exif being stripped (PSP and older Mavica discussion)

TCEckels · December 24, 2008

I'm still kinda new here and frankly the amount of content here is somewhat overwhelming, BUT, I think I've read all the rules and understand their intent for the challenge comps. The only concern I have that I need an answer to is......I have an older Sony Digital (CD500 I think?) that still does excellent work. My problem is this EXIF stuff. I've had the manual out and read it from end to end to make sure I'm not missing anything there but my entire EXIF data seems to be size of image. There's no date or all the fancy stuff I see from other entries. The only adjustment I can find on the camera for a date is to put a visible date on each pic and I don't want to do that, it's not part of the EXIF data anyhow. I'm not sure if there's something hiding somewhere either that I missing but everytime I try I only get the size.
So, my question is, am I going to be exiled and not allowed to participate in the challenges until I get a new camera that has all this fancy data spitting capability?? Does anybody else know about this camera that can point me in the right direction if it will in fact spit out more data???
I'd like to get in the game and play with ya'll but from the rules the way I'm reading them it looks like I'm ineligible. :-(

Tc

pyry · December 24, 2008

TCEckels wrote:

I'm still kinda new here and frankly the amount of content here is somewhat overwhelming, BUT, I think I've read all the rules and understand their intent for the challenge comps. The only concern I have that I need an answer to is......I have an older Sony Digital (CD500 I think?) that still does excellent work. My problem is this EXIF stuff.

The CD500 Mavica does record exif data. Are you sure you are not using a piece of software that strips it anywhere along the line when you prep a picture for upload, like Photoshop's Save for web feature?

TCEckels · December 24, 2008

pyry wrote:

The CD500 Mavica does record exif data. Are you sure you are not using a piece of software that strips it anywhere along the line when you prep a picture for upload, like Photoshop's Save for web feature?

I ddn't say it didn't record EXIF data......I said it didn't record enough to fulfull the requirements of the challenges as I understand it. Go here and hit the photo info button to understand what I mean. It records file name, image size and photo dimension in the basic tab and nothing in the advanced.

http://tceckels.smugmug.com/gallery/6480163_hgCco#412032942_vVF6F

I'm from the old school of slide film and WYSIWYG. I use Paint Shop Pro to view my images. I don't manipulate my images there or any where else other than to change image size depending on application and file name.

If there's a setting I haven't been able to find on the camera or manual that'll change it from just the basics to extended info I'd love to know where it's hiding.....

Tc

TCEckels · December 25, 2008

TCEckels wrote:

If there's a setting I haven't been able to find on the camera or manual that'll change it from just the basics to extended info I'd love to know where it's hiding.....

Tc

Ok, I stand corrected. After thinking about this problem for awhile I took an image that was a throwaway, with the original file name the camera doles out and uploaded that and got a ton of info in both the basic and advanced catagories. BUT NOW, I've got a dozen questions.....I made a new gallery to upload some photos to for testing, called TEST, strangely enough and put this first image up. Then, I took the same image and simply changed the file name from DSC00235.jpg to TEST1.jpg. Uploaded that one. I did nothing but change the name of this second image and after uploading it, all the info is once again gone and not only that but the image size has been reduced by about 50% ??? WHY?
Obviously this is a Paint Shop Pro issue, even if all I do is change the name. I've spent an hour looking for settings and / or info on how not to have the EXIF data stripped and have been unable to find the answer. Talk about fustrating.....anybody got any ideas where I might look? I'd like to get to the bottom of this problem. PSP is pretty much set up the way Photoshop is....it's just missing some of the top end features.

Here's the link to the TEST gallery with the two pics.

http://tceckels.smugmug.com/gallery/6913633_kvUAt#442402117_KwkbR

pyry · December 25, 2008

TCEckels wrote:

Then, I took the same image and simply changed the file name from DSC00235.jpg to TEST1.jpg. Uploaded that one. I did nothing but change the name of this second image and after uploading it, all the info is once again gone and not only that but the image size has been reduced by about 50% ??? WHY?

Educated guess: PSP has resampled the image into a lower quality JPEG and lost the exif data in the process. Exif isn't saved in just one end of the file, but all over the place which means that you need to use an application that knows it's there and how to handle it. If I remember correctly some versions of PSP aren't exif aware, which version are you using?

And Merry Christmas and Happy Thursday to all of you

divamum · December 25, 2008

Here's a thought (if only as a diagnostic): download picasa from google (it's free). Import the photos onto the computer with that and see if the info stays. I used it when I was using psp 8 and 9, and had no exif issues. (picasa's a great cataloger, and not bad for a down-and-dirty basic editor, too. I still use it to import to the computer even though I have both Photoshop and CS3, simply because I like the interface, the speed, the simplicity and the stability of it).

If it works, then you know it's a psp thing. If not, then you can move on to the next stage of figuring out why the exif goes buh-buh when you upload.

TCEckels · December 25, 2008

pyry wrote:

Educated guess: PSP has resampled the image into a lower quality JPEG and lost the exif data in the process. Exif isn't saved in just one end of the file, but all over the place which means that you need to use an application that knows it's there and how to handle it. If I remember correctly some versions of PSP aren't exif aware, which version are you using?

I'm using PSP7. Guess I'll have to find out if version 7 handles EXIF data. I can't afford to upgrade at this point in time so I guess until I can get this worked out I won't be participating in the challenges.

Thanks for the feedback.

Tom

TCEckels · December 25, 2008

divamum wrote:

Here's a thought (if only as a diagnostic): download picasa from google (it's free). Import the photos onto the computer with that and see if the info stays. I used it when I was using psp 8 and 9, and had no exif issues. (picasa's a great cataloger, and not bad for a down-and-dirty basic editor, too. I still use it to import to the computer even though I have both Photoshop and CS3, simply because I like the interface, the speed, the simplicity and the stability of it).
If it works, then you know it's a psp thing. If not, then you can move on to the next stage of figuring out why the exif goes buh-buh when you upload.

The EXIF data doesn't disappear when I upload.....
I guess I"m not commuicating very well. I don't know why I'd need picasa to get my pics from camera to computer. The CD500 Mavica uses the half size CD's to store images. When a CD-RW is full I simply remove it from the camera, put it in the CD tray in my computer and then simply copy the images to a monthly folder that I create. Uploading from camera to compute is not where the problem lies. There's no need for any software to do any of that. I can't understand why I'd need any software to simply move the images from camera to computer. If that's the case with newer camera's then I think I'll hang onto the mavica as long as possible.

I believe in my last post I had already proven, by the two pics in the TEST folder, that the image still has all the EXIF data in the image, even using PSP7, UNTIL I do anything to it, even as simple a move as changing the file name from the one the camera assigns to one I assign wipes out the majority of the EXIF data. So the problem is definitely in the PSP program. I guess at this point I need to find out why it's wiping out the EXIF data as soon as I do something as simple as change the file name. If I need to upgrade my PSP to a newer version to fix this problem then it'll simply have to wait...the company I'm working for will probably be out of business by spring, thanks to the crooks on wall street and billion dollar bankster bailout scam. I just wanted to have a little fun until things get ugly.

Thanks for the feedback. Sorry if I sound snippy....it's been a lousy day.

Tom

divamum · December 25, 2008

Just brainstorming here - I don't know the camera, so I'm just trying to think through any possibilities that spring to mind.

What format are the images on the disks from the camera - are they jpgs or a format native to your camera? If the original files are not jpgs, but the finished file you create - after editing - IS a jpg, then there IS some kind of software translation going on at some point.

While I appreciate you like your workflow as it stands, is there any reason not to try what you're already doing with PSP in Picasa to see if it solves the problem? If it doesn't work, then no harm no foul (and no money spent!); if it does, then you're good to go with it as a workaround. And I know for sure that that it leaves exif data intact (since I use it). Just a thought. (I'm talking about the downloadable program, not the web program - you can find it here)

I hear you on the economic stuff - I've lost half my projected income for next year due a company bankruptcy. Sorry to hear you're on tenterhooks too.

TCEckels wrote:

The EXIF data doesn't disappear when I upload.....
I guess I"m not commuicating very well. I don't know why I'd need picasa to get my pics from camera to computer. The CD500 Mavica uses the half size CD's to store images. When a CD-RW is full I simply remove it from the camera, put it in the CD tray in my computer and then simply copy the images to a monthly folder that I create. Uploading from camera to compute is not where the problem lies. There's no need for any software to do any of that. I can't understand why I'd need any software to simply move the images from camera to computer. If that's the case with newer camera's then I think I'll hang onto the mavica as long as possible.

I believe in my last post I had already proven, by the two pics in the TEST folder, that the image still has all the EXIF data in the image, even using PSP7, UNTIL I do anything to it, even as simple a move as changing the file name from the one the camera assigns to one I assign wipes out the majority of the EXIF data. So the problem is definitely in the PSP program. I guess at this point I need to find out why it's wiping out the EXIF data as soon as I do something as simple as change the file name. If I need to upgrade my PSP to a newer version to fix this problem then it'll simply have to wait...the company I'm working for will probably be out of business by spring, thanks to the crooks on wall street and billion dollar bankster bailout scam. I just wanted to have a little fun until things get ugly.

Thanks for the feedback. Sorry if I sound snippy....it's been a lousy day.

Tom

JAG · December 26, 2008

TCEckels wrote:

I'm using PSP7. Guess I'll have to find out if version 7 handles EXIF data. I can't afford to upgrade at this point in time so I guess until I can get this worked out I won't be participating in the challenges.

Thanks for the feedback.

Tom

HI...
I use psp 9 and pspX2 as my editing tools. I have only lost the exif file when I have saved as a "copy". So if I copy and paste as a new image or save as a "copy" it will loose the exif.

Thus when I change the name of an image...I will save it to a completely new folder and not as a "copy". This way the original will stay in the "original" folder and an edited version will be in an "edited" folder. IF YOU SAVE AS AN COPY IT WILL LOOSE THE EXIF.

Now that said. I do not have psp7 and I do not have a Sony camera. I did find a thread on another forum that talked about this very thing...
https://www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=72629

I don't know if that discussion came up with a correct answer but the guy had the same problem you are having and what I did read....he was saving as a "copy".

I hope I have been helpful to you and that you have a nice holiday!

pyry · December 26, 2008

TCEckels wrote:

I'm using PSP7. Guess I'll have to find out if version 7 handles EXIF data. I can't afford to upgrade at this point in time so I guess until I can get this worked out I won't be participating in the challenges.

Thanks for the feedback.

Tom

PSP7 apparently does not do exif, but you do have options.

Divamum mentioned Google's Picasa software, it can do basic editing in addition to being a catalog program.

GIMP is also a good option and provides more powerful tools without trying to sell you an online gallery service. It's available for several platforms.

And of course you can pass edits by completely and upload staight out of the camera.

DoctorIt · December 26, 2008

Since it's turned into its own discussion that wasn't solved in a quick reply or two, I moved this over to a thread by itself.

Tom, welcome

I haven't been able to follow all these details, however, I'm pretty sure there is no digital camera (phones and multi-purpose devices excluded) that do not record the most basic exif data. The gang here will sort you out.

travelways · December 26, 2008

For this photo:
http://tceckels.smugmug.com/gallery/6913633_kvUAt#442402117_KwkbR

I see the date Taken and Modified the same: 2008-09-05

For the second photo I don't see the time

David_S85 · December 26, 2008

100% certain that PSP7 does not gather EXIF data, so it has no way to pass it on to an edited image. In fact, "EXIF" is nowhere to be found within the help files (I just checked).

Beginning with PSP8, it gained EXIF capability, though it was very basic compared with what more modern image editing software can read.

exif being stripped (PSP and older Mavica discussion)

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