Some break dancers in China

InsuredDisasterInsuredDisaster Registered Users Posts: 1,132 Major grins
edited March 26, 2011 in People
<DL style="WIDTH: 810px" id=attachment_2287 class="wp-caption alignnone"><DT class=wp-caption-dt>700_8581-Edit-Edit-800x532.jpg</DT><DD class=wp-caption-dd>Breakdancer "Stone".</DD></DL>
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<DL style="WIDTH: 810px" id=attachment_2284 class="wp-caption alignnone"><DT class=wp-caption-dt>700_8516-Edit-800x532.jpg</DT><DD class=wp-caption-dd>Stone and his gang. </DD></DL>
The wife has gone to visit the inlaws, so I'm at home alone. I selected my F4 and went out for a walk intending to push some Ilford Pan 400 a stop or two. Hopefully those photos turned out but I'll just have to wait and see. However, when I came across these break dancers in the Zhong Da university square, I returned to the apartment and grabbed my D700, my SB600 for off camera flash, and SB800 for my commander. I also grabbed my flash gels to help balance the orange color cast from the lights in case I wanted to leave anything in color. I already had my tripod so I didn't bring a seperate light stand.
<DL style="WIDTH: 810px" id=attachment_2281 class="wp-caption alignnone"><DT class=wp-caption-dt>700_8428-Edit-800x532.jpg</DT><DD class=wp-caption-dd>This was from the first burst of shots and apparently impressed them enough that they were quite eager to have me keep shooting.</DD></DL>
<DL style="WIDTH: 810px" id=attachment_2282 class="wp-caption alignnone"><DT class=wp-caption-dt>700_8495-Edit-800x532.jpg</DT><DD class=wp-caption-dd>One of Stone's friends.</DD></DL>
I wanted hard cross light but really feel I would have had better luck with 2 flashes. My lens for all of these shots was the 14-24. I was pretty light figuring I'd show up with just a little equipment and then maybe bring more in the future. When I encounter skateboarders I'm the same way figuring I can build up some rapport first before I start popping of banks of speedlights. Theys guys were super nice and we spent more time talking than dancing/shooting. I mainly talked to a guy "Stone." He is 19 and works at a KTV but I'm not exactly sure of his position. He is out dancing nearly every night at roughly the same time he says. I'll probably return in the future. I didn't really get that many that I was happy with.
<DL style="WIDTH: 676px" id=attachment_2286 class="wp-caption alignnone"><DT class=wp-caption-dt>700_8568-Edit.jpg</DT><DD class=wp-caption-dd>Another from Stone. He really wanted some photos of himself so he was willing to go through his moves several times. Part of the problem was that I had to show him what he needed to do, but I don't think these moves are easy to do.</DD></DL>
In the past with skateboarders I would almost always shoot fully manual including manual flash. But generally the skateboarders I was shooting were doing one trick over and over again, and they were good enough to land in the same spot nearly every time. Distance to flashes and overall lighting hardly ever changed. But I noticed that here the dancers were wheeling and spinning all over the place so I decided to let the flash handle things. TTL all the way. I turned up the shutter speed to 180th/sec and cranked the ISO up to 3200. f Stop was 2.8. I wanted to let in a lot of background light, but I didn't want to have a lot of blur but at the same time I wanted to maximize the flash firing rate. I didn't really play with the shutter speed until later when I wanted to put a harder shadow on the wall. At that point I dropped the ISO to 400, turned the shutter speed up to 250th/sec but left the aperture at 2.8 to help with flash range and firing rate. I'm actually very impressed with the TTL.
<DL style="WIDTH: 810px" id=attachment_2283 class="wp-caption alignnone"><DT class=wp-caption-dt>700_8505-Edit-800x532.jpg</DT><DD class=wp-caption-dd>Fairly early on I noticed the shadow on the wall and had Stone perform his moves closer to it.</DD></DL>
Luck had a lot to do with my low keeper rate. Many of the shots had a bad shadow from an arm across the face. In the future I'll probably set up a second bank and possibly double up speedlights for my main light to help with cycling time.
The funny thing is that when I showed up there were only a few people watching Stone and his crew. But within a minute of my arrival (and my flashes going off) the crowd swelled to 20 people. This is pretty normal. Earlier this evening I turned around after setting my tripod and F4 up and found a crowd of 15 behind me.
<DL style="WIDTH: 810px" id=attachment_2285 class="wp-caption alignnone"><DT class=wp-caption-dt>700_8524-Edit-800x532.jpg</DT><DD class=wp-caption-dd>Stone in color.</DD></DL>

Comments or critique appreciated.:thumb

Comments

  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited February 28, 2011
    ID, could you explain the connection between higher shutter speed and harder shadow.

    Neil
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

    http://www.behance.net/brosepix
  • InsuredDisasterInsuredDisaster Registered Users Posts: 1,132 Major grins
    edited February 28, 2011
    Perhaps we might have different definitions of "hard." I'm not sure if the edge would be more defined but what I do mean is that the shadow would be more pronounced. I'm posting an example that shows what I'm talking about. Please forgive ugliness of the example. Both are straight out of camera with no PP.
    Shot 1
    1/45th @ 5.6, ISO 1600
    This was just about what the camera metered for the ambient. I popped a speedlight off camera using a cable and more or less shot my shadow. Come to think of it, I dind't even focus the camera. But note the more "gray" shadow.
    700_8593.jpg

    For this one I changed nothing but the Shutter speed which was pushed to 1/250th. The speedlight is on TTL.
    Note how the shadow is more of a black. I could have dropped the ISO on both shots to make it more obvious, but does this demonstrate what I'm talking about?
    700_8594.jpg

    Thank you for your question. I really wanted something with very hard shadows and high contrast. Perhaps that what I mean, I'm increasing the contrast of the shadow area vs the non shadow areas by using a higher shutter speed (which cuts down ambient light.)
  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited February 28, 2011
    Thanks very much for the clarification. Yes overall exposure will darken with shorter shutter speed if the aperture is kept constant, of course.

    Your technical experiments with these shots are very interesting.

    Neil
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

    http://www.behance.net/brosepix
  • anonymouscubananonymouscuban Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 4,586 Major grins
    edited March 1, 2011
    NeilL wrote: »
    Thanks very much for the clarification. Yes overall exposure will darken with shorter shutter speed if the aperture is kept constant, of course.

    Your technical experiments with these shots are very interesting.

    Neil

    Actually, a faster shutter is going to reduce the amount of ambient light. This will give a more defined shadow. Aperture will control the light from flash.

    BTW, these are really great shots. 5 is my favorite shot. I would have liked to see some with some motion blur, to imply the movement we have all come to associate with break dancing.

    Want to know something? I used to break dance as a kid, back around the first time it was cool. Tried it again about 10 years ago and nearly ruined my back.
    "I'm not yelling. I'm Cuban. That's how we talk."

    Moderator of the People and Go Figure forums

    My Smug Site
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited March 1, 2011
    I like the images.....could you give a breakdown on exif......it is stripped off the images as my exif viewers could not find it.

    Thanks
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • InsuredDisasterInsuredDisaster Registered Users Posts: 1,132 Major grins
    edited March 1, 2011
    Actually, a faster shutter is going to reduce the amount of ambient light. This will give a more defined shadow. Aperture will control the light from flash.

    BTW, these are really great shots. 5 is my favorite shot. I would have liked to see some with some motion blur, to imply the movement we have all come to associate with break dancing.

    Want to know something? I used to break dance as a kid, back around the first time it was cool. Tried it again about 10 years ago and nearly ruined my back.



    Thank you. I appreciate your viewing time and comment. I hope to return in the future, maybe a couple of weeks (about to get really busy again) and I might be able to experiment some more. However, I did take a few shots with film so depending on how badly I messed up when developed it, we might get a chance to see something!

    Glad to hear you kept your spine intact. I can't say I have any intention of trying. Looks way above my fitness and strength level!
  • InsuredDisasterInsuredDisaster Registered Users Posts: 1,132 Major grins
    edited March 1, 2011
    Art Scott wrote: »
    I like the images.....could you give a breakdown on exif......it is stripped off the images as my exif viewers could not find it.

    Thanks


    Thanks! Well, ISO 3200 (really like the D700's iso abilities), Aperture 2.8, and shutter speed 1/180th for just about all of them, exceptions noted below. I wanted to maximize my flash firing rate for bursts, hence the high ISO and wide open aperture. 1/18oth was selected as I wanted some of the background visible and not just a black hole.

    THe exceptions are the color shot of "Stone" where all else remained the same but I slowed the shutter speed a bit to 1/125 to let in more of the background.

    Then #1 and #5 (photos are not in the order that I took them) I dropped the ISO to 400, increased shutter to 250 but again left the lens wide open (2.8)

    Hope this satisfies you Art, thank you for commenting.:D
  • hioo1hioo1 Registered Users Posts: 26 Big grins
    edited March 1, 2011
    These are great! Really like the third one down, really captures the scene
  • zoomerzoomer Registered Users Posts: 3,688 Major grins
    edited March 1, 2011
    Cool shots. This had to be fun to shoot. Thanks for sharing.
    I like that you got down low for proper angles.
  • InsuredDisasterInsuredDisaster Registered Users Posts: 1,132 Major grins
    edited March 1, 2011
    hioo1 wrote: »
    These are great! Really like the third one down, really captures the scene

    Thank you!
    zoomer wrote: »
    Cool shots. This had to be fun to shoot. Thanks for sharing.
    I like that you got down low for proper angles.

    Thank you. I do not think that many Chinese people would just flop down on the pavement outside, and it was funny to see how everyone wanted to dust off my clothing later!
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited March 2, 2011
    Thanks! Well, ISO 3200 (really like the D700's iso abilities), Aperture 2.8, and shutter speed 1/180th for just about all of them, exceptions noted below. I wanted to maximize my flash firing rate for bursts, hence the high ISO and wide open aperture. 1/18oth was selected as I wanted some of the background visible and not just a black hole.

    THe exceptions are the color shot of "Stone" where all else remained the same but I slowed the shutter speed a bit to 1/125 to let in more of the background.

    Then #1 and #5 (photos are not in the order that I took them) I dropped the ISO to 400, increased shutter to 250 but again left the lens wide open (2.8)

    Hope this satisfies you Art, thank you for commenting.:D

    thank you and we can learn tons just by viewing the exif info on shots...even shots I do not care for I learn from the exif...and these do not come under the do not like umbrella...as I DO LIKE THEM.....
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • reyvee61reyvee61 Registered Users Posts: 1,877 Major grins
    edited March 2, 2011
    I really like the third one....well shot!
    Good series as well and an interesting conversation....
    Yo soy Reynaldo
  • InsuredDisasterInsuredDisaster Registered Users Posts: 1,132 Major grins
    edited March 2, 2011
    Art Scott wrote: »
    thank you and we can learn tons just by viewing the exif info on shots...even shots I do not care for I learn from the exif...and these do not come under the do not like umbrella...as I DO LIKE THEM.....

    Thanks again. Appreciate the compliment.
    reyvee61 wrote: »
    I really like the third one....well shot!
    Good series as well and an interesting conversation....

    Thank you!


    <DL style="WIDTH: 810px" id=attachment_2327 class="wp-caption alignnone"><DT class=wp-caption-dt>11470019-800x530.jpg</DT><DD class=wp-caption-dd>This one has been cropped in a bit.</DD></DL>

    A couple of shots of the break dancers taken with my Nikon F4, Ilford Pan 400 pushed to 800, (D76 mixed 1:1 for 16 minutes@ 20C) and probably the Nikon 35mm f2D lens. I want to say that shutter speed was probably about 1/10 second. with lens @f2. I figured this would be a bit slow but I decided to shoot anyway. To really burn the film I turned up the film advance speed to my camera/battery pack combination's maxium of 4fps. This is the only time I've ever used this advance speed but the sound was awesome!

    <DL style="WIDTH: 810px" id=attachment_2328 class="wp-caption alignnone"><DT class=wp-caption-dt>11470032-800x530.jpg</DT><DD class=wp-caption-dd>The black stripe at the top due to not being in contact with developing chemicals.</DD></DL>

    Unfortunately, something went wrong with the developing tank. On my second agitation cycle, I noticed spinner wheel on the film tank felt differently but there was nothing I could do. Apparently, the top roll of film in the tank was pushed up out of the chemicals or never sat at the proper level (alternately, the fluid level in the tank might not have been adequate) and thus the entire top edge of the film never was exposed. Initially I though that maybe my F4 had some sort of a stuck shutter blade but fortunatley that is not the case.

    <DL style="WIDTH: 810px" id=attachment_2326 class="wp-caption alignnone"><DT class=wp-caption-dt>11470011-800x530.jpg</DT><DD class=wp-caption-dd>Leg blue as the dancer goes through some moves.</DD></DL>


    Of course, there is no flash for these shots. I would like to return at some point and see if I can shoot again with the F4, but if memory serves me correctly, I can't use the commander mode of the SB-800, so I'd have to use the optical sensor of the SB-800 off camera with the SB-600 on camera to trigger the 800! Of course, I'd have a dificult time figuring out the flash power. Maybe I'll just take the ol' 700 out instead!
  • InsuredDisasterInsuredDisaster Registered Users Posts: 1,132 Major grins
    edited March 22, 2011
    Hope I can continue in this thread
    I went back last night and shot a few more of these guys. I was trying to drag the shutter a bit, and also wanted to throw some red backlighting into the mix. Spent a lot of time aiming the SB-800 at the little windows on the 600's. Think it might be time to look into radio triggers. Not super thrilled, but I think I have some ideas of what to do differently next time. Any comments or suggestions? Thanks for looking.


    Generally, speaking, I had an SB-600 on the right, left, and a red one behind. Of course, not every flash fired for every exposure since the windows were blocked or not aimed quite right. The red was eventually set to full power manual, the right and left were set to TTL but I think -1 and -2.7 for most of the shots. Some shots might have differed a bit.

    ISO 800, f4, Either 1/30th or 1/250 of a second. If you see blur, then it was 1/30th. :D

    <DL style="WIDTH: 810px" id=attachment_2425 class="wp-caption alignnone"><DT class=wp-caption-dt>700_9950-800x532.jpg</DT><DD class=wp-caption-dd>Shot with just 2 SB-600's on either side of the guy.</DD></DL>
    <DL style="WIDTH: 810px" id=attachment_2423 class="wp-caption alignnone"><DT class=wp-caption-dt>700_0023-800x532.jpg</DT><DD class=wp-caption-dd>Not fully satisfied, but probably one fo the better ones. I'm pretty sure the left flash didn't fire for this one.</DD></DL>
    Overall it was a learning experience and I"m not that thrilled with them. Maybe next time.
    <DL style="WIDTH: 675px" id=attachment_2422 class="wp-caption alignnone"><DT class=wp-caption-dt>700_0003.jpg</DT></DL>
    <DL style="WIDTH: 810px" id=attachment_2424 class="wp-caption alignnone"><DT class=wp-caption-dt>700_0045-800x532.jpg</DT><DD class=wp-caption-dd>They seem to want a group pose at the end before they go home. . . For this one, I set the flashes to manual, 1/250 F6.7@ISO800</DD></DL>
  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited March 22, 2011
    3rd one gave me a thrill!:D I think it'd be worth experimenting on a tighter crop of this one, because the very solid unmoving BG doesn't participate in the action, and in fact I think tends to stop it.

    Neil
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

    http://www.behance.net/brosepix
  • InsuredDisasterInsuredDisaster Registered Users Posts: 1,132 Major grins
    edited March 23, 2011
    NeilL wrote: »
    3rd one gave me a thrill!:D I think it'd be worth experimenting on a tighter crop of this one, because the very solid unmoving BG doesn't participate in the action, and in fact I think tends to stop it.

    Neil


    Ok, thanks for the suggestion. Does this work a bit better?

    700_00031.jpg
  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited March 23, 2011
    Yes, I do believe so! It's kind of a unique shot.

    Neil
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

    http://www.behance.net/brosepix
  • InsuredDisasterInsuredDisaster Registered Users Posts: 1,132 Major grins
    edited March 26, 2011
    Thank you Neil, I appreciate the feedback and suggestion!
  • InsuredDisasterInsuredDisaster Registered Users Posts: 1,132 Major grins
    edited March 26, 2011
    Alrighty, this is probably close to the last, if not the last of my series of Chinese break dancers. I'm probably not going to get any more opportunities before I return back to the USA (and can shoot skateboarders again haha!) I hope that you enjoy these shots. I for the most part enjoyed making and playing with the lights and all that, but this last round was a bit dissappointing.

    I got 6 YN-04 radio triggers from the Chinese company Yongnuo and two of the transmitters. I figured that it would be good to have a backup. Another benefit of having a second transmitter is that I can set up a shot with my digital camera and then easily shoot everything with a film camera. Perhaps a bit odd, but after all, didn't they make polaroid film backs for many film cameras? The verdict is still out on the radio triggers. They work most of the time, and can keep up with 6 FPS or so (in quick tests, but didn't try this in the real world) but at the same time, sometimes I think they'll just check out for a bit and maybe one flash will shoot but others won't. It is fairly annoying but oh well. Nikon's CLS system is more reliable, but also more limited. Anyway, I don't want to write an equipment review here. . .

    The reason that this most recent shoot was dissappointing was that while the equipment was largely ready to go, the dancers were just not working the camera this night. Stone and JJ (the previous "leaders") were not around and while they keep sending me emails asking when I'm coming back, these guys were not as enthusiastic. Perhaps I've worn out my welcome? They said to shoot, but at the same time, they were not dancing within the lighted area that much, and spent a lot more time than normal sitting around. Oh well. In fact, I packed up after fewer than 40 shots and went home. Only posting one shot here since I didn't really get anything even half decent.
    700_0414-800x532.jpg


    Hopefully you guys haven't gotten bored with this lighting idea but I kept working the red light idea a bit more this round. With the fully manual setup and changing distances, I feel there is a bit of luck to this break dancing thing. Again, looking at skateboarding shots that I've taken, I've seen almost the same shot taken with BW and color film several minutes apart. Skateboarders (the good ones at least) are really consistent. These guys are not though perhaps some cooperation and better communication I would be able to figure out what they are going to do and plan accordingly.I didn't want poses, I wanted to catch them during their dancing.

    Actually 4 lights here. Of course, at the foot of the guy I've got the red gelled light. But this time I wanted to try for a color contrast as well, so I put a blue light to camera right. It was a bit underpowered at 1/8 power or whatever I had it on, so I added a CTO gelled light (camera WB is set on tungsten) These two lights were right next to each other. And for a bit of facial illumination there is another CTO light. Can't really tell you about the relative power since I cant remember much, and the distance changed a lot from shot to shot. A quick note about the red light through: one of the dancers on break just sat down on front of it, so it pretty much killed the red light for the shot.

    ISO 400, Shutter 1/60th, Aperture f4. I was going for a bit of motion in the shots, but that didn't work out so well. The university turned off all the lights rather early so it was pretty dark. I think all of the light in the photo was from the flashes, hence the lack of subject motion.


    Anyway, thanks for looking. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.
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