WFT anybody?

Nikolai · May 25, 2009

I mean Wireless File Transmitter, Canon specialty grip.

I wonder if anybody has a first-person hands-on experience with this device. I am very much in favor of the general idea, but I have a gut feeling that it has some side effects and that setup may be challenging.

My MO is rather simple: a rather powerful laptop with Windows 7 RC (and wireless card, naturally) and a couple of latest EOS bodies (50D and 5D2). My key concern is that environment may not provide WiFi access. So my biggest question is - how do you set up communication between the PC and the WFT. Do you need to bring a wireless router? Or... :scratch :dunno

I also remember reading something about the need to disable camera sleep mode - which seems like a hassle I would like to avoid if possible.

Can anybody share?

TIA! :thumb

RogersDA · May 25, 2009

Nikolai wrote:

I mean Wireless File Transmitter, Canon specialty grip.

I wonder if anybody has a first-person hands-on experience with this device. I am very much in favor of the general idea, but I have a gut feeling that it has some side effects and that setup may be challenging.

My MO is rather simple: a rather powerful laptop with Windows 7 RC (and wireless card, naturally) and a couple of latest EOS bodies (50D and 5D2). My key concern is that environment may not provide WiFi access. So my biggest question is - how do you set up communication between the PC and the WFT. Do you need to bring a wireless router? Or...

I also remember reading something about the need to disable camera sleep mode - which seems like a hassle I would like to avoid if possible.

Can anybody share?

TIA!

Nik - no first hand experience. But, when researching it, I read a lot of people had a hard time configuring that thing to work with whatever device they were sending images to. I also read that it was very, very slow to transfer data. Now, with 5D MII raw file sizes - that may not be much improved.

Then you add the price tag for that thing and to me it's not even worth it.

Nikolai · May 26, 2009

Thanks David!

That is what I'm essentially afraid of. Cumbersome, unreliable setup and slow transfer speed....

It's a $800..$1000 piece of hardware which would be impossible to sell. And if it doesn't work the way it should (i.e. I take a picture and a few seconds later it is safe and sound on my laptop, so my assistant can start selling it while I keep shooting) - I just wasted a large chunk of hard earned money which I could definitely use in some other place...

Maybe Eye-Fi is the way to go? Any good experience with that?

Richard · May 26, 2009

Nik,

What is the problem you are hoping to solve here?

Nikolai · May 26, 2009

Richard wrote:

Nik,
What is the problem you are hoping to solve here?

I want a fast and a reliable wireless communication directly from my camera to my laptop. Few seconds top to transfer a single 21mp raw file. Ad hoc connection (so no WiFi presence required).

Can it be done?

aktse · May 26, 2009

Nikolai wrote:

I want a fast and a reliable wireless communication directly from my camera to my laptop. Few seconds top to transfer a single 21mp raw file. Ad hoc connection (so no WiFi presence required).

Can it be done?

Eyi-fi only transfers jpeg currently and it requires a wireless router with DHCP enabled connection, but contact Ziv (gillat, i think, on dgrin) since he works for eye-fi.

However, Adam Tow rigged his own wireless workflow for the times when he's on the road. I think it's pretty slick, but it requires an eye-fi and a evdo connection.

Richard · May 26, 2009

Nikolai wrote:

I want a fast and a reliable wireless communication directly from my camera to my laptop. Few seconds top to transfer a single 21mp raw file. Ad hoc connection (so no WiFi presence required).

Can it be done?

I don't speak from personal experience with any of the products, but I don't think you're going to be happy.

Eye-Fi is a non-starter--the cards are SD form factor, so they won't work with your cameras.

Canon WFT will only do 802.11b protocol directly to your laptop, which would be unacceptably slow for even a 50D RAW file. If you put a wireless router between the camera and computer, you can run 802.11g. Don't ask me why you need the router--I don't understand it. Just reporting what I have read. 802.11g has a real-world average throughput of 22 Mb/sec. At that rate, it would take 2.75 seconds to transfer a 5D2 file. Call it 3.

I guess you could say that it would work for high enough values of "few".

But if you're anything like me, three seconds between shots will drive you nuts. My take on the matter is that it's not worth pursuing till you can do an ad hoc connection to your laptop at 802.11n speed. Couple of years, maybe.

In the meantime, you might want to investigate USB repeaters and extension cables. It's not as nice as wireless, but a longer cable would let you shoot tethered with more freedom of movement. There also may be other products on the market that haven't been discussed yet, so maybe someone else will pop in with a better suggestion.

Nikolai · May 26, 2009

aktse wrote:

Eyi-fi only transfers jpeg currently and it requires a wireless router with DHCP enabled connection, but contact Ziv (gillat, i think, on dgrin) since he works for eye-fi.

However, Adam Tow rigged his own wireless workflow for the times when he's on the road. I think it's pretty slick, but it requires an eye-fi and a evdo connection.

Thanks April!

Jpeg only is OK. I shoot RAW + small jpeg, those jpegs are more than enough to show on 1920x1200. I simply need to show them asap so the customers get more interested in purchasing now as opposed to later (or never:-)

That EVDO solution looks interesting, I need to read it in a greater details

20DNoob · May 26, 2009

Hey Nikolai, check out this guys blog.

http://petetek.blogspot.com/2009/05/50-wireless-tethering-solution.html

This is his DIY WFT solution and seems to be working on newer versions in the other postings, looks pretty interesting and much easier on the wallet.

Nikolai · May 26, 2009

Richard wrote:

I don't speak from personal experience with any of the products, but I don't think you're going to be happy.

Eye-Fi is a non-starter--the cards are SD form factor, so they won't work with your cameras.

My understanding is that there is SD-to-CF adapter, priced about $100 or less - in any case way cheaper than the price of a grip...

Canon WFT will only do 802.11b protocol directly to your laptop, which would be unacceptably slow for even a 50D RAW file. If you put a wireless router between the camera and computer, you can run 802.11g. Don't ask me why you need the router--I don't understand it. Just reporting what I have read. 802.11g has a real-world average throughput of 22 Mb/sec. At that rate, it would take 2.75 seconds to transfer a 5D2 file. Call it 3.

3 sec is OK. I shoot with remote lights, they can't do continuous drive anyway.

I guess you could say that it would work for high enough values of "few". But if you're anything like me, three seconds between shots will drive you nuts. My take on the matter is that it's not worth pursuing till you can do an ad hoc connection to your laptop at 802.11n speed. Couple of years, maybe.

I never did ad hoc connection before. I can get 802.11n router /wap, no problem. The question is: will WFT support this protocol?

In the meantime, you might want to investigate USB repeaters and extension cables. It's not as nice as wireless, but a longer cable would let you shoot tethered with more freedom of movement. There also may be other products on the market that haven't been discussed yet, so maybe someone else will pop in with a better suggestion.

For studio I'm OK even with my current 15ft cable (although it drives me nuts at times). But for the fashion show it's a practical impossibility. I'll be better off swapping cards after each run.

20DNoob · May 26, 2009

Here you go.

Delkin Devices DDSDFLS-AD SD to CF Adapter.

Nikolai · May 26, 2009

20DNoob wrote:

Hey Nikolai, check out this guys blog.

http://petetek.blogspot.com/2009/05/50-wireless-tethering-solution.html

This is his DIY WFT solution and seems to be working on newer versions in the other postings, looks pretty interesting and much easier on the wallet.

Christian, thank you!

This one definitely looks something I would love to try. Even if it fails, the price of a failure is not that bad:-)

cmason · May 26, 2009

You know Nik, it is possible, that if you didn't object to a wire and maybe a small shoulder bag, to buy one of those $399 Dell Mini 9's, tether the camera via USB to it, and have the netbook simply write to a drive on your display PC via wifi (netuse). Would be a whole lot cheaper than the dedicated Canon solution.

You could mock it up with a laptop and a pc you have laying around the house. The netbook simply needs to be able to run the Canon EOS utility (so windows not linux) but other wise, its nothing special. You can even ad hoc the networking between two PCs, but if you have a workstation for showing the images, a router would be no extra work.

Nikolai · May 26, 2009

cmason wrote:

You know Nik, it is possible, that if you didn't object to a wire and maybe a small shoulder bag, to buy one of those $399 Dell Mini 9's, tether the camera via USB to it, and have the netbook simply write to a drive on your display PC via wifi (netuse). Would be a whole lot cheaper than the dedicated Canon solution.

You could mock it up with a laptop and a pc you have laying around the house. The netbook simply needs to be able to run the Canon EOS utility (so windows not linux) but other wise, its nothing special. You can even ad hoc the networking between two PCs, but if you have a workstation for showing the images, a router would be no extra work.

Thank you!

I don't mind a short wire, and I usually wear photo vest, so carrying a small external device or battery pack is not a problem.

I really like Wirelss USB solution, it seems to be the easiest and least expensive, so I wanna try that one first. 30 ft is a bit limiting but it would have worked two last times, so I may be OK for now (at least for the price:-)

Nikolai · May 26, 2009

UPDATE:
ordered Wirelss USB kit.
$39 from Amazon, free shipping.
Impossible to pass:-)
Will report how it does when I get it working...

20DNoob · May 26, 2009

Gonna have to keep checking this thread to see how it all pans out for you.

Best of luck.

Richard · May 26, 2009

Nikolai wrote:

UPDATE:
ordered Wirelss USB kit.
$39 from Amazon, free shipping.
Impossible to pass:-)
Will report how it does when I get it working...

This sounds really interesting. Looking forward to hearing how well it works.

norcalshooter · May 26, 2009

20DNoob wrote:

Hey Nikolai, check out this guys blog.

http://petetek.blogspot.com/2009/05/50-wireless-tethering-solution.html

This is his DIY WFT solution and seems to be working on newer versions in the other postings, looks pretty interesting and much easier on the wallet.

Thanks for posting the link

I stumbled onto that DIY the other day but could not find the link again when I saw this thread.

hgernhardtjr · May 30, 2009

FWIW, the Cables Unlimited dongles work absolutely transparently with both my 30D and 5DMKII, with the 5d2 being able to provide live view focusing, etc. on the computer. I have only used the setup within a 15 foot radius at this time, but it does what I want. The dongles simply replace a cable stretching between camera and computer.

I have not bothered to modify the dongle cradle that Pete's Tech site mentions since I intend to mount a plastic flash-foot to it (from ebay for a couple dollars for two, left over from when I made a flexible stalk external mic mount awhile back), and can simply hang an Energi2Go 2-cell "phone charger" pack (borrowed for a day) to it which realy does provide enough power for 250 shots (I've tried that many, shooting JPG/RAW).

However, today I discovered a 1" square internal lithium battery "phone charger" (which itself is rechargable) which will easily stick onto the cradle itself. I'm charging it right now, and if that provides enough tethered shots and/or WFT with my notebook to meet my minimal needs, I'll use it. The only thing I've noticed is that the dongle in the cradle when powered with the wall wart tends to get quite warm. With the Energi pack it did not seem to get quite as warm, but that may just be me.

Nikolai · May 30, 2009

hgernhardtjr wrote:

FWIW, the Cables Unlimited dongles work absolutely transparently with both my 30D and 5DMKII, with the 5d2 being able to provide live view focusing, etc. on the computer. I have only used the setup within a 15 foot radius at this time, but it does what I want. The dongles simply replace a cable stretching between camera and computer.

I have not bothered to modify the dongle cradle that Pete's Tech site mentions since I intend to mount a plastic flash-foot to it (from ebay for a couple dollars for two, left over from when I made a flexible stalk external mic mount awhile back), and can simply hang an Energi2Go 2-cell "phone charger" pack (borrowed for a day) to it which realy does provide enough power for 250 shots (I've tried that many, shooting JPG/RAW).

However, today I discovered a 1" square internal lithium battery "phone charger" (which itself is rechargable) which will easily stick onto the cradle itself. I'm charging it right now, and if that provides enough tethered shots and/or WFT with my notebook to meet my minimal needs, I'll use it. The only thing I've noticed is that the dongle in the cradle when powered with the wall wart tends to get quite warm. With the Energi pack it did not seem to get quite as warm, but that may just be me.

great info, thanks for sharing... Hope to get mine Monday, then I just need to figure out how to power the camera one... My current line of thought is to use camera's own batteries for it, but maybe I am daydreaming...

hgernhardtjr · May 30, 2009

I've been a bit hesitant to try a direct power feed from the camera since I need a male-to-male adapter to give it a "quick" try and do not have one — plus I am not sure if the camera's USB will supply enough power. That, of course, would be the ideal way. Nonetheless, it might be easiest to run a small plug out from the battery grip unit. Personally, if worse comes to worse I'll stick with an Energi2Go pack ... they are reasonably small and run around $15 if you order it from Office Depot. (Around my area of the Mid Ohio Valley, virtually nothing technical or photographic is available since Circuit City went belly up, so ordering is the only way to go.)

There's really no reason to dissassemble anything (except for mounting the plastic flash foot on the bottom of the cradle sometime soon), and since the Energi2Go does work .... If the one inch square Digipower module I picked up works, that is a nice, compact method, though. I thought I had a female mini-usb socket on hand to quickly make a very short cable to run from the Digipower to the cradle today, but do not ... so I may break open it's case and solder a round power plug in (the Digipower uses a male mini-usb to directly plug into cell phones and, of course, the Cables Unlimited cradle uses a round power-type plug typical to the older Motorola cell phones).

I'd be interested to hear if anyone powers the unit directly from the camera.

Art Scott · May 30, 2009

20DNoob wrote:

Here you go.

Delkin Devices DDSDFLS-AD SD to CF Adapter.

does any one know if THIS device will allow your card door to close....the older ones were just a few thousnths too tall with sd card rising above the card holder......
If the card door closes this just might get into the Eye-Fi game .................

Nikolai · May 30, 2009

hgernhardtjr wrote:

I've been a bit hesitant to try a direct power feed from the camera since I need a male-to-male adapter to give it a "quick" try and do not have one — plus I am not sure if the camera's USB will supply enough power. That, of course, would be the ideal way. Nonetheless, it might be easiest to run a small plug out from the battery grip unit. Personally, if worse comes to worse I'll stick with an Energi2Go pack ... they are reasonably small and run around $15 if you order it from Office Depot. (Around my area of the Mid Ohio Valley, virtually nothing technical or photographic is available since Circuit City went belly up, so ordering is the only way to go.)

There's really no reason to dissassemble anything (except for mounting the plastic flash foot on the bottom of the cradle sometime soon), and since the Energi2Go does work .... If the one inch square Digipower module I picked up works, that is a nice, compact method, though. I thought I had a female mini-usb socket on hand to quickly make a very short cable to run from the Digipower to the cradle today, but do not ... so I may break open it's case and solder a round power plug in (the Digipower uses a male mini-usb to directly plug into cell phones and, of course, the Cables Unlimited cradle uses a round power-type plug typical to the older Motorola cell phones).

I'd be interested to hear if anyone powers the unit directly from the camera.

I kinda doubt there is any power in Camera's USB outlet. I was thinking of sucking it from the grip...

We'll see.
BTW, Henry, do you have pics of your contraption? Would be really great to see how it can be done...

Nikolai · May 30, 2009

OK, here is what I'm thinking.
In my grip, there is a perfectly capable source of 7.5V DC juice (one or two batteries).
USB standard assumes about 5V +/- 0.35V.
When I was in college I was pretty handy with soldering gun (made my own amps, light-music device - that was disco era:-) - and such), but it's been 30-odd years ago. I remember the basics (like V / I = R :-), but that's about it.

So my question to you electronics engineers: how do I convert 7.5V DC into 5.0V DC?

I understand the simplest (yet a bit ineffective solution - I'd waste 33% of the valuable power on heating the damn resistor) would be to add a single resistor (and that is assuming the dongle resistance is constant - which I'm not sure of).
I hope there can be a bit more effective/elegant solution...

BTW, I checked - there is no power coming out of 5D2 USB socket

hyachts · May 30, 2009

Art Scott wrote:

does any one know if THIS device will allow your card door to close....the older ones were just a few thousnths too tall with sd card rising above the card holder......
If the card door closes this just might get into the Eye-Fi game .................

It's not 100% evident from the product description, but the line "can be fully inserted" to me conflicts with the rest of the line "into any device that takes CompactFlash cards". I don't think you can have it both ways - at least not last time I looked into it at any length. You can either have a CF type II adapter which is thicker, but in which the SD card can be fully inserted, OR you can have a type I adapter where the SD card sticks out one side by some distance. Even on Delkin's website they're not very clear about which is the case: http://www.delkin.com/products/adapters/sd-to-cf/sd-to-cf.html

FWIW, I've had great success with my Eye-Fi card in a type II CF adapter I bought from photojojo in my Canon XTi. I took the metal panels off both sides of the card to reclaim some of the lost signal (with both panels in place it had pretty bad range) but otherwise have had no problems. I don't know if photojojo still sells them, but a company called Syncrotech offers one they claim is "eyefi compatible".

Nikolai · May 30, 2009

hyachts wrote:

It's not 100% evident from the product description, but the line "can be fully inserted" to me conflicts with the rest of the line "into any device that takes CompactFlash cards". I don't think you can have it both ways - at least not last time I looked into it at any length. You can either have a CF type II adapter which is thicker, but in which the SD card can be fully inserted, OR you can have a type I adapter where the SD card sticks out one side by some distance. Even on Delkin's website they're not very clear about which is the case: http://www.delkin.com/products/adapters/sd-to-cf/sd-to-cf.html

FWIW, I've had great success with my Eye-Fi card in a type II CF adapter I bought from photojojo in my Canon XTi. I took the metal panels off both sides of the card to reclaim some of the lost signal (with both panels in place it had pretty bad range) but otherwise have had no problems. I don't know if photojojo still sells them, but a company called Syncrotech offers one they claim is "eyefi compatible".

My current issues with the Eye-Fi ideas (I don't have it so it's my speculations based on what I read on the internets):

requires WAP
no support for raw files
dead slow (despite no support for raw files - would probably be a total slug with them)

I could probably go around 1 and 2, but 3 seems like a total mood killer...

hgernhardtjr · May 30, 2009

Well, I tried the DigiPower dodad and it was a no go, so I fell back on a very simple solution that would also help you, Nikolai — the LM 7805 +5volt regulator available at your local Radio Shack for a buck fifty-nine.

I've used it in the past, and while it is not a power conservative device, you can put anything from 6 vdc up to 35 vdc into it and get regulated 5 vdc. Far, far better than a resistor. So you can easily use it with the 7.5 vdc source in the grip. I just used a handy 6v AAA holder I had, and wired up the 7805, and it the camera dongle works just fine. Not elegant, wastes a bit of power, but works quick and dirty.

Wiring is easy and is shown on the back of the packaging. The photo which I hope I attached correctly shows the input as going to the battery PLUS, the output going to the plus 5vdc to supply the device, and the center being the common ground.

I might repackage a bit, but still feel the Energi2Go is the cleanest way for my needs as I do not want to monkey with the grip. Oh, and thanks for measuring the voltage on the camera's USB port. Like you, I built many an electronic device in the 60s and 70s, but only occasionally do much any more ... and I didn't have any needle probes for my VOM and could not find alligator clips to use real needles attached to the probes ... I gotta get my electronic junk back together again.

Nikolai · May 30, 2009

hgernhardtjr wrote:

Well, I tried the DigiPower dodad and it was a no go, so I fell back on a very simple solution that would also help you, Nikolai — the LM 7805 +5volt regulator available at your local Radio Shack for a buck fifty-nine.

I've used it in the past, and while it is not a power conservative device, you can put anything from 6 vdc up to 35 vdc into it and get regulated 5 vdc. Far, far better than a resistor. So you can easily use it with the 7.5 vdc source in the grip. I just used a handy 6v AAA holder I had, and wired up the 7805, and it the camera dongle works just fine. Not elegant, wastes a bit of power, but works quick and dirty.

Wiring is easy and is shown on the back of the packaging. The photo which I hope I attached correctly shows the input as going to the battery PLUS, the output going to the plus 5vdc to supply the device, and the center being the common ground.

I might repackage a bit, but still feel the Energi2Go is the cleanest way for my needs as I do not want to monkey with the grip. Oh, and thanks for measuring the voltage on the camera's USB port. Like you, I built many an electronic device in the 60s and 70s, but only occasionally do much any more ... and I didn't have any needle probes for my VOM and could not find alligator clips to use real needles attached to the probes ... I gotta get my electronic junk back together again.

Henry, THANKS!

That 7805 gizmo looks like a total winner! I would need a B-male to A-female USB cable to connect the dongle in any case, hooking a couple of wires and that device into it should be no problem.

Man, if it works.... What a moneysaver...

hgernhardtjr · May 30, 2009

Nikolai, you asked for a picture ... I've just been rubber-banding the unit and battery to an old-style straight flash bar attached under the camera. But as the photo shows, I will soon be mounting the flash foot to the base so I can easily mount it to a flash bar or flash shoe. There is PLENTY of space inside.

For now, I'll just rubber band the battery to the cradle but I may order an Energi2Go. Or if someone comes up with a more professional, and SMALL idea, I may go that route. I'm kinda adverse to using project boxes that look hokey.

Oh, that little "flashlight" is the DigiPower dodad that doesn't supply truly regulated power. It dropped from 5v to 3.5 under load. But it makes a good little flashlight!

Nikolai · May 30, 2009

hgernhardtjr wrote:

Oh, and thanks for measuring the voltage on the camera's USB port. Like you, I built many an electronic device in the 60s and 70s, but only occasionally do much any more ... and I didn't have any needle probes for my VOM and could not find alligator clips to use real needles attached to the probes ... I gotta get my electronic junk back together again.

Easy way it so connect A-to-B cable to the camera and measure the voltage on the broad (A) end. No need for needles...:-)

I'll see how things go. External power source definitely looks simple, I just hate to have extra stuff I need to worry about while I have perfectly legitimate source of eletricity right there...

Nikolai · May 30, 2009

hgernhardtjr wrote:

Nikolai, you asked for a picture ... I've just been rubber-banding the unit and battery to an old-style straight flash bar attached under the camera. But as the photo shows, I will soon be mounting the flash foot to the base so I can easily mount it to a flash bar or flash shoe. There is PLENTY of space inside.

For now, I'll just rubber band the battery to the cradle but I may order an Energi2Go. Or if someone comes up with a more professional, and SMALL idea, I may go that route. I'm kinda adverse to using project boxes that look hokey.

Oh, that little "flashlight" is the DigiPower dodad that doesn't supply truly regulated power. It dropped from 5v to 3.5 under load. But it makes a good little flashlight!

Henry, thank you very much for sharing! Good to know!

WFT anybody?

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