Art Leather

Agnieszka · December 3, 2009

So, have to vent!

I have been a Art Leather customer for a couple of years now, and have to say, now they really went way downhill. I just got a phone call from somebody, explaining me that I'll get charged an additional $200-300 PER ALBUM ORDER (for any orders I made THIS YEAR!!!!!!!!), as they "forgot" to charge me the "printing" of the pages ... you guys have to understand, that I paid around $400-$500 per album already (AND they went up with the price since last time + I had issues with EVERY SINGLE order this year!!)

So .... I don't know how you guys do it, but usually budget the amount I got charged for my LAST album order (as the size & amount of pages is usually the same and I've been with them already for so long), so my overall pricing this year just went up by 50%!!!! I'll be charged an insane additional amount now for NOT the best quality and I don't even want to say anything about customer service ... :soapbox

Well, ... lesson learned, will never order from them again & thought I'd give you guys a heads-up. Applying additional, unexpected charges at the end of a year, is UNACCEPTABLE!

Mitchell · December 3, 2009

Angie,
Are they retroactively charging you for albums you have already created and paid for this year??

This makes no sense!

If they are just telling you that future prices will be 50% higher, then your best option is to vote with your feet and find another vendor. This issue coupled with their poor service would make the move a no-brainer.

jbakerphoto · December 3, 2009

Agnieszka wrote:

So, have to vent!

I have been a Art Leather customer for a couple of years now, and have to say, now they really went way downhill. I just got a phone call from somebody, explaining me that I'll get charged an additional $200-300 PER ALBUM ORDER (for any orders I made THIS YEAR!!!!!!!!), as they "forgot" to charge me the "printing" of the pages ... you guys have to understand, that I paid around $400-$500 per album already (AND they went up with the price since last time + I had issues with EVERY SINGLE order this year!!)

So .... I don't know how you guys do it, but usually budget the amount I got charged for my LAST album order (as the size & amount of pages is usually the same and I've been with them already for so long), so my overall pricing this year just went up by 50%!!!! I'll be charged an insane additional amount now for NOT the best quality and I don't even want to say anything about customer service ... :soapbox

Well, ... lesson learned, will never order from them again & thought I'd give you guys a heads-up. Applying additional, unexpected charges at the end of a year, is UNACCEPTABLE!

Definitly sounds like a good time to find someone else.....

Agnieszka · December 3, 2009

Mitchell wrote:

Angie,
Are they retroactively charging you for albums you have already created and paid for this year?? This makes no sense!

If they are just telling you that future prices will be 50% higher, then your best option is to vote with your feet and find another vendor. This issue coupled with their poor service would make the move a no-brainer.

Yup! For ALL the albums I submitted this year!!

I had no words, when I first talked to the customer representative that called me this am. I wrote them a nasty email, not expecting much out of it, but this is just RIDICULOUS.

Agnieszka · December 3, 2009

unclejon wrote:

Definitly sounds like a good time to find someone else.....

Luckily I am just about to start working on all my albums from this year ...., they sure won't get any of that money .... idiots.

lizzard_nyc · December 3, 2009

Agnieszka wrote:

Yup! For ALL the albums I submitted this year!!

I had no words, when I first talked to the customer representative that called me this am. I wrote them a nasty email, not expecting much out of it, but this is just RIDICULOUS.

I'm the exact opposite of an expert in this field--but that doesn't even sound legal!
Can you not call your CC company and make sure they don't charge to it--can you not refuse payment--
Honestly is there something in the contract you signed that says they can raise their fees anytime (sort of like raising your the interests rate on a CC without notice)?

If you have access to a lawyer I'd be running to his office.

Agnieszka · December 3, 2009

lizzard_nyc wrote:

I'm the exact opposite of an expert in this field--but that doesn't even sound legal!
Can you not call your CC company and make sure they don't charge to it--can you not refuse payment--
Honestly is there something in the contract you signed that says they can raise their fees anytime (sort of like raising your the interests rate on a CC without notice)?

If you have access to a lawyer I'd be running to his office.

I was thinking about going to a lawyer, btu sounds like more trouble than what it's worth ...

The thing is that they didn't "raise" their prices, but that they never charged me for the printing part (of the print & bind service, which I used - go figure!). I knew they raised their prices, that's why the albums were already $100 more all the sudden, which was "ok", as I was just used to their process, and didn't want to be bothered finding somebody new ... But if I would have known what the real charge would be, I would have NEVER ordered any more albums from them. So I guess it's sort of my fault, by not double checking their pricing list, and just assuming that the last charge (for the same album) will be the same for the next album that I submit ... I mean, come on ... they forgot to charge me for the printing for EVERY SINGLE ALBUM I submitted this year??? How insanely stupid do you have to be??

lizzard_nyc · December 3, 2009

Agnieszka wrote:

I was thinking about going to a lawyer, btu sounds like more trouble than what it's worth ...

The thing is that they didn't "raise" their prices, but that they never charged me for the printing part (of the print & bind service, which I used - go figure!). I knew they raised their prices, that's why the albums were already $100 more all the sudden, which was "ok", as I was just used to their process, and didn't want to be bothered finding somebody new ... But if I would have known what the real charge would be, I would have NEVER ordered any more albums from them. So I guess it's sort of my fault, by not double checking their pricing list, and just assuming that the last charge (for the same album) will be the same for the next album that I submit ... I mean, come on ... they forgot to charge me for the printing for EVERY SINGLE ALBUM I submitted this year??? How insanely stupid do you have to be??

Angie,
I feel for you.
Going to a lawyer would be a hassle, but I'm a bulldog when it comes to stuff like that and I'd be beating down their door.

I hope it works out for you.
Harsh lesson.

Agnieszka · December 3, 2009

lizzard_nyc wrote:

Angie,
I feel for you.
Going to a lawyer would be a hassle, but I'm a bulldog when it comes to stuff like that and I'd be beating down their door.

I hope it works out for you.
Harsh lesson.

Thanks Liz!

I might still do it, I'll see what the final amount will be that will be applied to the credit card.

Def. a fantastic way to loose your customers.

Bsimon · December 3, 2009

Angie,

Depending on which credit card company you use, you will likely be able to issue a charge-back to your vendor.

Simply submit your invoices with the incorrect amounts due on them along with your payment receipts.

9 times out of 10 the credit card companies, especially amex, will rule in the cardholders favor, especially in a situation like this.

If the credit card company does not rule in your favor and you are unable to 'settle' the charges at an acceptable amount, then lesson learned and new vendors found!

Good luck and sorry about this misfortune
B

zoomer · December 3, 2009

Major fail!
Can you cancel you open orders and take them somewhere else?
I would not pay them any more for orders already completed, their mistake they eat it.

Agnieszka · December 3, 2009

Bsimon wrote:

Angie,

Depending on which credit card company you use, you will likely be able to issue a charge-back to your vendor.

Simply submit your invoices with the incorrect amounts due on them along with your payment receipts.

9 times out of 10 the credit card companies, especially amex, will rule in the cardholders favor, especially in a situation like this.

If the credit card company does not rule in your favor and you are unable to 'settle' the charges at an acceptable amount, then lesson learned and new vendors found!

Good luck and sorry about this misfortune
B

Thanks Bsimon, great advise. I might just do that and see what happens. Definitely worth a try, it's a lot of money they want to have all the sudden ...

Agnieszka · December 3, 2009

zoomer wrote:

Major fail!
Can you cancel you open orders and take them somewhere else?
I would not pay them any more for orders already completed, their mistake they eat it.

Luckily I don't have any open orders at the moment ... I was just about to submit 5 album orders, which they for sure won't get now ........ :crazy

Bsimon · December 3, 2009

Angie,

No problem,

Let me know how it goes. I run a catalog business and am fairly well versed in how to handle situations similar to yours. If you have any other questions feel free to send me a PM.

Take Care,
B

Agnieszka · December 3, 2009

Bsimon wrote:

Angie,

No problem,

Let me know how it goes. I run a catalog business and am fairly well versed in how to handle situations similar to yours. If you have any other questions feel free to send me a PM.

Take Care,
B

Thanks B! I really appreciate the help & will keep you guys posted.

Bsimon · December 3, 2009

Also, it is imortant to note that a chargeback will only work if they have already issued this charge to your credit card. If they have not, I would deffinately speak with your credit company before any pending charges take place.

Agnieszka · December 3, 2009

Bsimon wrote:

Also, it is imortant to note that a chargeback will only work if they have already issued this charge to your credit card. If they have not, I would deffinately speak with your credit company before any pending charges take place.

Thanks B! Just talked to my husband, ... he's a bit better about handing stuff like this than I am

and we'll see if we can put a hold on this payment. Thanks again!!

Swartzy · December 3, 2009

This sounds like a ploy on their part to accumulate more money....IF they didn't charge for the printing....too bad..that is their fault and I'd tell them to kiss my hiney. I had a similar experience with a print vendor 6 months ago...they told me they "FORGOT" to charge me printing and it would show on my next credit card statement. I told them I'm not paying as I had the confirmation #'s and the order completed, all done to client....and no, they aren't charging me "AFTER" the fact.

That's like going back to a wedding client and saying...geez, I forgot to charge you and additional so & so because I stayed 2 hours longer that day....it isn't going to happen....period.

Tell them to take a hike...stop credit card payment and stick to your guns.

heatherfeather · December 3, 2009

Swartzy wrote:

That's like going back to a wedding client and saying...geez, I forgot to charge you and additional so & so because I stayed 2 hours longer that day....it isn't going to happen....period.

.

Actually I do that all the time since my packages are time based, schedule driven. We often make a package with the intention to "see how long it goes" and I bill them later as we agreed. It is tough for me to remember to bill them, though!

heatherfeather · December 3, 2009

Angie, this is just miserable of them to do to you! I would really take everyones advice and fight it!

If those Art Leather folks knew what they were doing when they were meanies to Angie.... all this negative publicity... They had to know it would result in this type of reaction.

Agnieszka · December 3, 2009

"kiss my hiney"

Well said Dave

Seriously though guys. Thanks for everybody's advise

... I honestly though I just have to eat the cost. Cross your fingers, I just stopped any payment ....

Agnieszka · December 3, 2009

heatherfeather wrote:

If those Art Leather folks knew what they were doing when they were meanies to Angie.... all this negative publicity... They had to know it would result in this type of reaction.

Well, I'll definitely not make any sort of good advertisement for them anymore

Darren Troy C · December 3, 2009

Very sorry to hear that, Angie! I'm sure whatever you said to them is probably ten-fold NICER than what would have come out of my mouth. Crap like this doesn't FLOAT! Art Leather just lost an extremely valuable customer, gained tons of negative exposure, and managed to alienate any future prospects. M O R O N S !! !!

Agnieszka · December 3, 2009

Darren Troy C wrote:

Very sorry to hear that, Angie! I'm sure whatever you said to them is probably ten-fold NICER than what would have come out of my mouth. Crap like this doesn't FLOAT! Art Leather just lost an extremely valuable customer, gained tons of negative exposure, and managed to alienate any future prospects. M O R O N S !! !!

I was actually not that bad the first time around / always feel bad for the person on the phone. But after I talked to the first person, and decided to call them again it was a different story + I also sent them an email, just in case they didn't get the message / didn't get a reply yet .... quelle surprise!

bmoreshooter · December 3, 2009

What they are trying to do is horrible and I agree with earlier response "may not be legal. I am curious though, was there someting that made you beleive that the prints were free or were you assuming it was built into the total cost? Was there ever an invoice that showed that you owed printing fees? If they made it seem like it was all part of the original album fees and then changed their minds later, that's a form of "bait and switch". If not and you knew that there were printing charges and you just thought they made an error in your favor, and they eventually caught up with their billing errors then the laws on their side. Either way it's a crappy way for them to do business and you can beleive they will never see a dime from me or any of my associates. Bad press can strech a very long way.

Agnieszka · December 3, 2009

bmoreshooter wrote:

What they are trying to do is horrible and I agree with earlier response "may not be legal. I am curious though, was there someting that made you beleive that the prints were free or were you assuming it was built into the total cost? Was there ever an invoice that showed that you owed printing fees? If they made it seem like it was all part of the original album fees and then changed their minds later, that's a form of "bait and switch". If not and you knew that there were printing charges and you just thought they made an error in your favor, and they eventually caught up with their billing errors then the laws on their side. Either way it's a crappy way for them to do business and you can beleive they will never see a dime from me or any of my associates. Bad press can strech a very long way.

I wish I would have felt that lucky. No, I never realized they didn't charge me for the printing. Their BIND price is more than the PRINT & BIND (combined) this year, so I just figured they changed their pricing .......

There was never an invoice telling me that I still owe them any $$, that's why I just assumed they charged me the amount they usually charge for print AND bind.

Well, we'll see what the outcome will be ...

Qarik · December 3, 2009

Agnieszka wrote:

I wish I would have felt that lucky. No, I never realized they didn't charge me for the printing. Their BIND price is more than the PRINT & BIND (combined) this year, so I just figured they changed their pricing .......

There was never an invoice telling me that I still owe them any $$, that's why I just assumed they charged me the amount they usually charge for print AND bind.

Well, we'll see what the outcome will be ...

be sure to send the sales/marketiing folks a link to this thread as you close your account with them.

Agnieszka · December 3, 2009

Qarik wrote:

be sure to send the sales/marketiing folks a link to this thread as you close your account with them.

Yeah, right???!!

TPBinKC · December 3, 2009

Agnieszka wrote:

Yeah, right???!!

Send them a bill for the time it is taking to get it sorted out. See how they like it.

Agnieszka · December 3, 2009

TPBinKC wrote:

Send them a bill for the time it is taking to get it sorted out. See how they like it.

Seriously!

Art Scott · December 3, 2009

Agnieszka wrote:

Well, I'll definitely not make any sort of good advertisement for them anymore

Do a review at RESELLR RATNGS......you may find more there ......also if you blog.....be sure and do a ranting rave blog and also on facebook.......that way if someone searches for ART LEATHER.....they may see the shenanigans they are pulling on you..............

Also call the BBB in their town and file a complaint.....as well as consumer fraud with their District Attorney's Office......that way they know you mean business and that you demand to be treat with respect and honesty.

Art Leather

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