I am interested in joining. Its a very good sports photography site with a good reputation. However, to join one must have a sponsor that is already a member. I have the sports shots that would be needed to upload.

You don't need a member, but it helps.

The only sports pics on your smugmug site are of a tennis match and frankly they are not close to the quality of shots you'll need to get accepted.

It is considered poor taste to troll for an endorsement, members might drop a hint if they think you are ready.

Do you have links to other sports shots? There is a broken link on your site for the Photo Catalog....

Originally Posted by r9jackson I am interested in joining. Its a very good sports photography site with a good reputation. However, to join one must have a sponsor that is already a member. I have the sports shots that would be needed to upload.

Have you looked through the sportshooter site at all? I am glad "you are interested" in joining, but is SS interested in you? Have you read this?

http://www.sportsshooter.com/news_story.html?id=1127

I personally would not sponsor someone asking for sponsorship on a forum. I am with tjk60, if I see someone with potential, the right attitude, solid skills I might consider contacting them. A member who sponsors someone is putting their reputation on the line as well.

Based on the few images in your gallery I believe you have some work ahead of you to meet some of the basic requirements to joining. I noticed from your equipment list you might want to consider shying away from indoor shooting if you are looking for portfolio type images. It will be very difficult to get quality images with your gear (indoors) that the folks at SS require for membership.

Don't get me wrong it is not an elite club by any stretch of the imagination, but it is definitely geared toward the working professional, students and interns and the highly capable part-time shooter.

Please spend some time looking at the link I posted, spend some time reading the various threads there and absorb some of the information that is posted. Learn some basic sports photography techniques and start building a portfolio. Participate in a few forums and learn to accept critique of your work. When the time is right you may find a member willing to help you achieve your desire to join. And yes I am a member and have been for a few years, just so you understand that my advice is not coming from left field. Good luck with your future shooting.

The topic of sportsshooter membership has come up in a couple threads with a few different people inquiring about joining. So I thought it might be worthwhile to have a single brief thread where some of the sportsshooter members can provide some information about what sportsshooter membership provides a shooter and what a person needs to do to become a member. Let me start by saying I am simply a member. I don't represent the site so my statements here are purely my opinion alone.

What is sportsshooter?
The sportsshooter site is predominantly meant for sports photographers, photojournalists, journalists and photo editors or students studying those fields in college. I believe the basic intent is the site is geared towards people who are or wish to be professionals in those fields - not hobbyists. Having said that, there is no statement regarding professional credentials - entry is judged primarily on the quality of your photo work. So there are certainly members who are just hobbyists. The idea is that the site provides a place to exchange information within the sportsshooting community. There are articles published about the industry, there is a message board which only members can post to - to discuss topics related to the industry. There is a classified section where only members can post which includes equipment buy/sell and job postings/availability. There is a feature called "the guide" which provides venue-specific information - could be exposure settings, directions where to park, where media office is located. etc. Just a place for media to post useful facts for others who might be visiting a venue for a first time. Each member also has a member page where they can provide information about themselves and their availability and what they shoot and where. Up to 10 images can be displayed on that site. Those pages are searchable - so potential employers can search by area and find photogs and contact information.

What have I gotten out of sportsshooter membership?
I've made some contacts in the industry that have provided great advice about my business and about equipment decisions as well as business decisions. These people aren't hiding behind false names and I know before hand what their credentials are. I know who they are, what experience they have and for the individuals I deal with I know they're doing this for a living so I have a high level of confidence in the advice they're giving. I've had 2 job offers in the last couple years due to my membership page. One of those offers was from ESPN.

It's also fair to say that being a member lends you an air of credibility. At least on message boards and in contacting other members. People that are active in message boards about sportsshooting either are members or know of membership. And while the standards are not "everyone is Sports Illustrated quality" there is a baseline of profiency. The typical hobbyist will NOT get in.

Sportsshooter is NOT the best of the best. There are tons of exceptional photogs out there that aren't members. All it is, is a community of people who meet a certain standard - in my mind it's a standard of 'credible sports shooter'.

What won't you get?
Sportsshooter is not about image critique. And, for the most part is not about "how do I shoot sports". You need to be highly proficient at sports shooting BEFORE you get in. So, it isn't a place to learn how to shoot football or how to shoot gymnastics. That's what forums like this are for. I'll also say you're not going to magically get job offers - membership isn't the key to the kingdom of jobs. So don't expect it to be.

What qualifications do I need to get in:
Again, this is just my personal opinion. You must already be an accomplished sports photographer. Not a general hobyist where your friends and family like your photos. I'm talking photos at the same level as your local newspaper sports page. There are some members who get in on the strength of photos in a single sports and others who shoot multiple sports. My suggestion is - if you only shoot 1 or 2 sports you had better be GREAT at it. And, let me be perfectly clear on one aspect: THE LEVEL OF PLAY DOESN'T MATTER. Absolutely NO ONE at sportsshooter will be impressed that you have shots of NCAA or PRO games if the shots are bad. Your family may be impressed that you have shots from Div I NCAA events. But people at sportsshooter will not. There are members who are held in highest regard (like Paul Alesse) who shoot primarily youth sports not NCAA or pros. It's the QUALITY that counts. Quality pop warner football shots are much more highly thought of than poor NFL shots.

How do you know if you're good enough?
Post in forums with other sports photographers - here is a great place. When you have other accomplished sports photographers telling you your work is good, then you can start believing it. Seek out feedback from photographer's whose work you admire. But it isn't a single post. It's got to be a history of posts where you prove time in and time out you can do quality work. Do that and a member will find YOU.

You also need to be able to caption your photos and provide cut lines. Spelling and grammar count and mistakes on those captions can keep you out of membership.

How do you get in?

For the most part, you need a sponsor. You can apply for membership without a sponsor but that's a tough road - you better be exceptional to get in that way. The majority of applicants (either sponsored or unsponsored) do not get in. Do NOT publicly ask for sponsors. That's a sure sign you're not ready. Most likely if a member thinks your ready they will contact you. I have had a couple people privately ask me and I've been honest with them about where they stand and what sportsshooter is about.

What do I look for when I'm looking at your photos and seeing if they're good enough?

• Every photo in the post is sharp.
• Action fills the entire frame - I don't want to see basketball shots from 30 feet away with a 50mm lens and the player filling 1/2 the frame
• shots should be level - I don't want to see crooked shots.
• BACKGROUNDS - every sport is different, but backgrounds need to be as clean as possible. Here's where equipment makes a huge difference. Baseball shots with parents/cars/porta-potties in decent focus are not good sports shots. You can't move the field so you need fast glass to blur the backgrounds.
• Interesting photo - action or emotion. A kid standing in the batters box is boring 99% of the time. If its action is it peak? Is the ball/puck in the frame?
• good colors
• low noise.

One final note - personally when I consider sponsoring someone I look not only for photographic ability but for people who are serious about this being a professional endevor. If you're a parent giving away your photos or selling them for 99 cents sportsshooter isn't for you. As I said earlier the major benefits are in the business and professional capacity. So while there are some great pure hobbyist shooters out there - to me it's not a good fit if you're not seriously interested in doing it in a professional capacity.

Hopefull other members can chime in. If you've read all this - God Bless you for being patient!

Man, that about sums it up right there. I've got something to add to this post that I unfortunately learned the hard way. Just because you get accepted doesn't mean that these guys will give you the shirts of their backs. If you aren't a full time photographer who makes their living selling pics, it's going to be a bit of a rough road for you over there. The first year that I shot from the sidelines at Texas Tech football games I basically worked for free for Tech. I had to sign my life away almost. Sure, I got sideline and press box access, but I had to give them copies of all of my pics, they could do whatever they wanted with them, I got nothing, and I couldn't sell any of my pics. Well, I let this be known on SS while responding to a question on the forum and all hell broke loose. You would have thought that I was Osama Bin Laden walking through New York City. Everyone really let me have it for giving away my work. Did I know any better? No, I didn't at the time. Was it necessary for them to treat me like that? No, it wasn't. However, I understand where they are coming from. With the market blowing up with digital cameras, everyone know thinks they are a photographer if they go buy a DSLR. Because of that the society of sports photogs has grown at an alarming rate since parent Nancy now has a sweet camera, she can take pics of the kids soccer team and parents don't have to pay a professional. This is pretty much what is happening in the sports photography world and it really really upsets the folks who feed their kids by selling photos. So, I can relate and I learned what I needed to learn.

This last year, I still got to shoot with sideline and pressbox access, but I did so as a freelance photog. Tech got nothing from me. I was able to add the University of North Dakota to my list of clients when we played them here and I also got hired by the local paper and I sell them pics that they put on their website. So, the SS community got their point across to me and I no longer am one of the "Others." So, if any of you are thinking of or working towards becoming a member, take the lesson I learned the hard way to heart. The SS community is a bit of a good ol boy place. It's not all peaches and cream for the new guys especially if you aren't a full time pro. The Dgrin community here is a great place to hone your craft. There are many of us here that will shoot straight with you on your pics and will give good and bad critique. That simply doesn't happen over there. Nobody posts pics for people to see other than on their personal site. I'm pretty sure 99% of the folks in this forum aren't full time Pro photogs, so this is the best place for you.

As for me, I started as a hobbyist, then got a Pro SmugMug account, began selling pics of local MX races, became a contributing photographer to a MX magazine, started getting hired to be the series photographer for local racing series and track photographer for my local tracks, then started with football and now shoot freelance and sell those pics as well. So, I'm not a full time pro and never intend to be, but I am working on continuing to climb the ladder of success as a freelance photog and the SS community has helped me with that and for that, I am thankful that I am a member.

I enjoy reading through sportsshooter.com, I have gotten some good info from that site. I hope they keep it open to us general photographers. As for membership the above posts covered it pretty well. It would not be good to let every one in and water down the content.

John, well said, well done and thanks!

To try and make the point a different way:

I'm a pretty good golfer too, (a 2 hdcp then) and a few years ago was playing with my brother and my nephew. (They are not good.. ;-0).

I had one of those days that everything went it the hole and shot 68. The next week, while at a family party, my nephew tells everyone what I shot. The questions immediately started flying, "Why aren't you on the tour?" "Could you beat Tiger?"

My response was simple (and relates here)

I'm a two hdcp. That means there are 770,000 golfers in the world that are better than me.

Practice, practice, practice.....

All points well said. I first wanted to be a SS member due to the "badge of honor" and respect amongst my shooting peers. I was denied the first couple of times I applied, but like John mentioned continued to post in forums and ask lots of questions in order to learn more. Don't be 'tricked' by the name of the website ("Sportsshooter") as there is probably just as many, if not more, journalist and news photographers on the site. As John also mentioned, the site is not one to go to to learn how to shoot sports, but it is helpful to get new ideas and methods related to not just photography, but also the business side of photography.

I merged the two sportshooter threads.

Very well said. Thanks to all for the input. The information answered a lot of the questions i had. i know now what i need to do..
thanks again,
curtis

Originally Posted by ian408 I merged the two sportshooter threads.

Why?

You merged one one thread that was asking (not proper etiquette)for a sponsor to get into sportshooter with a very informative thread (Thanks John! It should/could be a sticky) with insightful information.

2 totally different threads IMO.

I for one have decided not to become a member even though I have a sponsor.

I'm a "Combat Sports Photographer" in the Minneapolis area, and I already know my market. I've been published in a few magazines for my MMA work, know the promoters and fighters in my state, have had customers from coast to coast, and regularly get contacted those from near and abroad. Getting exposure for myself and my work really isn't an issue.

I also don't feel like discussing what I do with "professionals". Particularly the part where I give away ideas to people that are making far more money than myself. I'm selfish like that.

I think the two threads were meant to be merged! It's funny how there is a discussion over here in Dgrin, an egalitarian forum open to anyone and their opinions, no matter how little or greatly qualified, when the discussion is taboo in the other forum!

But I suppose simply making this comment is how to be blackballed from the club.....

Originally Posted by r9jackson I am interested in joining. Its a very good sports photography site with a good reputation. However, to join one must have a sponsor that is already a member. I have the sports shots that would be needed to upload.

As I mentioned earlier in the other Sportshooter thread, I am withdrawing my request for a sponsor. I didn't know the turmoil I was starting and apologize to anyone I offended.

Originally Posted by r9jackson As I mentioned earlier in the other Sportshooter thread, I am withdrawing my request for a sponsor. I didn't know the turmoil I was starting and apologize to anyone I offended.

No worries my friend. Being a member of SS is kinda sacred to whom have made it in. So, everyone tends to try to make it hard to let others in, otherwise it wouldn't mean anything to be a member.

Originally Posted by Erbeman No worries my friend. Being a member of SS is kinda sacred to whom have made it in. So, everyone tends to try to make it hard to let others in, otherwise it wouldn't mean anything to be a member.

In the interests of keeping this dialog open and public I'm going to take a different tact than Russ. To me there isn't anything sacred about a membership in sportsshooter. Remember, as I said earlier I have no illusions about membership - this is NOT a community of the TOP 1% or whatever. Think of membership like a CPA credential. No need to think in awe of people that are members - I certainly wouldn't use the term 'sacred'. And it should be repeated - there are many, many sports shooters out there that never bother to gain membership. Many of them very successful and extremely talented. I like to think of membersip as akin to a Bachelor's degree. There are plenty of talented people in the world without bachelor's degrees. There are also plenty of people with bachelor's degrees who I wouldn't want working for my company. But just like a bachelor's degree takes work, so does sportsshooter membership. You have to put in the work - first then you get the degree / membership. The big difference here being - sportsshooter membership is hardly a requirement for jobs.

In the end - I am far more interested in the quality of work product and quality of advice (in the case of forums) rather than the sportsshooter membership. Sure I'm proud of the fact I'm in it. If I weren't it wouldn't be my avatar. But at the end of the day, the quality of work is what's important. Snaplocally is a very good example. He doesn't want to join - but his work is better than quite a few sportsshooter members.

Again, just my personal opinion.

What is SportsShooter.com?

SportsShooter.com is an online community and resource for sports photographers and other working photojournalists.

It serves as an informative and inspiring site for anyone who aspires to be on the sidelines capturing great moments at their favorite sporting venue.

______


A company looking to hire a photographer can type in their area (state, country, city) and find someone in their area. Members are required to put forth their full name, address, and phone numbers, and of course a user gallery as for their work to be seen.

Originally Posted by Glort I am interested to know what if any benefits there would be for me as an SS member. ..., Business info is also what appeals to me. I try to post up help for others but am becoming a bit frustrated that no one seems to be able to help with the few questions I would like to know about so I'm wondering if a forum of more professional shooters could be of help in what I specifically do? I have shot sports for magazines and been published regularly when I was interested in that so I don't think the membership requirements of the Photo quality as outlined would be much problem. I have to say I'm a bit lost on the status thing. I understand SS is a website membership, not a recognized professional association or is that incorrect??

Here's my take on your questions:

• Typically when people are new to sportsshooter and have a business question they'll post it in the forum over there - only members can post. There may or may not be public discussion. But very often much of the discussion is via email behind the scenes. But like any other community, whether or not people take the time out to respond to you depends on your relationship to them. If you're viewed as a positive contributor to the community you're more likely, IMO, to get help. I have a couple individuals I will trade emails with regarding questions about the industry or my business so I no longer post business specific questions.
• As to whether or not it will be helpful for you - it only costs $25 per year. So, if you've got images that meet the criteria it's not much of an investment - try it for a couple years and if it doesn't get you anything you'vee only wasted $50.
• As for the status - your interpretation is correct. Sports photographers, myself included, tend to be a very prideful lot. In conversations with other shooters in the real world working professionally, I've never had sportsshooter come up. It tends to come up on the message boards. I think many people on sports forums look at it as a badge of honer that they are more than a Guy With Camera (GWC). Having said that though - if you look at the huge list of members, most don't post on Sportsshooter or other message forums - those people are in it for a chance at networking. But, even looking at it as an unimportant status symbol - that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Not if it causes a person to critically look at their work product and challenge themselves to do better. Even if you're not making money if people can use it as a motivator to get better. But within the professional community I don't get any sense whatsoever that membership has anywhere near the same status as it does to message boards. But that doesn't mean the conacts you make and the advice you get can't be worth membership. Just like being a member of a local chamber of commerce. It's another avenue to network and learn.

Again, all this is my own personal opinion.

Originally Posted by johng As for the status - your interpretation is correct. Sports photographers, myself included, tend to be a very prideful lot. In conversations with other shooters in the real world working professionally, I've never had sportsshooter come up. It tends to come up on the message boards.

So far I have only worked one sporting event as a professional.

I was working for a sports shooter member, who in my opinion was unprofessional. Including not keeping track of when i was there. no contact for months after the event. And finally when i got paid I was underpaid because they refused to believe I was there one of the days I was.

Another shooter there specifically asked if I was a sports shooter member. I also considered him much more professional than the person i was working for.

So my experience it has come up in conversation, and I agree that the quality of SS members vary widely even from my limited experience.

Technically speaking, a "Sports Shooter" is an individual who was accepted by a panel of judges for a membership to a website based on the perception of quality work, and the accepted individual paid their $25 annual fee. Your particular experience is based on the quality of person you dealt with, which can be as random as the next person you sit next to on a bus, train, or plane, website membership notwithstanding.