Shutter speed to stop motion a fountain?

JamesbjenkinsJamesbjenkins Registered Users Posts: 435 Major grins
edited February 23, 2012 in Technique
Hey all, this past week I did some scouting for a wedding I'm shooting in February. It's at a catholic church and there's this lovely fountain in front of the sanctuary where the ceremony is being held. In my mind's eye, I see a great picture of a fountain 1/3 right in foreground, people milling in the OOF background, left 2/3 of the frame.

My question I'd love some feedback on is this: What's the best shutter speed, aperture combination to stop free falling water in its tracks (like from a fountain), while still letting enough ambient light in to properly expose the background without me having to fiddle with crap in post? The wedding is at 2pm, so for ease of discussion, let's assume it's a bright, partly cloudy day. I'll probably be shooting at either ISO 100 or 200, depending on weather...

I'm sure there's lots of experience I can tap. Thanks in advance for your replies!
Website: www.captured-photos.com
Proofing: clients.captured-photos.com
Facebook: Like Me || Twitter: Follow Me
Gear: Lots of Nikon bodies & glass, an office full of tools and toys

Comments

  • pathfinderpathfinder Super Moderators Posts: 14,694 moderator
    edited January 15, 2012
    Falling water is harder to stop than you might think. Depends on how close you are visually to the falling water too.

    I think you will need flash - speedlites - for the look you are wanting.

    This frame was shot at 1/1250th and it certainly does not stop the water movement.

    642767019_A7H59-XL.jpg

    This is 1/250th of a sec

    994902424_oAb5C-XL.jpg

    How about a long shutter speed with the water being quite blurred, with just a pop of second curtain flash to light your bridal party?

    If you really want to stop falling water droplets, I think you need at least 1/3000th or faster, which is effectively in speedlite territory ( even though your shutter speed with a speedlite may be as long as 1/12th )

    I would suggest a wider aperture to put the water fountain out of focus, as I do not think you can capture the bride as sharply as desired and still have the fountain in the background tack sharp too.
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • kdogkdog Administrators Posts: 11,680 moderator
    edited January 15, 2012
    pathfinder wrote: »
    If you really want to stop falling water droplets, I think you need at least 1/3000th or faster,
    How "stopped" do the droplets need to be? This is 1/1600 and the droplets look pretty stopped to me, or close enough for government work.

    IMG2572-X3.jpg
  • JamesbjenkinsJamesbjenkins Registered Users Posts: 435 Major grins
    edited January 15, 2012
    kdog wrote: »
    How "stopped" do the droplets need to be? This is 1/1600 and the droplets look pretty stopped to me, or close enough for government work.

    The surfer picture looks a lot closer to what I'm thinking of than Pathfinder's shot of the girl in the first picture. The consensus from my reading several blogs elsewhere was that you have to be at a minimum of 1/1000 depending on how the water was falling.

    My plan for the fountain shot was to get really close to minimum focus distance, shooting wide open and try to frame the shot with as much of the face of the church and wedding party in as possible. I'll probably be shooting the Nikon 14-24, so framing should be cake.

    What's the rest of the EXIF on that surfer shot? I'm mainly concerned about getting the right exposure for the background. I can always use NR in lightroom if I have to jump the fill light, but I'd rather not.

    Thanks for the feedback guys! This is good.
    Website: www.captured-photos.com
    Proofing: clients.captured-photos.com
    Facebook: Like Me || Twitter: Follow Me
    Gear: Lots of Nikon bodies & glass, an office full of tools and toys
  • kdogkdog Administrators Posts: 11,680 moderator
    edited January 16, 2012
    What's the rest of the EXIF on that surfer shot?

    Here you go. Not sure how helpful this will be, I had tons of light.

    Camera Model: Canon EOS 7D
    Lens: EF500mm f/4L IS USM
    Image Date: 2012-01-03 13:31:46 (no TZ)
    Focal Length: 500mm
    Aperture: f/8.0
    Exposure Time: 0.0006 s (1/1600)
    ISO equiv: 200
    Exposure Bias: +1.00 EV
    Metering Mode: Center Weight
    Exposure: shutter priority (semi-auto)
    White Balance: Auto
  • JamesbjenkinsJamesbjenkins Registered Users Posts: 435 Major grins
    edited January 16, 2012
    kdog wrote: »
    Here you go. Not sure how helpful this will be, I had tons of light.

    Camera Model: Canon EOS 7D
    Lens: EF500mm f/4L IS USM
    Image Date: 2012-01-03 13:31:46 (no TZ)
    Focal Length: 500mm
    Aperture: f/8.0
    Exposure Time: 0.0006 s (1/1600)
    ISO equiv: 200
    Exposure Bias: +1.00 EV
    Metering Mode: Center Weight
    Exposure: shutter priority (semi-auto)
    White Balance: Auto

    Wow! ISO 200 and f/8, at 1/1600? Tons of light is an understatement. Thanks for sharing.
    Website: www.captured-photos.com
    Proofing: clients.captured-photos.com
    Facebook: Like Me || Twitter: Follow Me
    Gear: Lots of Nikon bodies & glass, an office full of tools and toys
  • IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
    edited January 16, 2012
    Your problem is angular momentum (OK, that's prolly not the right tech term.) The closer you are to the subject, the greater the blur you get from any amount of absolute motion of the subject. The surfer water looks sharp because it's far away. Water falling only moves so fast. The closer the subject, the faster the angle changes. That's what gives you the blur.
    John :
    Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
    D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
  • angevin1angevin1 Registered Users Posts: 3,403 Major grins
    edited January 16, 2012
    Joel, that's one Neat as Heck Surf Shot!!
    kdog wrote: »
    How "stopped" do the droplets need to be? This is 1/1600 and the droplets look pretty stopped to me, or close enough for government work.

    IMG2572-X3.jpg
    tom wise
  • SandSand Registered Users Posts: 40 Big grins
    edited January 16, 2012
    Icebear - I think the term you want is "relative angular velocity".
    In any case the important factor is how many pixels of the photo does the water cross in the exposure time. Since the water accelerates as it falls this will depend on the height of the fountain (how far the water falls), the fraction of the photo frame the fountain fills and how much of the fountain that needs to be frozen. Looking at Kdog's great photo, you can see that the water above the surfer's shoulder is frozen and lower than his butt it is blurry (only look at the water behind him). It would be interesting to see what one gets with bracketed shutter speeds from 1/500 to 1/4000 seconds. I would try it, but they shut off the water on my local fountain.
  • Moving PicturesMoving Pictures Registered Users Posts: 384 Major grins
    edited January 17, 2012
    Sand wrote: »
    I would try it, but they shut off the water on my local fountain.

    Fer a second, I thought you were going to tell us they soaped it.

    Which would give you a rock-star inside track on the shapes and angles DSS challenge.
    Newspaper photogs specialize in drive-by shootings.
    Forum for Canadian shooters: www.canphoto.net
  • babowcbabowc Registered Users Posts: 510 Major grins
    edited January 18, 2012
    James! Will you be shooting this with the D700? :)
    Give it a go with a dry fountain shot to see what kind of SS you'll need.. that might give you a starting point!
    -Mike Jin
    D800
    16/2.8, f1.4G primes, f2.8 trio, 105/200 macro, SB900.
    It never gets easier, you just get better.
  • JamesbjenkinsJamesbjenkins Registered Users Posts: 435 Major grins
    edited January 23, 2012
    babowc wrote: »
    James! Will you be shooting this with the D700? :)
    Give it a go with a dry fountain shot to see what kind of SS you'll need.. that might give you a starting point!

    I'm picking up the 700 from the post office tomorrow. They tried to deliver while I was at work today. Thankfully, I'll have plenty of time to play with it before the wedding. I'll upload a few shots once I get to shoot them.
    Website: www.captured-photos.com
    Proofing: clients.captured-photos.com
    Facebook: Like Me || Twitter: Follow Me
    Gear: Lots of Nikon bodies & glass, an office full of tools and toys
  • JamesbjenkinsJamesbjenkins Registered Users Posts: 435 Major grins
    edited February 23, 2012
    So, I shot the wedding in question this past weekend. I got to shoot some of the fountain shots I was dreaming up. Here's one of them.

    untitled-120218-34-L.jpg

    Once I get some more of the session processed, I'll post more.
    Website: www.captured-photos.com
    Proofing: clients.captured-photos.com
    Facebook: Like Me || Twitter: Follow Me
    Gear: Lots of Nikon bodies & glass, an office full of tools and toys
Sign In or Register to comment.