2nd Shooter Pay?

Candid Arts · March 15, 2009

I'm curious as to what the "average" is for a second shooter pay? I've shot three weddings so far, and have a couple on my own this spring/fall, but might be assisting with the same lady (company) I shot my three previous weddings with.

I'd like to hear from the main photographers as to what they pay their second shooters, as well as from the second shooters themselves as to what they've been paid.

The first three weddings I've shot I got paid $100 for the entire wedding, ranging from 6 to one a ten hour wedding (prep, ceremony, and reception). That included her having the rights to all my photos, and she gave me permission to use them on my site for my portfolio, with the terms that I can't sell them, make money from them, and have to advertise her company where ever the photos are displayed.

Thanks for the help from anyone...

Rikki · March 16, 2009

Depending on your experience level and equipment second shooters usually make anywhere between $15-25. The way I've done it is simple:

- you bring your own equipment and it needs to match mine in a way. I shoot with Canon gear so I expect my second shooter to use Canons as well

- Our styles must be similar

- Depending on the agreement, as a second shooter, you retain copyrights for your images but I have rights to distribute them. You can use them for your portfolio, etc. If the client ends up liking your shots, you get a cut of he prints prices which I usually hold to about 25%.

- The second shooter shoots and gives me the flash cards for my review and I end up editing them.

Candid Arts wrote:

I'm curious as to what the "average" is for a second shooter pay? I've shot three weddings so far, and have a couple on my own this spring/fall, but might be assisting with the same lady (company) I shot my three previous weddings with.

I'd like to hear from the main photographers as to what they pay their second shooters, as well as from the second shooters themselves as to what they've been paid.

The first three weddings I've shot I got paid $100 for the entire wedding, ranging from 6 to one a ten hour wedding (prep, ceremony, and reception). That included her having the rights to all my photos, and she gave me permission to use them on my site for my portfolio, with the terms that I can't sell them, make money from them, and have to advertise her company where ever the photos are displayed.

Thanks for the help from anyone...

Candid Arts · March 16, 2009

Excellent information. Thank you.

So you're saying you only pay a second shooter $15-25 + a cut of any photos of the second shooters that sell? That doesn't seem worth while for the second shooter at all (aside from the getting experience thing)

dank-photo · March 16, 2009

Candid Arts wrote:

Excellent information. Thank you.

So you're saying you only pay a second shooter $15-25 + a cut of any photos of the second shooters that sell? That doesn't seem worth while for the second shooter at all (aside from the getting experience thing)

I'm hoping they meant $15-25/hr...

I'm a commercial photo. asst by day, but have been trying to get more wedding experience before I really market myself that way. I have shot 3 as the primary photographer, and 1 as a 2nd shooter...and I have 2, possibly 3 coming up this year as the primary.

All I can tell you is to charge what you think you are worth, and what you think would be fair, based on what they're charging for a wedding...If they're charging $3500+ for their package, and they only want to pay you $100, turn the job down. Of course all markets are different, but for 2nd shooting a whole day, I would expect $200-$250 at least. Just my 2 cents...

Blurmore · March 16, 2009

When I started as an assistant I made 150 dollars a job, now when I work as a second I make between 375-600 dollars, I will under no circumstances photograph anything for less than 300 dollars if it is over 3 hours. Bottom line...if you are hiring a noob to give them experience don't overpay them, if you are hiring someone who will be integral to the day's shoot avoid people who will work for less than what you would work for.

Candid Arts · March 16, 2009

dank-photo wrote:

I'm hoping they meant $15-25/hr...

me too...

I'm a commercial photo. asst by day, but have been trying to get more wedding experience before I really market myself that way. I have shot 3 as the primary photographer, and 1 as a 2nd shooter...and I have 2, possibly 3 coming up this year as the primary.

All I can tell you is to charge what you think you are worth, and what you think would be fair, based on what they're charging for a wedding...If they're charging $3500+ for their package, and they only want to pay you $100, turn the job down. Of course all markets are different, but for 2nd shooting a whole day, I would expect $200-$250 at least. Just my 2 cents...

Should I be asking what the main photographer is charging for that specific wedding and ask to get paid accordingly?

The situation I'm in is the lady(and husband) that I shoot for has like 5 other people that second shoot for them (son, 2 or 3 son's friends) and me. I was the last one to get on with them. So basically I'm up when the other ones aren't available. I don't know what she pays the other 2nd photographers, but I suppose I could ask as one of them is a close friend of mine (which is how I got the gig). But as of now, I've been paid $100 for each wedding. Should I ask how much the main photographer is charging the couple before each shoot and ask for more money accordingly? Having only 3 weddings under my belt, should I just be happy with getting experience and $100?

dank-photo · March 16, 2009

Candid Arts wrote:

me too...

Should I be asking what the main photographer is charging for that specific wedding and ask to get paid accordingly?

The situation I'm in is the lady(and husband) that I shoot for has like 5 other people that second shoot for them (son, 2 or 3 son's friends) and me. I was the last one to get on with them. So basically I'm up when the other ones aren't available. I don't know what she pays the other 2nd photographers, but I suppose I could ask as one of them is a close friend of mine (which is how I got the gig). But as of now, I've been paid $100 for each wedding. Should I ask how much the main photographer is charging the couple before each shoot and ask for more money accordingly? Having only 3 weddings under my belt, should I just be happy with getting experience and $100?

I would do some research by yourself, and look up what the photographer is charging online, if it's posted. Otherwise, it may be wrong to ask them directly. You could try asking your friend what they get paid (maybe they pay more the longer you work with them), but no guarantees there.

It depends somewhat on how confident you are in your own work. I generally have a set rate, that I can accommodate to a primary's needs if I really need the work. The range in pricing and quality varies greatly in the Wisconsin area. I've seen everything from $300-$6500 for a full day of photography. Generally, as I am looking for a wedding photographer for myself now, experience starts to come in at around $1500/day. You really do get what you pay for. I would start with setting a rate, and trying to stick to that...market yourself as an assistant shooter to as many wedding photogs in the area as you can. Depending on your confidence, and on how comfortable and experienced you feel, and the results you achieve, set a rate accordingly. Frankly, $100 for a full day sounds way too low.

Candid Arts · March 16, 2009

dank-photo wrote:

I would do some research by yourself, and look up what the photographer is charging online, if it's posted. Otherwise, it may be wrong to ask them directly. You could try asking your friend what they get paid (maybe they pay more the longer you work with them), but no guarantees there.

It depends somewhat on how confident you are in your own work. I generally have a set rate, that I can accommodate to a primary's needs if I really need the work. The range in pricing and quality varies greatly in the Wisconsin area. I've seen everything from $300-$6500 for a full day of photography. Generally, as I am looking for a wedding photographer for myself now, experience starts to come in at around $1500/day. You really do get what you pay for. I would start with setting a rate, and trying to stick to that...market yourself as an assistant shooter to as many wedding photogs in the area as you can. Depending on your confidence, and on how comfortable and experienced you feel, and the results you achieve, set a rate accordingly. Frankly, $100 for a full day sounds way too low.

Thank you very much. I'm not very confident in my own work, but I've been told that it's really good for my experience level. Well I'll ask my friend how much the primary is paying him. I'd hate to make any demands with her though as she's totally just doing me a favor. I don't want to ask for more money when I'm not sure of my skills, how much she is making from the wedding, etc... But yes, $100 seems pretty low especially for like 8-10 hours of shooting and with no cut on photos of mine that sell to the B&G.

Thank you for your information though I really appreciate it. I do need to start calling some local photographers but the competition here in Portland is ridiculous.

So when I call someone to get my name on their list of second shooters, do I just start telling them how much I charge? Should I do something like $25/hr with a $200 minimum? *note - On my website for my services, I list my services at $80/hr for me as the primary*

Swartzy · March 16, 2009

Blurmore wrote:

When I started as an assistant I made 150 dollars a job, now when I work as a second I make between 375-600 dollars, I will under no circumstances photograph anything for less than 300 dollars if it is over 3 hours. Bottom line...if you are hiring a noob to give them experience don't overpay them, if you are hiring someone who will be integral to the day's shoot avoid people who will work for less than what you would work for.

Agreed

dank-photo · March 16, 2009

Candid Arts wrote:

So when I call someone to get my name on their list of second shooters, do I just start telling them how much I charge? Should I do something like $25/hr with a $200 minimum? *note - On my website for my services, I list my services at $80/hr for me as the primary*

I would charge a day rate...how much depends on what you fell comfortable with, but it could be anything from 4-12 hrs...same price. If they need me for less than 4 hours (which has never been the case), I would charge AT LEAST $25-$30/hr depending on the work. When assisting commercially, I break it into 1/2 day/full-day rates.

Candid Arts · March 16, 2009

dank-photo wrote:

I would charge a day rate...how much depends on what you fell comfortable with, but it could be anything from 4-12 hrs...same price. If they need me for less than 4 hours (which has never been the case), I would charge AT LEAST $25-$30/hr depending on the work. When assisting commercially, I break it into 1/2 day/full-day rates.

Gotchya. Makes sense. I guess I just gotta figure out what I'm worth and ask for it... Hmmm...

Thanks for all the info!

FedererPhoto · March 16, 2009

I think, like some of the other posters have said, it's really going to depend on what your roll is and/or what you hope to get out of it.

If you don't 'need' the experience, are providing your own gear, doing all the post processing, etc... you can charge what you think the day is worth to you (ie: quite a bit).

If you are using their gear, need the experience, not doing any of the post, etc... hey, be happy with 100 bucks.

There is obviously a large and varied spectrum of options in there.

Personally, I pay my shooters 7.5% of the package - but I'm doing all the post and providing their gear. They are experienced photographers (concert, etc) that simply don't have an interest in doing weddings 'on their own' and are totally happy spending a day or two a month earning a few hundred bucks. If they wanted to branch into weddings themselves, I'd let them use the images in their portfolios.
I'm flexible though - if someone who I felt was good came up to me and was like "Hey, I'd love to second shoot with you, I've got all my own gear and will do preliminary post for you" I'd be willing to give more (or work out some other payment form)

Personally, on the other end, I try to second shoot with people a few times a year, simply to see how others work. In those circumstances, I've generally done a day for ~150 bucks or so - it's not really about the money. If I had to do post, I'd probably 'charge' more (or simply not do it).

Candid Arts · March 16, 2009

FedererPhoto wrote:

I think, like some of the other posters have said, it's really going to depend on what your roll is and/or what you hope to get out of it.

If you don't 'need' the experience, are providing your own gear, doing all the post processing, etc... you can charge what you think the day is worth to you (ie: quite a bit).

If you are using their gear, need the experience, not doing any of the post, etc... hey, be happy with 100 bucks.

There is obviously a large and varied spectrum of options in there.

Personally, I pay my shooters 7.5% of the package - but I'm doing all the post and providing their gear. They are experienced photographers (concert, etc) that simply don't have an interest in doing weddings 'on their own' and are totally happy spending a day or two a month earning a few hundred bucks. If they wanted to branch into weddings themselves, I'd let them use the images in their portfolios.
I'm flexible though - if someone who I felt was good came up to me and was like "Hey, I'd love to second shoot with you, I've got all my own gear and will do preliminary post for you" I'd be willing to give more (or work out some other payment form)

Personally, on the other end, I try to second shoot with people a few times a year, simply to see how others work. In those circumstances, I've generally done a day for ~150 bucks or so - it's not really about the money. If I had to do post, I'd probably 'charge' more (or simply not do it).

Here is how it's been on the three weddings I've shot with her so far:

I have all my own equip (however once I had to use her camera because I ran out of memory and her stuff was all Nikon formatted where as I have Canon, and I heard that using a card on another brand of camera messes the card up, so we just played it safe and I used her camera). Other than that one time though, I have all my own equipment. Really the only couple things I don't do (or haven't done) is all the pre-planning stuff, directing for posing (as I'm not yet comfortable doing that), and PP. Basically I go with my own equipment, shoot the wedding in full, and she takes the memory cards with the photos, does all the PP herself and gives me the memory cards back. I do need/want the experience, have my own equip, and the only PP I do is for my own portfolio. Which is gonna be different than what the B&G see as they don't get informed about my site.

So...knowing all that, and I've only done three weddings (your more than welcome to check out my weddings that I have shot here if you'd like), obvioiusly not knowing what the primary is charging, what would YOU think is a fair price? If you don't feel comfortable answering, that's fine. I understand. I'm just completely shooting in the dark here on my "worth".

ziggy53 · March 16, 2009

I believe that we should be talking about 3 different classes of photographers:

Assistant
2nd shooter
Contract photographer

An assistant will generally have no (or little) experience and little or no equipment. They are assisting the photographer and pretty much do whatever is required according to the principal photographer and under the principal's tutelage.

A 2nd shooter will have their own equipment and it will be professional level. They will have some experience but perhaps not as much as the principal. They will be directed by the principal but will not need too many instructions or guidance to complete the tasks of the event. They may or may not have a contract but they will generally submit any images back to the principal for inclusion in the photo package. If they process their own work they will get more in pay. Their work may or may not be indicated as theirs but more likely their work will be represented by the principal's studio for the purpose of the client. Payment details may vary but often it is a flat rate for the event.

A contract photographer will be very experienced with probably the same or similar experience level as the principal. This is a true, but limited, partnership for the duration of the event and fulfillment. At this level duties are fairly equal and the reason for 2 (or more) photographers is due to the size or scale of the event or because of other demands/needs of the client. In this case there should be a full contract between the photographers and the contracting body (which may be one of the photographers or a service.) At this level everyone gets a piece of the pie according to their contribution and almost any combination of service and competence may be required of the parties involved but it will be indicated in the contract. It is likely at this level that each photographer will be able to represent their own work, but it may be funneled through an agency for fulfillment.

You might find these different business models represented by different names and subject to individual needs and capabilities but you'll also find different price and pay scales depending on the local economies and local traditions and personal relationships.

Always negotiate instead of "demand", ... unless you are in a position to make demands.

Candid Arts · March 16, 2009

ziggy53 wrote:

I believe that we should be talking about 3 different classes of photographers:

Assistant
2nd shooter
Contract photographer

An assistant will generally have no (or little) experience and little or no equipment. They are assisting the photographer and pretty much do whatever is required according to the principal photographer and under the principal's tutelage.

A 2nd shooter will have their own equipment and it will be professional level. They will have some experience but perhaps not as much as the principal. They will be directed by the principal but will not need too many instructions or guidance to complete the tasks of the event. They may or may not have a contract but they will generally submit any images back to the principal for inclusion in the photo package. If they process their own work they will get more in pay. Their work may or may not be indicated as theirs but more likely their work will be represented by the principal's studio for the purpose of the client. Payment details may vary but often it is a flat rate for the event.

A contract photographer will be very experienced with probably the same or similar experience level as the principal. This is a true, but limited, partnership for the duration of the event and fulfillment. At this level duties are fairly equal and the reason for 2 (or more) photographers is due to the size or scale of the event or because of other demands/needs of the client. In this case there should be a full contract between the photographers and the contracting body (which may be one of the photographers or a service.) At this level everyone gets a piece of the pie according to their contribution and almost any combination of service and competence may be required of the parties involved but it will be indicated in the contract. It is likely at this level that each photographer will be able to represent their own work, but it may be funneled through an agency for fulfillment.

You might find these different business models represented by different names and subject to individual needs and capabilities but you'll also find different price and pay scales depending on the local economies and local traditions and personal relationships.

Always negotiate instead of "demand", ... unless you are in a position to make demands.

Excellent info Ziggy...as always.

Well following your descriptions, I would consider myself a 2nd shooter then.

So now clarifying that...Back to my worth...

dunno I dunno...one MIIIILLLLIIOOOOOONNNN DOOLLLLAAAARRRSSSSSS/hour.

Matthew Saville · March 17, 2009

Yeah Ziggy is onto the core of this-

There are friends whose work I highly admire; I'd pay them 10% of my package price to have the honor of their 2nd shooting.

There are also people who I'd CHARGE about 10% of my package price, for them to be allowed to watch and learn!

I COULD go to my assistants and cut my usual $300 assist payment down to $100, but even if they walked away I'm positive that I could find others willing to do the job for $100 at least once or twice. Why? The market is SATURATED with people skilled enough to assist, but not yet experienced enough to take the wheel.

However, I believe in building a positive relationship with my co-workers, friends, etc. Auctioning work off to the lowest bidder is a great way to be disappointed sooner or later. Which is why I don't just pay for work, I REWARD for TRUST.

Candid Arts, I wouldn't play games with trying to figure out how much your 1st shooter is making, or figuring out if the cut they're giving you is "fair". Bottom line- if you feel you're worth more than $100 for the amount of work you do, ask for more. She'll either say "alright, I value your skills AND you've proven to me that you're a reliable person, so I'll pay you more!" ...OR, she'll say "I'm sorry, $100 is all I can afford..." Which means that is the highest value she has given to your position and she is confident that others will be willing to do your job for the same $100...

So, the verdict: $100 is not necessarily normal for that many hours of work, and you could ask for more if you think you're worth it. But also be ready to walk away if you're denied. Create VALUE however, and you'll always be worth more than the next guy... :-D

=Matt=

Snowgirl · March 17, 2009

Candid Arts wrote:

Here is how it's been on the three weddings I've shot with her so far:

Really the only couple things I don't do (or haven't done) is all the pre-planning stuff, directing for posing (as I'm not yet comfortable doing that), and PP. Basically I go with my own equipment, shoot the wedding in full, and she takes the memory cards with the photos, does all the PP herself and gives me the memory cards back. I do need/want the experience, have my own equip, and the only PP I do is for my own portfolio. Which is gonna be different than what the B&G see as they don't get informed about my site.

So...knowing all that, and I've only done three weddings (your more than welcome to check out my weddings that I have shot here if you'd like), obvioiusly not knowing what the primary is charging, what would YOU think is a fair price? If you don't feel comfortable answering, that's fine. I understand. I'm just completely shooting in the dark here on my "worth".

I had a quick look at your portfolio. Did you do your own PP on those photos?

Although you can't sell them, do you not own the copyright to them?

And, if so, why is the Primary's copyright symbol in the watermark? You've acknowledged that studio at the front of the album. Isn't that enough?

On another note - they're good photos. I know what you mean about posing. I'm still learning to "direct" people and truthfully, am not that good at it (yet) but it's coming - and yours will too.

cdonovan · March 17, 2009

Personally, with that kind of compensation, I wouldn't be afraid to ask what direction your relationship is heading. If you stick it out for another year and even though in that year you've gotten more experience they don't plan to pay more. I'd probably look around for someone else to shoot for. Sounds like it's a one way street there. Sure the experience is valuable, but so is your time.

Candid Arts · March 17, 2009

Matthew Saville wrote:

Yeah Ziggy is onto the core of this-

There are friends whose work I highly admire; I'd pay them 10% of my package price to have the honor of their 2nd shooting.

There are also people who I'd CHARGE about 10% of my package price, for them to be allowed to watch and learn!

I COULD go to my assistants and cut my usual $300 assist payment down to $100, but even if they walked away I'm positive that I could find others willing to do the job for $100 at least once or twice. Why? The market is SATURATED with people skilled enough to assist, but not yet experienced enough to take the wheel.

However, I believe in building a positive relationship with my co-workers, friends, etc. Auctioning work off to the lowest bidder is a great way to be disappointed sooner or later. Which is why I don't just pay for work, I REWARD for TRUST.

Candid Arts, I wouldn't play games with trying to figure out how much your 1st shooter is making, or figuring out if the cut they're giving you is "fair". Bottom line- if you feel you're worth more than $100 for the amount of work you do, ask for more. She'll either say "alright, I value your skills AND you've proven to me that you're a reliable person, so I'll pay you more!" ...OR, she'll say "I'm sorry, $100 is all I can afford..." Which means that is the highest value she has given to your position and she is confident that others will be willing to do your job for the same $100...

So, the verdict: $100 is not necessarily normal for that many hours of work, and you could ask for more if you think you're worth it. But also be ready to walk away if you're denied. Create VALUE however, and you'll always be worth more than the next guy... :-D

=Matt=

Wow. Matt. Amazing and helpful info as always. Thank you.

I think what I'm going to do is work the next wedding she has for me, try some new things I've learned and try to be a little more involved in the day. If I'm happy with the results of my photos, and the day goes well, I'm going to talk to her about more money. Also, going to talk to my friend (her other 2nd shooter) as well and see how much he's making. He does good work, but I personally think I've got it better than he...but that's all just opinion (to a certain extent).

Thanks again Matt!

bow

Snowgirl wrote:

I had a quick look at your portfolio. Did you do your own PP on those photos?

Although you can't sell them, do you not own the copyright to them?

And, if so, why is the Primary's copyright symbol in the watermark? You've acknowledged that studio at the front of the album. Isn't that enough?

On another note - they're good photos. I know what you mean about posing. I'm still learning to "direct" people and truthfully, am not that good at it (yet) but it's coming - and yours will too.

I did do my own PP on the photos in my gallery, as stated earlier, they are not what the customer saw. I used these photos and edited them personally for my own portfolio and that is all. The photos taken by me for the wedding are edited solely by the primary, and that is all that the customers have seen.

I suppose that could be enough yeah. I could take their watermark off the photos and just have them acknowledged in the front of the album...Hmmm...

Thank you for your compliment. My problem is I'm SUPER shy in the first place, secondly I just don't have "ideas" on what/how to pose, thirdly my lack of confidence in the ideas I do have is huge, so I'm always freaked out that the people I'm posing are going to be thinking thought like, "what they hell is he doing? This is ridiculous!" etc...

Thanks for all your input and advice!

cdonovan wrote:

Personally, with that kind of compensation, I wouldn't be afraid to ask what direction your relationship is heading. If you stick it out for another year and even though in that year you've gotten more experience they don't plan to pay more. I'd probably look around for someone else to shoot for. Sounds like it's a one way street there. Sure the experience is valuable, but so is your time.

As stated earlier, I'm going to do one more wedding at the price I'm getting paid now, re-evaluate myself, and go from there.

Thanks for your thoughts everyone. Much appreciated.

dank-photo · March 17, 2009

Candid Arts wrote:

My problem is I'm SUPER shy in the first place, secondly I just don't have "ideas" on what/how to pose, thirdly my lack of confidence in the ideas I do have is huge, so I'm always freaked out that the people I'm posing are going to be thinking thought like, "what they hell is he doing? This is ridiculous!" etc...

I'm kinda the same way, so I understand where you are coming from... Don't let your nerves get the best of you; subjects expect to be directed and posed by a pro, so try not to think what they are thinking. I think posing comes more naturally with experience...It's one thing I'm trying to work harder on as well, and am not so comfortable with yet. Instead of focusing your thoughts on their thoughts of you, try focusing them at the task at hand, and how you can produce the best results for the client.

Shima · March 17, 2009

From my experience second shooting (at least if you'll be there the whole day, exceptions are made when we're talking about just shooting a few hours at the reception, or just the ceremony or something)... usually the average person will pay between 250-400 for your day of assisting. Generally I find it depends on what the main shooter is bringing in, if it's a very high end wedding, they're often a lot looser on the purse strings than if it's a budget wedding. The main thing is that you both should be happy with whatever number you agree on. Do they expect you to edit photos before handing them over? Most won't, and therefore the lower end is fine... if they want you to do more work later though, make sure you're compensated for that as well.

PS: I second shoot a lot with one of my friends in particular since we just make a fun team... another pro to second shooting is that sometimes it can grow into more!

Candid Arts · March 17, 2009

dank-photo wrote:

I'm kinda the same way, so I understand where you are coming from... Don't let your nerves get the best of you; subjects expect to be directed and posed by a pro, so try not to think what they are thinking. I think posing comes more naturally with experience...It's one thing I'm trying to work harder on as well, and am not so comfortable with yet. Instead of focusing your thoughts on their thoughts of you, try focusing them at the task at hand, and how you can produce the best results for the client.

That's easier said than done sometimes. But at least I know I'm not the only one. Thanks.

Shima wrote:

From my experience second shooting (at least if you'll be there the whole day, exceptions are made when we're talking about just shooting a few hours at the reception, or just the ceremony or something)... usually the average person will pay between 250-400 for your day of assisting. Generally I find it depends on what the main shooter is bringing in, if it's a very high end wedding, they're often a lot looser on the purse strings than if it's a budget wedding. The main thing is that you both should be happy with whatever number you agree on. Do they expect you to edit photos before handing them over? Most won't, and therefore the lower end is fine... if they want you to do more work later though, make sure you're compensated for that as well.

PS: I second shoot a lot with one of my friends in particular since we just make a fun team... another pro to second shooting is that sometimes it can grow into more!

Thank you. I think it's just something I need to re-evaluate where I'm at in doing weddings, and talk to the primary about pay at that point.

Thanks for everyone's comments.

divamum · March 17, 2009

Candid Arts wrote:

Also, going to talk to my friend (her other 2nd shooter) as well and see how much he's making. He does good work, but I personally think I've got it better than he...but that's all just opinion (to a certain extent)

If you do feel this is a subject which can be broached without resentment be discreet and tactful about it so that you don't put the other guy in a tight spot. Also, just be aware that a lot of people don't like discussing their fees with colleagues especially those who are, let's face it, a direct competitor. You may find it uncomfortable and also remember that plenty of times people (in any walk of life) feel the need either to be cagey about their fees or, if they do discuss them, they don't always stick to the facts and just the facts (this is not photography-specific, btw - I see it plenty in my own field!).

Since you feel (however off the record) that you're out-and-out better than he is, whether you say that or not, your attitude may come through when you talk to him, so I'd be really careful in the words you choose lest a chance question for info turns into a bone of contention that sours what sounds like an ok relationship at the moment!

Just sayin'....

Candid Arts · March 17, 2009

divamum wrote:

If you do feel this is a subject which can be broached without resentment be discreet and tactful about it so that you don't put the other guy in a tight spot. Also, just be aware that a lot of people don't like discussing their fees with colleagues especially those who are, let's face it, a direct competitor. You may find it both uncomfortable - plenty of times people (in any walk of life) feel the need not only to be cagey about their fees, but if they do discuss them, they don't always stick to the facts and just the facts (this is not photography-specific, btw - I see it plenty in my own field!).

Since you feel (however off the record) that you're out-and-out better than he is, whether you say that or not, your attitude may come through when you talk to him, so I'd be really careful in the words you choose lest a chance question for info turns into a bone of contention that sours what sounds like an ok relationship at the moment!

Just sayin'....

I think it is. He got into photography because I was into it. It just kind of fell into place with him though as one of his best friends is the primary's son, so he got an in that way. This guy is more than willing to share almost ANY (and I literally mean ANY) aspect of his life, with almost anyone. I know too that he highly regards and respects my work as well. So I don't forsee there being an issue by me asking him in that regards. With the competition think, I don't think that'd be an issue either. He's higher on the list than I, known the family for years and years (I've known the primary for about a year), and lives A LOT closer to where the weddings or receptions would be, where as I am about 80 miles away (on average). So "competition" I don't think is an issue in this case either. But I understand what you're saying.

Also...when I do "talk" to him, that's where the handyness of texting comes in!:ivar

Thanks for the help though. It's all appreciated.

dank-photo · March 17, 2009

Candid Arts wrote:

Also...when I do "talk" to him, that's where the handyness of texting comes in!:ivar

I'm not a fan of texting in the first place...but I would certainly suggest talking to him in person or nonchalantly asking him while you are hanging out as friends. Like you've read...pay can be a sore subject...and probably not one to text about.

Candid Arts · March 17, 2009

dank-photo wrote:

I'm not a fan of texting in the first place...but I would certainly suggest talking to him in person or nonchalantly asking him while you are hanging out as friends. Like you've read...pay can be a sore subject...and probably not one to text about.

Talking to him in person would require about a two hour drive. Calling is an option, but both of our primary ways of communication is texting. But I do see your point.

zoomer · March 19, 2009

I normally only use a few of their shots so I don't pay them anything.
The value they get is in the experience they gain, they know that going in.

mmmatt · March 25, 2009

Average in my neck of the woods is $300 per day with the 2nd doing their own raw conversion. I hired a friend to shoot 2nd for me last October for $100. Her first wedding, my equipment, and I did all the post. She was happy to get it and I loved her work. In the future I will kick her up to $200 and make her do her own raw conversion, or $300 if she gets gear (she is a medium format girl). I charge an additional $550 in my packages for a 2nd shooter but that includes printed proofs and me doing a lot more post work.

I just booked one for 2010 where I hired a guy who has mentored me over the past two years and I'm paying him $500 because I want him to shoot it with me. He has probably 15 years of weddings under his belt and is an asset in every way. I have another photographer friend that trys to sell an upgrade of a 2nd shooter to all of her clients. Regardless if they bite or not she brings her 2nd. If they don't upgrade she pays him $300 and if they do he gets $600. He has his own gear and does no post work.

Sooooo. It is all over the board around here. I have shot 2nd for anywhere from 150-350 but I know it can be higher or lower than that too. I am shooting a corprate event as a 2nd next month for $300 and that is just candids for 4 hrs shoot jpg and burn for the primary at the end of the night so he can put on the web the next day. I consider that pretty good money for shooting 2nd.

Matt

2nd Shooter Pay?

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