Graduated ND Filters???

anonymouscuban · January 13, 2009

I have a pretty good understanding on what ND filters how, when and why to use them, but I don't have any clue on how they attach to the lens or what brands are recommended.

I was informed on another thread that they are not necessarily screw on type filters like others filter types. If so, how do they attach to the lens?

Also, I have several lenses but see that I would probably only use an ND filter on my Tokina 11-16mm wide angle and my Sigma 17-70mm lens. They are 77mm and 72mm respectively. Do I have to purchase to sets of ND filters or can I have one that works on both lenses?

I thought I saw recently on a thread an ND filter that you can adjust the stops by spinning it. I too remember it being very expensive, like $300. Is this worth it?

Brendan · January 13, 2009

Cokin filters use a holder system, where you screw in an attachment, and then a filter holder snaps on to the thing you screw in. The holder can rotate freely, which is really helpful. Check these links for some visual examples:
http://www.cokin.com/ico15/ico15-haut.html
http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/User-Guide/filter/Cokin-Systems.html

I use the Cokin P Series holder with Hitech GND filters (0.9 and 0.6 soft). I got all of this for a pretty reasonable price, and they work well enough. Example 1 Example 2

To answer your question about lens sizes, you can make sure that the Cokin series you buy is big enough for your widest angle lens, and then simply buy an extra adapter, so you won't need to duplicate filters. The standard P Series holder will vignette at angles wider than 28mm (35mm equivalent), but you can use a wide angle holder for 20mm+ (35mm equivalent). So you may need a wide holder for the Tokina lens, but you won't need to buy duplicate filters.

I'm sure there are other GND systems you can use, but this works well for me and for others, and would be a good place to start.

The variable ND filter is by Singh Ray, and yes, it is expensive. I don't believe it is a graduated ND filter, so it's more useful for blocking light to show movements (for waterfalls, rivers, etc.). At least on my budget, it doesn't even factor into the equation. Perhaps for you it would, but that's up to you.

Hope this helps.
—Brendan

Shootin1st · January 13, 2009

Lee also makes a holder system.

Don't forget...you can always buy a 3x3 or 4x4 and just hold it by hand if you have to.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/shop/3837/Lee_Filter_Holders.html

pathfinder · January 13, 2009

Shootin1st wrote:

Lee also makes a holder system.

Don't forget...you can always buy a 3x3 or 4x4 and just hold it by hand if you have to.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/shop/3837/Lee_Filter_Holders.html

Andy posted a picture of me hand holding a Graduated ND with one hand in front of my lens, and a cable release in my other hand.

A couple pieces of tape will work also from the edge of the filter to your lens hood too.

You do not want graduated NDs that screw into your lens filter threads ( manufacturers do make them ) - you cannot see where the neutral density is easily - even a 3 stop Grad ND is harder to notice looking through your viewfinder than you might think, and a screw in filter you cannot raise or lower in front of your lens to place the gradient where you want it.

With a rectangular filter in a Cokin style holder, you look through the viewfinder and raise and lower the filter to adjust the gradient precisely where you want it - which is never right in the middle of your lens axis - You can see the movement of the gradient up and down a lot easier than when it is stationary.

I usually hold mine freehand, unless I am shooting with a shutter speed slower than 1/200th or so.

anonymouscuban · January 13, 2009

Great information guys. Everything makes sense. I see why you would not want a screw on type. I also understand how you can hand hold them.

So is this what I would need to hold the filters onto my 77mm wide angle lens?

http://www.amazon.com/Cokin-Filter-Holder-Adpater-Instruction/dp/B0010841A6/ref=pd_cp_p_2?pf_rd_p=413862901&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000B792W4&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0BJFZ5DG0PDZG0SM4CNC

And then the filters themselves as well as another adapter ring to fit my 72mm lens?

pathfinder · January 13, 2009

anonymouscuban wrote:

Great information guys. Everything makes sense. I see why you would not want a screw on type. I also understand how you can hand hold them.

So is this what I would need to hold the filters onto my 77mm wide angle lens?

http://www.amazon.com/Cokin-Filter-Holder-Adpater-Instruction/dp/B0010841A6/ref=pd_cp_p_2?pf_rd_p=413862901&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000B792W4&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0BJFZ5DG0PDZG0SM4CNC

And then the filters themselves as well as another adapter ring to fit my 72mm lens?

Look down near the bottom of that link you posted and your will see what look like empty circles. These are what you actually screw into your filter thread, and then the Cokin adapter mounts onto that and holds the rectangular filter itself.

Separate adapters can fit 49mm, 52mm, 58mm, 67mm, 72mm 77mm filter threads

I carry a set of adapters and the Cokin filter holder in a heavy duty 1 quart plastic freezer bag. Keeps everything together and at hand.

anonymouscuban · January 13, 2009

Or this plus the adaptor rings for the lenses?

http://www.amazon.com/Cokin-ND-Filter-Kit-Holder/dp/B000A40M22/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1231899863&sr=1-1

anonymouscuban · January 13, 2009

Very Cool...
so doing a few more searches, I am finding that with this filter system, you can buy other types of filters to fit the holder, saving you from buying a screw-type for every single lens you own.

NICE! I already have my sales pitch ready for the wife.

gracenrich · January 15, 2009

take a look at
E Bay for the holder and adapter rings]

anonymouscuban · January 15, 2009

gracenrich wrote:

E Bay for the holder and adapter rings]

Cool. I will check there.

a110p0 · January 16, 2009

I have Singh Ray GNDs. I also have Cokin P holders with adapter rings
too, but lately, I've been hand hold them which works well if you're
changing lenses often or if the light is rapidly changing.

Hand holding can also be a little awkward, when you try to hold
the filter with one hand and trip the shutter with the other.

One time I was hand holding my SR GND and it flipped out of my hand and
dropped into a small creek, for a moment, I thought I had lost an
expensive filter, but stuck my hand into the drink and was lucky
to retrieve it.

Haven't tried this in the field yet, but I attached two pieces of tape
to the opposite corners of the GND so I can hold it with two hands
and trip the shutter using a cable release stuck in my mouth with my
tongue. I got the tongue idea from Rod Barbee.

The Vari ND filter looks really neat and that's a screw on filter.

I guess I'm a bit lazy and having to deal with adapter rings isn't my bag
so I prefer not to use them and it's more stuff to carry around.

Alvin

astockwell · May 16, 2009

A few people I shoot with sometimes hand hold, but lets face it, I think it is really a mute point, when a holder can be changed from lens to lens so fast, and you have more precise adjustment of the filter placement with the holder. In the realm of Landscape work, your subject usually isn't changing so fast (like wildlife can) where you need to handhold. If you have a holder use it, you will then keep from bumping the lens with the filter, and have fun hand holding a filter for 30 secs or more. Just isn't practical for me I guess. Also, check out Hi-Tech filters on 2filter.com (the 4X4's and 4X6's are the same as Cokin Z-pro and will fit at Cokin Z holder, which is cheaper than the Hi-Tech holder), They always have really good prices on them, and Hi-Techs are optically better quality than Cokin's, which I have owned, and they had a purple cast to them (I am not the only one, do a google search for cokin ND grad purple color cast). If anyone has any questions about ND's and GND's, ask me either in this thread, or via PM, I have owned both screw ins and cokin type setups, and I have quite a bit of experience with both, as I use ND's and Grads almost everytime I shoot. (I prefer Cokin Type setups BTW)

-Andy

tisun · May 16, 2009

I know it depends on the situation but which GND filters do you use the most: 1-stop, 2-stop, 3-stop? Hard edge or soft edge?

astockwell · May 16, 2009

tisun wrote:

I know it depends on the situation but which GND filters do you use the most: 1-stop, 2-stop, 3-stop? Hard edge or soft edge?

Lately, I have been using almost exclusively 3 and 4 stops. A combo of a 3 stop grad, a 3 stop solid, or 4 stop solid, or just the 3 stop GND by itself. It is mostly for an effect I keep looking for. At the beginning of civil twilight in the morning, I can expose for 4-5 minutes with the grad/solid setup, and a f/11 apeture. I am trying to get the perfect motion blur cloud shot. I have quite a few, but still not happy yet. Also I prefer Soft Edges, since you get a more gentle gradient, and it is harder to see poor grad placement (sometimes you don't have a choice). In shooting with hard edges, I constanly could see where I had messed up the grad placement on a great shot. Another thing that is cool when I was shooting with the 4/3stop combination the other day, just after sunrise, I was still able to get 61s of exposure at f/11, ISO 100 with the sun behind me.

-Andy

Graduated ND Filters???

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