City Shots - People

torags · June 13, 2009

Some people shots from yesterday - Lisbon

bdcolen · June 13, 2009

Closer! Closer! Some thoughts about photographing on the street
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The first two questions to ask yourself when shooting people in the street are: Why am I shooting this/these people? And am I close enough? Robert Capa, the first modern war photographer, is credited with the line, "If your pictures aren't good enough, you're not close enough." The line has been repeated so often that it's become a cliche, but it is a cliche worth endlessly repeating.

Before I critique each of these photos, let me say that you are definitely seeing some interesting things as you wander about. You're heading in the right direction.

But let's think about the Capa dictum, and the first question, in relation to each of these photos:

Couple at the fountain - why bother? Yes, they are a charming young couple - so what? IF you really wanted to shoot this, you needed to do two things, the first of which is get much closer; the second is work the situation. That is, shoot it from every conceivable angle, shoot the situation as it develops. Don't just take a grab shot and walk away, rather shoot for as long as they're there doing something you think is interesting. I'm going to guess that everyone on this list knows about Henri Cartier-Bresson and the "decisive moment." And I am also going to guess that you think the "decisive moment" is that instant when you see something and shoot, right? Well, it's not. The real "decisive moment" is that moment when you see the photographic possibilities in a situation and then the real work begins. You work it, and work it, and work it. And if you are both skilled and lucky, eventually you will end up with an image worth keeping.

Second photo - What's your point? I'm guessing that you were attracted by the figure in the foreground. But you were so far away that I don't know why you were attracted.

Third - Street Clown - CLOSER. I assume you were going for the 'arrow in the head.' So move in on him and get rid of the extraneous material. Every bit of your frame is precious - don't waste it.

Fourth - Street woman. Again, there were real possibilities here, assuming you were going for the juxtaposition of the street woman and the sign behind her. Assuming that was it, you should have shot her face on, close, and you would have had it.

Fifth Photo - Woman climbing hill - I know why you shot this one; it had terrific possibilities; it could have been a really wonderful street photo. But you had to work it. You should have shot repeatedly. You should have walked along as the woman worked her way up the hill. You should have shot close to and in front of her, looking down the hill, to show us what she was really struggling against. You should have gotten the young couple going by her, and waited for other people to pass her by.

Sixth photo - The kids. Very nice light, cute kids. You could have improved this one by moving more toward the front of the line, so that we could see the kids faces. As it is, it's just a snap of a group of kids walking along.

I'm going to post some photos in a thread labled B. D.'s Examples that may be helpful

Mod note: BD has posted some examples here.

B. D.

whiterice · June 13, 2009

Learning so much here.....I feel like a leech.

Dave P · June 14, 2009

I'm in.

torags · June 14, 2009

I took a look at BDs thread. Very nice close ups.

BD gave a thoughtful constructive response to my shots, and I appreciate it. I think it deserves a thoughtful response, a response which may help others.

First that was my first day of shooting people. I was in Lisbon. My thoughts of shooting street people, is more along the line of "guerrilla" photography. I despise posed shots. So I believe I have to shot on the sneak. Shooting on the sneak with a long fast lens is easier, but more noticeable. I had my 24/70.

Technical excellence is elusive. With your camera resting on (and shooting from) a baseball cap on a table while you're having a cappuccino and shooting, does not bode well for focus point. So I have justified the capture in these instances over the excellence. If one were a pro shooting for a newspaper, their printing resolution (and registration) leaves a photog a lot of leeway.

The shot of the woman street person was taken from my thigh while turned away. I got pieces of her in 5 exposures and a sharply angled whole shot. I like this type of shooting, but I have to get my aim right.

The woman walking up the street was taken at an angle I didn't prefer. She was watching & concentrating each step, I didn't want to flail around her like some paparazzi asshole. But I did want to get the incline of the street in since it was quite an accomplishment (done daily I suppose)

Getting to close to a subject while shooting has it's dangers and I have had a close experience like that in Seville

People develop different styles of images and reasons for capturing them, sometimes they're not better or worse just different.

I think BDs work is excellent, personally I would delete some, but that's a matter of personal choice and not a judgment of quality.

Here is one off my hat on a table @ too slow a shutter spped (it was getting dark)

This one presunrise, while shooting architectural shoots in old Seville. The architural setting is as important to me here as the people are

Rags

bdcolen · June 14, 2009

torags wrote:

I took a look at BDs thread. Very nice close ups.

BD gave a thoughtful constructive response to my shots, and I appreciate it. I think it deserves a thoughtful response, a response which may help others.

First that was my first day of shooting people. I was in Lisbon. My thoughts of shooting street people, is more along the line of "guerrilla" photography. I despise posed shots. So I believe I have to shot on the sneak. Shooting on the sneak with a long fast lens is easier, but more noticeable. I had my 24/70.

Technical excellence is elusive. With your camera resting on (and shooting from) a baseball cap on a table while you're having a cappuccino and shooting, does not bode well for focus point. So I have justified the capture in these instances over the excellence. If one were a pro shooting for a newspaper, their printing resolution (and registration) leaves a photog a lot of leeway.

The shot of the woman street person was taken from my thigh while turned away. I got pieces of her in 5 exposures and a sharply angled whole shot. I like this type of shooting, but I have to get my aim right.

The woman walking up the street was taken at an angle I didn't prefer. She was watching & concentrating each step, I didn't want to flail around her like some paparazzi asshole. But I did want to get the incline of the street in since it was quite an accomplishment (done daily I suppose)

Getting to close to a subject while shooting has it's dangers and I have had a close experience like that in Seville

People develop different styles of images and reasons for capturing them, sometimes they're not better or worse just different.

I think BDs work is excellent, personally I would delete some, but that's a matter of personal choice and not a judgment of quality.

Here is one off my hat on a table @ too slow a shutter spped (it was getting dark)

This one presunrise, while shooting architectural shoots in old Seville. The architural setting is as important to me here as the people are

Rags

Thanks for thinking about this and responding, Rags - I'm going to respond to your response, and then leave this discussion, as I don't want to turn these exchanges into debates.

First, "guerrilla photography" is just another way of saying "snap and run." Successful street photography requires honing your eye, and then being willing to put yourself in an often uncomfortable position to capture an image right. Yes, if you just click and run often enough you will undoubtedly get something interesting once and a while, but far less than you hope too.

Second, you are right that doing street photography - doing it right - can be risky. As I tell students in my classes, virtually no photo is worth a punch in the nose or worse, unless, of course, it's your job to take that photo, and you are willing to accept the risk. I myself tend to be a shrinking violet on the street, and will do my best to avoid confrontations. Frankly, if a situation is confrontational, it has completely changed, and the photo one initially hoped to get is long gone.

Next, whether one is shooting for a newspaper or one's pleasure, the goal should always be to produce the best possible image. The payoff, if you will, is the image, not where the image ultimately appears. The greatest street photographers were not newspaper photographers, they were street photographers. Take a look at the work of Gary Winnogrand, the patron saint of street photographers.

Next, and I cannot stress this enough - a "street photograph" is a kind of image, not necessarily a photograph of people in the street. It is usually an image rich in ambiguity; it may be humorous; it may - or may not - tell a story; it may reek of bathos or pathos; it should be an image we come back to again and again, and may see something more, or different in each time we see it. Or not.

The points I made about the photos you posted were intended to suggest ways that interesting scenes you saw could be turned into meaningful photos. The woman going up the hill had real possibilities, but it would have required working the scene; not jumping around like "some paparazzi asshole," but following and shooting like a serious photographer. A tilted grab with your back turned just won't do it.

As to the two shots you've added:

Woman with cart. Yes, that's what she is. Frankly, the only interesting element here is the blurred foot you were apologizing for.

(Another aside - I tell my students that though I don't believe in "rules" in photography, I do have a couple rules:
* No tilted horizons unless you absolutely cannot get what you need into the frame without tilting the camera. Tilted horizons are a all the rage now, but when I look at an image with a tilted horizon I think either: a. lazy photographer; b. drunk, stumbling photographer; or, c. disabled photographer with one leg shorter than the other.
* No bums. That is to say, I don't want to see photos of homeless/street people unless there is a genuine purpose to them. They, like tilted horizons, are a cheap trick, and they are a cheap trick at the expense of the subject. IF you can get am image of a "bum" that makes a statement about the condition of the subject, about society - for example, a homeless vet, in old fatigues, asleep on the sidewalk in front of an army recruiting center, go for it. But a guy in ragged clothes just to say "look at this guy in ragged clothes?" No.
* Respect your subjects. But more about that at another time. (Okay, and get close.)

The police station at night photo -
Yes, that's what it is. But what else is it? What does it tell us.

None of this is to suggest that you can't, or shouldn't, shoot what you want to shoot. We all have our interests, we all have our styles, and we all are willing to make different levels of commitment to our photography.

And, again, I am not holding myself up as some paragon of anything. All I am doing is telling you what I believe, and what I see. And...you are absolutely correct that there are some of my photos that should be deleted. As I said a day or two ago somewhere, we are our own worst editors.

Keep shooting,

B. D.

whiterice · June 14, 2009

I feel like I should be paying tuition. To whom should I send my check

.

Seriously, I am learning lots from this dialogue - thanks torags and BD. This is really why we come to Dgrin, isn't it?

torags · June 14, 2009

Since BD has left this discussion... I would like to broaden the horizon and supply address to send any checks.

First I agree with everything BD said (except for tilting).

I like to shoot motorsports; bikes and desert racing specifically. But I do shoot LeMans GP (cars), because it runs into nite.

But I have to say the images of the cars are so damn boring, if you don't tilt and crop close, you have an image that looks like they're parked. That is the only occasion when I think tilting is beneficial, there might be others, but I haven't seen them.

Oh... the address... faggeda bout it...

Rags

This turned into an interesting thread...

eL eSs Vee · June 14, 2009

torags wrote:

This turned into an interesting thread...

Very interesting, indeed!!

City Shots - People

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