic.

I remember doing wrestling photography for my own team in high school... with an AE-1 and a 50mm prime lens. Come to think of it, I think I did a lot with bounce flash just like you're doing.

Macushla · March 24, 2010

So I accidentally learned a few things at the wrestling tournament this weekend. If you are standing you can cut down on the unwanted people in the background. I assumed it is always better to sit down to be level with the wrestlers but in these crowded tournaments where there are 2 matches going on in each wrestling circle it can get pretty crowded. Standing up cuts the background. I also learned to pay attention to where the light is coming in from the doors. I didn't really notice the glare on the mats but it really showed up in the photos.

1. Notice there are no people in the background. I'm standing.

2. This one was a bit soft so I applied used a filter on it in Photoshop. I'm sitting.
ry%253D400.jpg

2. Glare from the door. :cry (sitting again)

F1.8 ISO 640 Shutter 200 (flash) Auto Focus set to matrix. I think that worked out pretty good for the wrestling. May use it again next time.

GadgetRick · March 25, 2010

You're right, standing does cut down on the background, however, I think you lose the intimacy with the wrestlers. I'd rather be down on the mat (I lay in a prone position.) and shoot at a wide aperture (f2.8 on my 28-70mm or larger if I've got my 50mm) to blur the background. I just feel you capture the feel of the moment better that way. Shooting down seems almost like you're detached somehow. But that's just my opinion. YMMV

johng · March 25, 2010

GadgetRick wrote:

You're right, standing does cut down on the background, however, I think you lose the intimacy with the wrestlers. I'd rather be down on the mat (I lay in a prone position.) and shoot at a wide aperture (f2.8 on my 28-70mm or larger if I've got my 50mm) to blur the background. I just feel you capture the feel of the moment better that way. Shooting down seems almost like you're detached somehow. But that's just my opinion. YMMV

I agree completely. Sure there are occasionally people in the background. But the shots standing are SO much less interesting because you're shooting down on your subject, and especially in wrestling you miss so many faces:

Macushla · March 31, 2010

I forgot to bring my flash this weekend but I think they came out OK. The focus is still a bit soft. I just don't know why. F1.8, 1/250 ISO 2000. I was sitting for all of them. : )

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They were quite noisy so I did run them through Noiseware. In the past the colors seemed to be a bit washed out so I set the camera to the Vivid option. It worked out pretty good.

So what do you guys think. I really appreciate the feedback.

GadgetRick · March 31, 2010

I like them. I think the softness you're seeing is because you're at f1.8. It's not horrible.

Macushla · March 31, 2010

hmmm... I can try to increase that next time. Any suggestions for the f stop? I kind of thought you were supposed to shoot with the lens at the lowest f stop. It is a lot to learn.

GadgetRick · April 1, 2010

Macushla wrote:

hmmm... I can try to increase that next time. Any suggestions for the f stop? I kind of thought you were supposed to shoot with the lens at the lowest f stop. It is a lot to learn.

No always. In fact, lenses are at their sharpest a couple to a few stops above their lowest. Of course, when shooting indoors you often need to open up the aperture for light as well as changing your DOF to blur the background.

It's a balancing act between raising your ISO, opening your aperture and lowering your shutter speed to get the proper exposure without getting motion blur. Each gym is very different. I try and get to an event early to try various settings to see what works best.

If you can use flash it increases your odds of getting a good exposure with no motion blur without having to bump ISO terribly high but there are still times when you may have to. Flash is a different beast altogether but I've been working to learn it and it really helps. Sometimes they won't allow flash photography though so you need to know how to get good results sans flash.

Macushla · April 1, 2010

Sounds good. Next match on the 7th. I'll bring the flash and try it.

Enitsugua · April 1, 2010

Macushla wrote:

Sounds good. Next match on the 7th. I'll bring the flash and try it.

Don't. Not unless you are going to put it on a nice bracket off the camera. Get the flash away from the camera body if you are going to use it, otherwise you will get redeye. And flash won't stop the action until you learn to balance flash and ambient light in such a way that not enough ambient light gets through to cause motion blur but enough gets through to keep the background from being black and the photo from screaming "flash photography." The best way to use flash for wrestling is multiple units on remote trigger lighting up the gym (preferably via bounce), but that's really hard (and expensive) to do in a big tournament with many mats. Personally, I think you are better off with natural light if you can do it. Again, if you must go single flash, then go buy a decent bracket and cable.

BTW, your last set without the flash was way better than your first set with flash. (but some of them were underexposed--which probably resulted in the apparent softness you were referring to).

Macushla · April 1, 2010

Enitsugua wrote:

Don't. Not unless you are going to put it on a nice bracket off the camera. Get the flash away from the camera body if you are going to use it, otherwise you will get redeye. And flash won't stop the action until you learn to balance flash and ambient light in such a way that not enough ambient light gets through to cause motion blur but enough gets through to keep the background from being black and the photo from screaming "flash photography." The best way to use flash for wrestling is multiple units on remote trigger lighting up the gym (preferably via bounce), but that's really hard (and expensive) to do in a big tournament with many mats. Personally, I think you are better off with natural light if you can do it. Again, if you must go single flash, then go buy a decent bracket and cable.

A bracket is just not in the works right now. I still feel like a dork with the big lens and the flash.

I just got the camera (my first DSLR in Feb) I may get there someday but not just yet.

Enitsugua wrote:

BTW, your last set without the flash was way better than your first set with flash. (but some of them were underexposed--which probably resulted in the apparent softness you were referring to).

I really didn't realize they were underexposed or that being underexposed could contribute to the focus problems. Thanks for pointing it out, I did a lot of reading today on how to use the camera's histogram. I went back and looked at the histogram for my last shots and they were all a bit to the right of center. Next time I'll try to get it a tiny bit to the left of center. From what I read it is easier to manipulate the image in PP if it is just a hair overexposed. I had it backwards.

I think there is only one or two wrestling tournaments left. I feel like I'm getting a little closer. Thanks for your help.

Wrestling

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