Is there an "unlike" button?

anonymouscuban · November 15, 2014

As many of you are aware, I've been contracted to shoot all the business headshots for the company that I work for. The last batch was for 4 VPs from our international business units. I've been batting 1000 so far... well, until this lady.

Her admin assistance let me know on Friday that she "wasn't happy" with any of the shots in her proof gallery. In the email, she attached a very underexposed photo of the lady, against a dry erase board, and asked if I could "retouch" it instead. I politely declined and asked that instead, can be more specific about what she did not like about the photos. And that maybe I can "fix" things in post or re-shoot her next time she is in town. This was Friday so haven't heard back.

I decided to process and retouch a shot which I will send to her on Monday to see if maybe she'll like it.

What do you all think of this shot. Is there anything that stands out to you that is objectionable? She looked quite rough before the retouch. Tired, red eyes, hair was quite frizzed out. She looked as one would expect to look after traveling across the globe and going to one meeting after another since arrival.

Annette-Sample%20Edit-2-X2.jpg

Sam · November 15, 2014

Alex,

I think your in deep. I hope you are wearing your hip boots.

I have taken what I think is a perfectly fine image a woman, (friends) casual shot and shown on the camera LCD only to hear no!...No......it's terrible!

They can not articulate what "terrible" is, but they know it when they see it.

Now as to your image..................not to be cruel but it looks like she has uneven skin. It appears like numerous small blotches rather than freckles. And yes she looks a little rough.

Good luck...........you can't win them all.:D

Sam

anonymouscuban · November 15, 2014

Sam,

Yeah. I think this may be one of the folks that just don't like the way they look in photos... EVER. I will try my best, within limits to please her.

As far as her skin... it's pretty bad. Her skin is covered in what appear to be liver spots. They're way too big to be freckles. It makes doing any type of retouch very difficult because it ends up removing them and I don't want to make things worse by offending her some how.

Luckily the gal that is in charge of all of this in HR has already told me not to break my neck trying to please this woman. She said the photos are fine... that they look like her. Not much I can do to change that.

puzzledpaul · November 16, 2014

Sam wrote: »

They can not articulate what "terrible" is, but they know it when they see it.

Yep, with 2 daughters (in late 20s) + mrs pp. I've also come across this ... on the (relatively) few times I've pointed a cam in their direction

Pic looks fine to me ... the fact that it's not always possible to make silk purses out of ... well, you know the rest ... isn't the fault of the snapper, imo.

They should accept what they are / have got.

pp

jonh68 · November 16, 2014

I think this is a case of someone who is hypercritical. It reminds me of the test done where women were asked to describe themselves to a sketch artist and then someone else described the person to the sketch artist. Two different portraits were sketched out.

Hackbone · November 16, 2014

She is sitting very flat and the head is a tad odd in relation to her body. Can you ever so slightly tip the image to the viewers left?
She has a wide nose and a higher perspective would have helped and more shadow (higher light ratio) would lessen the broadness of the nose.

Here is a must program for portrait photographers esp when used sparingly. Do it on a layer so you can erase the effects you do not want and then adjust the opacity to lessen the effects you do want.

http://imagenomic.com/pt.aspx

lifeinfocus · November 16, 2014

I do very little portrait work so not an expert. But has been mentioned above there are tools available to help with skin issues. Just to see if it work on this photo, I copied the above image and edited it using Portrait Professional. Results came out nice. The key with that tool and I would suspect others is to limit the use of the controls available.

If you would a copy of the results, let me know.

Phil

kdog · November 16, 2014

lifeinfocus wrote: »

I copied the above image and edited it using Portrait Professional. Results came out nice.

I did too and it came out really well. The latest version of PP really does a great job in evening out coloration of skin like that.

AlexShark · November 16, 2014

She doesn't look happy, and this can't be fixed. She looks tired and annoyed. And she probably is. This is not about the skin tones.
Reshoot, and talk to her before the shoot. Buy her coffee. Have a pleasant conversation. Then shoot.

jmphotocraft · November 16, 2014

It's not your fault. Maybe take the image they provided against the whiteboard, and see if she will work with you to recreate it? Point out what you think works in that photo, and ask what she likes about the photo, and go for a shot with all those things in it?

This image is not good but not because of anything you did. In addition to what has already been said, I don't like her eye makeup.

Glort · November 17, 2014

AlexShark wrote: »

She doesn't look happy, and this can't be fixed. She looks tired and annoyed. And she probably is. This is not about the skin tones.

This would be my assesment as well.
She also from this one pic gives me the impression she may be one of those people that is never happy.
For all I know she may be the life of every party but it's not the impression I get from this one image.

Some people are pre disposed to not looking good in pics. They have the attitude " I don't look good in pictures" and that pretty much gaurantees they won't. These people are great to use the cheapest, crappiest Kit lens you can find on them. The less detail, less contrast, softer they look the better!
Why we as shooters want to use the best quality glass that brings out every skin pore and imperfection in a person, I'll be buggered if I know.

You are never going to please everyone no matter how good a job you do.

Tinstafl · November 17, 2014

I thought not happy with life right then. No way to make it look good if that is what she is portraying.

Mitchell · November 17, 2014

Alex, she looks tired and unhappy here. No photoshop will help this. I suspect she will feel the same way about any headshot. I suspect that is why she prefers a shot with some more distance with her at the whiteboard.

jmphotocraft · November 17, 2014

I suppose I'm too late, but I would not even show this to her. It will just make her even more sad and unhappy with the portrait process in general. Again, not your fault.

anonymouscuban · November 17, 2014

Agreed guys. I'm going to offer a reshoot and will suggest that we do it at a time where she is more relaxed and are allowed more time to shoot.

Qarik · November 17, 2014

yeah without seeing the before shot, I can immediately say that my attention is drawn to her skin. it is very blotchy and shiny in some areas. You can reshoot of course but I don't know if that is going to help her skin unless she has "makeup" done. I would simply present to her a more retouched photo next time (reshoot or otherwise). Who really cares if she has better skin in her photo then in real life? It's not like this is some kind of photo-journalism. (it's basically like she had good MU artist)

ian408 · November 17, 2014

If you get a chance to shoot again, try and get your shots and when you think you have a couple of good ones, tell her you think you've got it but shoot a couple of safety shots "just in case". I'm guessing the end of the formal process will help her relax a bit and maybe you'll get that more relaxed look.

StueveShots · November 17, 2014

Alex, I don't know if you are comfortable enough with her to suggest this, but as a blonde of a certain age, she needs to rethink her eye makeup. (I'm a little younger than her, but this is true for me as well.) I'd suggest that she does not do any eye liner under her eyes--mascara only. If she were to have the makeup professionally done, the artist would probably put a very light liner in a neutral color. What she has done ages her tremendously and drags her facial expression down. In addition, she would be better off with a brownish-black mascara. You could tell her that such an approach works better with the camera and lights

You'll also need to be ready to do some lightening of the dark puffiness under her eyes...but I know you are capable of doing that in post very well, and I doubt she is capable of doing it for herself with makeup. Finally, pay some good attention in post to the color of her eyes. Most of us blondes really enjoy our blue or green eyes--if you can do your amazing magic to make her eyes look a bit brighter, I'll bet she'll be excited.

I did just a couple minutes work to remove even a smidge of the eye makeup under her eye, and it really helps. Give it a try.

But, most importantly, your idea to find a way to relax her a bit would be most helpful. She, unfortunately like most people, cannot fake a smile--nothing is smiling in her eyes or in her cheeks. As I teach my actors, only a very few people are blessed with the ability to control the muscles around the eyes enough to "fake" a smile--most have to find a way to feel happy enough to have a full, real smile. In her case, the muscles in her face are simply not relaxing enough to even come close. So use your Cuban charm (all the Cubans I know are charming!--how's that for a stereotype!) and ask her about her life and capture her when she mentions something that makes her smile, even a little, in a relaxed moment.

(One final comment about her skin: I can't see her in person, so I do not know if this is true for her, but some blondes and redheads develop enormous freckles just like this--it's really a case of hundreds of freckles clumping together. Given that she does not use an abundance of foundation, she may embrace this and might be offended if you remove them. It may be best to find a way to soften her skin (especially her pores) without removing the freckles altogether. I guess you'll just have to figure that out when you chat with her.)

Earache · November 17, 2014

Thanks for sharing this project Alex - the discussion is very interesting, even for non-people photogs like me.
I think the "problem" with this image highlights the amazing complexity and expressiveness of the the human face...
To me, the expression is pure annoyance - her lips look pursed, and her eyes say that she needs to get to a Starbucks... fast!

I think StueveShots comments are very on-point and personally, I think the imperfections in her skin don't detract from her appearance - I have imperfect skin too... that's just reality.
Modest smoothing, but not removal of the spots seems a good compromise.

But, my money is on the "Cuban Charm" to fix this whole situation... be sure and show her your recent self-portraits... maybe give her some wallet sized prints.

divamum · November 17, 2014

You were asked to shoot her in 5 minutes when she was tired and rushed. Bottom line, this is what she looked like on the day.

The above suggestions are great, but will take more time than that. Is she willing to invest that much into the shoot? If not, there's not much you can do. My own recommendation would be for her to have her makeup professionally done for camera, but I'm going to guess that isn't an option; if it is, a good make-up artist can address a lot or the suggestions being made before the shutter is even clicked. However, that requires her to want to put some time and effort into it instead of squeezing you in for a few seconds between phone calls.

And I still say she looks like Hermione Norris (particularly as hard-a**ed, icy Ros in Spooks/MI5) - I do a double-take every time this picture shows up on my screen!

TonyCooper · November 18, 2014

I have to admit to being a bit curious about this thread. As I understand it, this is a photograph
of an executive of the company for which you work. It is a photograph that the executive does
not like, a photograph in which she is shown in a most unflattering light, and a photograph that
that has elicited very negative comments about both her appearance and demeanor.

She's been labeled as a person who is probably not a pleasant person to begin with.

Yet, here it is out on the web for anyone to read. Granted, someone would have to know
about Dgrin to find it, but it's not like it's impossible for someone who knows this woman
to find.

What would her reaction be if she found out about this thread? What would your job
future be if she did?

Sam · November 18, 2014

TonyCooper wrote: »

I have to admit to being a bit curious about this thread. As I understand it, this is a photograph
of an executive of the company for which you work. It is a photograph that the executive does
not like, a photograph in which she is shown in a most unflattering light, and a photograph that
that has elicited very negative comments about both her appearance and demeanor.

She's been labeled as a person who is probably not a pleasant person to begin with.

Yet, here it is out on the web for anyone to read. Granted, someone would have to know
about Dgrin to find it, but it's not like it's impossible for someone who knows this woman
to find.

What would her reaction be if she found out about this thread? What would your job
future be if she did?

Tony,

While you make some valid points please note most (mine for sure) are not intended to be a personal
attack upon this executive, but a truthful observation to help the OP with this delicate situation.

Sam

Foques · November 18, 2014

this forum is for pros, semi-pros and spirited enthusiasts to share their work, ask for opinion and seek and further support.
As far as i'm concerned, OP is seeking an advice as to how to improve on the situation.
I can't say I know of any manager or executive who would penalize anyone for seeking opinion of their peers on a subject they're concerned about.

TonyCooper · November 18, 2014

Foques wrote: »

this forum is for pros, semi-pros and spirited enthusiasts to share their work, ask for opinion and seek and further support.
As far as i'm concerned, OP is seeking an advice as to how to improve on the situation.
I can't say I know of any manager or executive who would penalize anyone for seeking opinion of their peers on a subject they're concerned about.

It's not what this forum is about. My point is what the executive might think if
anyone would bring the comments to her attention.

What would she think about the HR person in this comment: "Luckily the gal that is in charge of all of this in HR has already told me not to break my neck trying to please this woman. She said the photos are fine... that they look like her."

If you have never met an executive who would react badly to being publicly
dissected as this one has, then you haven't met many executives. If you haven't
met any women who wouldn't like people talking about what a bad make-up job
she does, you haven't met many women. We already know the woman doesn't
like her photograph, so there is vanity issue at play.

How would you feel about comments like the ones that have appeared in
this thread made about your wife?

Foques · November 18, 2014

TonyCooper wrote: »

How would you feel about comments like the ones that have appeared in
this thread made about your wife?

I have a deal with Alex.. so I will not reply to the unquoted..stuff.

as to the quoted.. that would remind me why I went through with a divorce.

anonymouscuban · November 19, 2014

WOW. Never expected for this post to blow up like this. Lots of great information shared, a few plot twists, a debate... this post has everything.

Thanks for all the helpful feedback. So I got some feedback about the photos and you guys were right. She just doesn't like the way she looks in the photos. She said she looks very tired and stressed. I think we all agree. So a reshoot is in order. I recommended that when reshoot, that we do it early in the morning when she's fresh and just put together and that we have at least 30 minutes of free time to work together to get the shot.

Again, appreciate all the help on this thread... even from Tony. He brought up some valid points, although I'm not too concerned myself. That said, we should always consider how the subject of our photos will perceive their photo being posted on the internet and the comments that are made. I would never post something like this anywhere else but Dgrin. All of you guys are always so professional with your comments and advice.

Thanks again all.

Tinstafl · November 19, 2014

I would delink the picture. It had been discussed so it might be a good thing to do.

Is there an "unlike" button?

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