Someone told me I blew out his flash?

Kilo · March 28, 2009

Is it possible for my Canon, using its built-in flash, could blow out the bulb of a shoe-mount flash, such as a Nikon SB800 or a Canon 580EX, that another person was using on their camera while they were taking pictures, whether we flashed at the same time or took turns?

I wouldn't know, nor would I think it could anyway,`cos when I had my Nikon SLR an SB600, and my friend had his Nikon SLR with its built-in flash, we took pictures at the same time and took turns, and it never blew out my bulb.

I feel bad if I did blow out his $400 SB800, but he should have come up to me and explained what exactly would've happened instead of sending someone else to me who only said: "Hey... while he's taking pictures, wait until he's not taking any himself... then you can have your turn."

So that's exactly what I did... I waited my turn, but still he said I blew out his bulb. I'm not 100% new to photography, but I never heard such a thing. Plus, when I see events in the area or on TV, many have SLRs and with shoe-mount flashes, you'll see several flashes fire at the very same time. Also, there were others there shooting.

If I really did mess up his shoe-mount flash... I am sorry; and whenever I get a better job than what I have now, I'll immediately buy him a new one.

pathfinder · March 28, 2009

Kilo wrote:

Is it possible for my Canon, using its built-in flash, could blow out the bulb of a shoe-mount flash, such as a Nikon SB800 or a Canon 580EX, that another person was using on their camera while they were taking pictures, whether we flashed at the same time or took turns?

No, you did not blow out his flash with your pop up flash

If both flashes fire simultaneously, you might have helped overexpose the image he shot, but should not harm his flash.

Toshido · March 28, 2009

I am willing to guess by "blow out" he means you helped to overexpose his picture. As in blown out highlights.

To think a flash would blow up another flashes bulb is, imo, ludicrous. Just imagine the damage you would do if you use a flash in bright sunlight to help fill in shadows!

Kilo · March 28, 2009

pathfinder wrote:

No, you did not blow out his flash with your pop up flash

If both flashes fire simultaneously, you might have helped overexpose the image he shot, but should not harm his flash.

Exactly. I've always known that it's best not to shoot when others shoot, for it would mess up the exposure of the shots they took. The man whose flash bulb is blown came up to me later on and said that my Canon sent out frequencies to the trigger in his SB800 or 430EX, (depending on which camera he had) and that it totally blew out its bulb, and that I cost him $400.

Personally, I've never heard such a thing. Many times, I've seen people at special events, some with P&Ss, and some with SLRs and with their shoe-mount flashes on their cameras, and all the SLR users taking shots at the same time and taking turns, yet no one had lost a bulb from it.

Someone at a local camera store has already told me that his just stopped working for another kind'a reason, and he just wanted someone to blame it on. Then a neighbor said that the photographer wanted to be "the man", that he felt intimidated, thinking I was gonna steal the show. No, I was not gonna do that, nor am I even good at photography. He said he's a professional, so he would have been "the man" and owned the show... not I.

Oh well, all I can do at this point is...

and

Kilo · March 28, 2009

Toshido wrote:

I am willing to guess by "blow out" he means you helped to overexpose his picture. As in blown out highlights.

To think a flash would blow up another flashes bulb is, imo, ludicrous. Just imagine the damage you would do if you use a flash in bright sunlight to help fill in shadows!

No, he did say the flash. He said the bulb in it was blown from me being there taking pictures and something about frequencies and triggers. If it were due to flashes over-exposing his shots, then why didn't he tell the dozen others with their P&Ss and the other person who had a smaller SLR camera in the back on my far right to stop shooting, that it would mess up his pictures?

Toshido · March 28, 2009

Wow, I actually find that kinda funny, sorry Kilo.

So did he explain to yo what kinds of freqeuncies your pop up flash sends? Other then visible light anyway? Maybe he was confused with Nikon and those being able to control flashes wirelessly?

ziggy53 · March 28, 2009

If they were using a flash which could trigger from an optical flash pulse then it is remotely possible that another user's flashes could stress the slaved flash, especially if they used an external battery designed for extremely fast recycle times.

If you were previously warned not to flash and if you continued to flash then you might be somewhat culpable and liable. If you were not previously warned and if you stopped when requested and only shot later, there is no way you could be held liable.

If their flash was indeed mounted on their camera it is highly unlikely that they would be using an optical slave and there should be no possible interaction between your flash and theirs.

Toshido · March 28, 2009

Ziggy, i thought about the optical slave feature as well, the SB-600 or whatever has tat doesn't it? I know the 430EX does not

the thing here is though, that Kilo mentioned a bunch of others with P&S cameras and even another SLR shooting their flashes at the same time.

Kilo · March 28, 2009

ziggy53 wrote:

If they were using a flash which could trigger from an optical flash pulse then it is remotely possible that another user's flashes could stress the slaved flash, especially if they used an external battery designed for extremely fast recycle times.

If you were previously warned not to flash and if you continued to flash then you might be somewhat culpable and liable. If you were not previously warned and if you stopped when requested and only shot later, there is no way you could be held liable.

If their flash was indeed mounted on their camera it is highly unlikely that they would be using an optical slave and there should be no possible interaction between your flash and theirs.

No, he personally did not come up to me and say: "Hey, please do not shoot here tonight at any given time while I'm here,`cos it will blow out my shoe-mount flash, and here's the reason why... (then the explanation)." Note, I don't know what camera brand he had, (Canon or Nikon), therefore that's why I say SB or EX, and why I keep calling it a shoe-mount flash... lol

What he did do was send a man over to me and that man said: "Don't take pictures while he's here until he's not taking any for a moment, then you can take your turn to shoot. If you do shoot when he does, it will mess up his shots." He did not say "blow out the photographer's flash".

So when he went out in the hall, I either shot or I didnt. When he was not prepared to shoot, I either shot or I didn't.

So since he did have an SB or an EX mounted on his camera, and since all I saw was just that and the camera body and maybe a battery grip... then as you say, it was highly unlikely that he was using an optical slave. Then again, the bulb to my SB600 never blew out being around other SLR users, whether they had a Nikon or a Canon, with or without shoe-mount flashes, nor did theirs blow `cos of my camera either.

Well, it beats me as to what's going on. This has become a nightmare, but like I said earlier... if I get a better job, I will give him $400 within a few weeks, even if I were not the culprit.

ziggy53 · March 28, 2009

Kilo,

I am not saying what did happen, only some remote possibilities of what could happen to blow a flash. If those scenarios don't match the circumstances then I have no idea why they would blame you of anything.

If it is the bulb it is not a $400 repair. It would be considerably less.

pathfinder · March 28, 2009

This was a pop up flash on a Canon camera - a pop up flash on a Canon does not function as a Master. ( I know it can on some Nikon cameras though.)

There is no way it harmed his Nikon flash. If it were possible, I would hold Nikon liable for creating such a delicate device, and we all know Nikon does not build delicate devices.

Think about PJs all shooting a scene together - do they only use one flash at a time?

Kilo · March 28, 2009

pathfinder wrote:

This was a pop up flash on a Canon camera - a pop up flash on a Canon does not function as a Master. ( I know it can on some Nikon cameras though.)

There is no way it harmed his Nikon flash. If it were possible, I would hold Nikon liable for creating such a delicate device, and we all know Nikon does not build delicate devices.

Think about PJs all shooting a scene together - do they only use one flash at a time?

I'm not sure if his was a Nikon or not, but someone there said it was. But whether it was a Canon or a Nikon, I just don't see how my tiny flash harmed his big one,

but as you said... there was no way.

Robinivich · March 29, 2009

Kilo wrote:

I'm not sure if his was a Nikon or not, but someone there said it was. But whether it was a Canon or a Nikon, I just don't see how my tiny flash harmed his big one, but as you said... there was no way.

Assuming you're using the 30D in your signature, with pop-up flash, there is no wireless, infrared, or visible light master function your camera could possibly output that would have triggered his flash, nevermind fired it so many times that it burnt out his bulb, unless he was using an old-school slave flash with a visible light trigger. If another photographer was using Nikon's wireless system on the same frequency and within radio range, then that could also be the culprit, but only I think if he had an off-camera flash.

If the other photographer wanted to use a visible light trigger on an off camera flash at an event where there are at least a dozen cameras firing away with their own flashes, then he's the one to blame for not predicting the inevitable result (not to mention that you are also probably not the sole person responsible, just the guy with the next-most-expensive camera). Personally, I would think he's probably just choked up about busting a flash bulb (which he may have simply done to himself), and wants to displace the blame (and probably the bill) onto someone else.

Finally, as Ziggy pointed out, I sincerely doubt this is going to actually cost him $400. Particularly if it was an optical trigger that was to blame, since I don't think any of the more recent canon or nikon flashes even have this ability, and it would have to be an older and cheaper flash.

I only have what you've posted to go by, but this is what sounds logical to me.

Scott_Quier · March 29, 2009

Kilo wrote:

Is it possible for my Canon, using its built-in flash, could blow out the bulb of a shoe-mount flash, such as a Nikon SB800 or a Canon 580EX, that another person was using on their camera while they were taking pictures, whether we flashed at the same time or took turns?

Regardless of what the photographer may or may not have said to you and regardless of what warnings you may have received, there is no way an on-board flash could damage a shoe mount flash! They could be face to face, inches apart and both firing at the exact same time and there would be no damage.

Now, if you were to fire your flash at the same time the photog did, the worst that could happen is that the photog's photo would be lighted in ways he/she didn't anticipate.

If the photog's flash is damaged, the fault lies elsewhere other than you. If the photog blew out the bulb of his flash that can be caused by age (measued in the number of times the flash had been fired) or he/she could have been fireing it in a rapid series of exposures - that can over-heat the device.

If he/she has it slaved to some sort of optical trigger - the blame is still on him for not anticipating the shooting environment - optical triggers are triggered by ANY flash ... P&S, other shoe-mounts, strobes, on-board flashes, etc. There is no way a photographer can reasonably expect to take over a situation to the extent that all other cameras will be set aside - not going to happen regardless of whatever contract the photographer may or may not have signed with a client.

Bottom line - forget about it and get some sleep. You are, in no manner, culpable in this hardware failure.

GREAPER · March 29, 2009

I gotta chime in here as well. I have an SB-800 and there is no way that your flash damaged his. Before you fork over a dime, I would seek proof, like a written diagnosis from his flash manufacturer.

angevin1 · March 29, 2009

Kilo wrote:

Is it possible for my Canon, using its built-in flash, could blow out the bulb of a shoe-mount flash, such as a Nikon SB800 or a Canon 580EX, that another person was using on their camera while they were taking pictures, whether we flashed at the same time or took turns?

N O ! And if somehow it were possible and you were making my SB8/600 go off while mounted on my camera, then I'd just turn around, grab a piece of tape and cover the darned sensor.

This did happen to me when my son was shooting his D70 and I had an SB600 off camera controlled by Commander mode with my SB800 (on camera)...He kept flashing my Sb600 and skewing the recycle time and such...so I told him to take his camera off Commander mode: prob solved!

tom

Kilo · March 29, 2009

Well this whole situation is just crazy. Whether I was the culprit or not, he should have come to me before the event ever began and explained to me the way his camera was set up and everything, then I would have packed up my camera and left—no problem.

But instead, he tells someone else to walk over to where I was at to relay the message to me, and that person he sent had no clue at all what he was talking about, as if whatever the professional photographer told him to tell me was just all jibberish to him. Like at the Tower of Babel... no one knew what the other was saying at all. Nothing but jibber-jabber babeling.

One should never talk high-tech stuff to anyone who has no idea what the one is saying, and that's what happened... he told a man who had no clue what he said, so he relayed the message to me as best as he could; therefore, when I saw everyone else shooting, then I started shooting.

What an evening that was... me, a novice photographer running into a professional photographer. Go figure.

angevin1 · March 29, 2009

Kilo wrote:

Well this whole situation is just crazy. Whether I was the culprit or not, he should have come to me before the event ever began and explained to me the way his camera was set up and everything, then I would have packed up my camera and left—no problem.

But instead, he tells someone else to walk over to where I was at to relay the message to me, and that person he sent had no clue at all what he was talking about, as if whatever the professional photographer told him to tell me was just all jibberish to him. Like at the Tower of Babel... no one knew what the other was saying at all. Nothing but jibber-jabber babeling.

One should never talk high-tech stuff to anyone who has no idea what the one is saying, and that's what happened... he told a man who had no clue what he said, so he relayed the message to me as best as he could; therefore, when I saw everyone else shooting, then I started shooting.

What an evening that was... me, a novice photographer running into a professional photographer. Go figure.

Curiosity has me now...what kind of event was this??

Tim Kamppinen · March 29, 2009

They guy's either a complete idiot or trying to deceive you. Either way, whatever you do, don't give him a cent of your money if that's what he wants.

Kilo · March 29, 2009

angevin1 wrote:

Curiosity has me now...what kind of event was this??

A wedding at my church.

Kilo · March 29, 2009

Tim Kamppinen wrote:

They guy's either a complete idiot or trying to deceive you. Either way, whatever you do, don't give him a cent of your money if that's what he wants.

Well he never said a word about it. He just said: "I'm guessing that you're new at photography, and because you did not listen to the man who I sent to tell you not to take any pictures and why not to, your camera's flash blew mine out, and you cost me $400."

He never said anything about me having to pay him. He just packed his gear and left for the reception downtown, which I didn't go to `cos I figured he'd be there.

My pastor jokingly said: "Whatever is in your camera that blew out his flash... please, when I die, do not take any pictures of me, because it might bring me back to life, and I want my next conscious awareness to be me seeing myself in Heaven with Jesus. I do not want to find myself here on Earth."

TexPhotog · March 29, 2009

If you do decide to pay for his flash...

I think your flash broke my flash...

Can I get one two please??? A nice SB900 would be nice... but I'd settle for another SB600

Kilo · March 29, 2009

TexPhotog wrote:

If you do decide to pay for his flash...

I think your flash broke my flash...

Can I get one two please??? A nice SB900 would be nice... but I'd settle for another SB600

Good one! You almost made me believe that my 30D's pop-up flash is that menacing to other cameras.

TexPhotog · March 29, 2009

Kilo wrote:

Good one! You almost made me believe that my 30D's pop-up flash is that menacing to other cameras.

It is... see!!!

Kilo · March 29, 2009

TexPhotog wrote:

It is... see!!!

Ekaj · March 29, 2009

Kilo wrote:

A wedding at my church.

If he was paid to shoot the wedding, you were probably annoying him so he just wanted you to not use your flash.

I could only imagine how annoying it would be to shoot a wedding and have random flashes going off while the photographer who needs to get the shot to be paid is trying to shoot.

Kilo · March 29, 2009

Ekaj wrote:

If he was paid to shoot the wedding, you were probably annoying him so he just wanted you to not use your flash.

I could only imagine how annoying it would be to shoot a wedding and have random flashes going off while the photographer who needs to get the shot to be paid is trying to shoot.

True, and I understand, but there were nearly 20 others firing off their cameras. He had no problem with them... and they were firing when he fired and when he was just about to, which I guess he had to wait for them to finish so he could shoot next.

Kilo · March 29, 2009

Ekaj wrote:

If he was paid to shoot the wedding, you were probably annoying him so he just wanted you to not use your flash.

I could only imagine how annoying it would be to shoot a wedding and have random flashes going off while the photographer who needs to get the shot to be paid is trying to shoot.

Plus, I had mine set on M so I could shoot with no flash and set the shutter speed down to 0''6 just so I could get enough light in, (which still wasn't good enough), yet they tell me he was still upset over that.

angevin1 · March 29, 2009

Kilo wrote:

Plus, I had mine set on M so I could shoot with no flash and set the shutter speed down to 0''6 just so I could get enough light in, (which still wasn't good enough), yet they tell me he was still upset over that.

So the question is: Did he not have another flash with him? and did you see him actually stop shooting with his flash,etc?

I shot several weddings last year, my first year, and there were lots of "flashers" there. In the two that were inside for the formal shots, I just held everyone in place AFTER I had gotten my shots and let the others go to town. if someone got antsy with their camera while I was still shooting and moving, I just said "okay, hold up"...and all seemed to work, quite well, no one got offended and everyone that wanted to shoot did so after I was done with a given pose.

Weddings are such a joyous occasion, and everybody has a camera, with a right to use it...easy to deal with as long as you treat folks with respect and added humor!

Sounds like Mr. Pro was just looking for a scapegoat...which is why I ask about his failure in my question.

tom

ps: I had three SB's off camera too, and they never fired for anyone elses camera.

Kilo · March 30, 2009

angevin1 wrote:

So the question is: Did he not have another flash with him? and did you see him actually stop shooting with his flash,etc?

I shot several weddings last year, my first year, and there were lots of "flashers" there. In the two that were inside for the formal shots, I just held everyone in place AFTER I had gotten my shots and let the others go to town. if someone got antsy with their camera while I was still shooting and moving, I just said "okay, hold up"...and all seemed to work, quite well, no one got offended and everyone that wanted to shoot did so after I was done with a given pose.

Weddings are such a joyous occasion, and everybody has a camera, with a right to use it...easy to deal with as long as you treat folks with respect and added humor!

Sounds like Mr. Pro was just looking for a scapegoat...which is why I ask about his failure in my question.

tom

ps: I had three SB's off camera too, and they never fired for anyone elses camera.

I don't know if he had another flash with him, but I'm thinking he didn't; and yes, I saw him stop using his flash. He took it off, so I guess that's when it supposedly blew out. But like I've mentioned somewhere in here, I shot when he didn't shoot,`cos he would walk into the lobby to walk around to the other sides of the building.

And there were times when he was just standing here and standing there not shooting,`cos he was waiting for the bride, for the groom, for the children, etc, to walk in or do something, and for the bride & groom to kiss, etc, and so when he wasn't shooting, then I went ahead and shot.

Here's another thing... I only took about seven flash shots in that entire evening while he was inside the sanctuary or chapel or whatever you call it, and around 300 flash shots went off from other people's cameras. The rest of mine were non-flash shots `cos it was set on M.

Seems to me that if I took one flash shot after another, that may have caused his flash to blow out, (if it were even remotely possible of course), but I took those seven flash shots several minutes apart and of course when he wasn't shooting.

But I'm not gonna worry about it since all or most of you say there is no way this kind'a incident could ever happen. One day, I will have at least the 430EX, (model I... model II would be better), and I am not gonna worry at all about someone's camera blowing mine out.:D

TexPhotog · March 30, 2009

I still say you owe me a new flash...

But in all seriousness... I think what someone said earlier could be what happened and you looked "semi-pro" enough to where he could blame someone for his mistake...

I'll guesstimate that the other people that were shooting were using P&S cameras... you have a dSLR...

I'm thinking he overheated his flash, busted it and wants to blame you...

Someone told me I blew out his flash?

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