Feature Requests

Allen · December 11, 2014

LOOKS LIKE SMUG HAS CUT OFF ANY DISCUSSION ON ANY FEATURE REQUEST.
THE FEATURE REQUEST FORUM IS BASICALLY TOAST NOW.
Good luck finding ANYTHING in the UserVoice black hole.

Not allowing more votes is really a problem now. It's like Smug does not want see a lot of votes.

WinsomeWorks · December 13, 2014

I don't know, Allen-- I tried posting in the Feature Request, & was able... unless that's not the one you're talking about. Unfortunately, my post just says "needs deleting" because it does!! (Oddly, our "Edit" button says Edit / Delete when you hover, but no way no how could I find a way to delete it altogether! ) Hoping a mod can get rid of it.

Allen wrote: »

LOOKS LIKE SMUG HAS CUT OFF ANY DISCUSSION ON ANY FEATURE REQUEST.
THE FEATURE REQUEST FORUM IS BASICALLY TOAST NOW.
Good luck finding ANYTHING in the UserVoice black hole.

Not allowing more votes is really a problem now. It's like Smug does not want see a lot of votes.

leftquark · December 19, 2014

Hey Allen,
I understand the concerns with changing something that has been implemented for quite some time. As an Engineer I love data so I thought I would provide some of the reasons why I've decided to close the Feature Request forum here on dgrin and move Feature Requests to UserVoice (SmugMug Feature Request Page, aka SMFRP).

1) Having 2 separate places to post Feature Requests is confusing for most users.
2) SMFRP (also known as UserVoice) was designed to handle Feature Requests. That is its sole purpose. The forums were not. We're going to use the tool that was designed to do Feature Requests best; afterall, we don't hit nails with feathers. SMFRP does a much better job of handling feature requests.
3) The Support Heroes received a large number of complaints that it was confusing to figure out where to post Feature Requests since there were multiple places to ask.
4) The Feature Request forum here had pretty much died. It was averaging 3 new ideas per month. Contrast that to the SMFRP which receives 5 ideas per day.
5) SMFRP has 280 active ideas. The Feature Request had 40, and a number of those were just people bumping the same thread.
6) SMFRP gives us a much better idea of how badly our customers want a feature. The same person bumping a thread on dgrin 40 times is not as useful as seeing that a particular ideas has 1,500 votes on SMFRP.
7) SMFRP can tell us which are the hot ideas. DGrin can't do that.
8) SMFRP can tell us which are the top ideas. DGrin can't do that.
9) Sorting of Feature Requests on DGrin is nearly impossible. The ones that people bump a lot float to the top. Other requests become hidden and are hard to find. This lead to the more vocal users taking away from the voice of the average user.
10) Administrating ideas on DGrin is difficult. Having to move threads, rename subjects, etc, is difficult for site admins. SMFRP ideas can be administered with 1 click.
11) SMFRP gives us the option to email supporters of an idea. The only way to do this on DGrin is if everyone subscribed to the thread.
12) People seem to find SMFRP more easily than DGrin. What is "Digital Grin" they ask? Seeing "SmugMug Feature Requests" is pretty obvious that the site is where they make requests.
13) Search on SMFRP is slightly better than on DGrin. I'll admit not by much and that's only because DGrin's search is horrendous.
14) Users on SMFRP can comment, post links, and have the same discussions that they would have here. Posting images and videos on SMFRP isn't possible but it's not really possible here on DGrin either.
15) The feedback that I've received so far is that people love that there's no only 1 place to go to make requests and review the current requests.

With all this said, I realize there's been some issues with SMFRP:
- Requests are stale. They've been there for years
- There's so many duplicate requests
- Commenting is moderated

Here's what we're doing about it so that we can make SMFRP a much better experience:
1) The Product Team now has a weekly rotation where each Product Manager is responsible for reviewing, approving, and merging ideas.
2) We're actively trying to merge ideas to reduce bloat
3) We're approving ideas and comments in almost real time, at least within 24 hours.
4) We're commenting and providing updated status when requests come in for updates.
5) We met with the experts at UserVoice to understand how to better utilize the site.
6) We're working with the UserVoice team to improve search
7) We're going to add a feature where we can stack 2 ideas against each other to get a better ideas of which features are more important than others.

How does this sound? Good? Bad? I'm a reasonable and a logical guy so if there's something that doesn't make sense or if you have a better idea, I'm all for it.

I'd really love to understand what you don't like about this plan. Feel free to send me a PM about it as well.

AceCo55 · December 19, 2014

I'm sure I'm really thick, but can you tell me where to find this: "Feature Requests to UserVoice (SmugMug Feature Request Page, aka SMFRP)"

Nevermind - had to use different search criteria

http://feedback.smugmug.com/forums/17723-smugmug

leftquark · December 19, 2014

AceCo55 wrote: »

I'm sure I'm really thick, but can you tell me where to find this: "Feature Requests to UserVoice (SmugMug Feature Request Page, aka SMFRP)"
Perhaps a link for me?
Thanks

Excellent question and one that effects both DGrin and the SMFRP (how to find it)!

http://feedback.smugmug.com

We're going to work on making it easier to find at some point in the future.

Jtring · December 30, 2014

Featured Requests

leftquark wrote: »

... I understand the concerns with changing something that has been implemented for quite some time. As an Engineer I love data so I thought I would provide some of the reasons why I've decided to close the Feature Request forum here on dgrin and move Feature Requests to UserVoice (SmugMug Feature Request Page, aka SMFRP). ...

How does this sound? Good? Bad? I'm a reasonable and a logical guy so if there's something that doesn't make sense or if you have a better idea, I'm all for it.

I'd really love to understand what you don't like about this plan. Feel free to send me a PM about it as well.

Having spent some time with UserVoice last week, I’d like to comment on some of this. Mining UserVoice for what’s already there is unquestionably a good idea. Moving forward with it as the only feature request mechanism strikes me as more iffy. Any mechanism can be made to work, but my sense is that it’s not as well-adapted to the task as Aaron’s post suggests. Let me offer three suggestions that might smooth the path.

Suggestion #1: Adjust the interface to allow more space for comment entry and to provide some capability for editing posted comments.

The space for comment entry only shows about 5 lines at a time. There is no way to expand it. The net effect is that comments are generally short. They rarely explain the rationale for a suggestion or allow for much depth in back-and-forth discussions. UserVoice simply needs better mechanics to be the primary home for thoughtful feature request discussions. This poor entry interface is made worse by the situation that there is no way to edit a post that’s already up there short of deleting and re-posting. That’s really bad for those us who have can’t type more than about four sentences without producing a typo or generating an errant fragment.

Suggestion #2: Plan on an on-going moderator’s process of collapsing new posts into older ones. Alternately add another layer between the current categories and individual suggestion entries and have the moderators make assignments as suggestions come in.

All agree the current list has overlaps and bloat that need Heroic intervention. But think about how and why that bloat and overlap got there and what it’s going to take to keep it from reappearing. It's hard to spot overlaps even if you are familiar with the UserVoice interface and with the SmugMug product internals. It’s even harder for a newish user who is still learning the SmugMug-specific vocabulary. Making sense of search results comes down to scanning request titles. Sometimes those titles are great. Sometimes not. And sometimes the content of the requests morphs a bit via the comments. My observation is that a great many request posters are just not finding potential overlaps. In 2014, almost all the requests appear to have votes only from the original poster. A very common usage seems to be to toss an idea out and let “them” (the Heroes) sort it out. That's not laziness. It's about all you can do without being fairly high on learning curve. I don’t see that completely changing. Still, a more transparent way for a new person to identify overlaps would be help some. Adjusting request titles could ease the search-and-identify task, as would the intermediate layer I suggested. None-the-less, I suspect that whatever happens, continued and significant Heroic intervention is going to be needed.

As an example of what can happen, at one point last week I asked Aaron about the status on UserVoice of my favorite concern: editing “Items I Choose” selections in a folder/gallery/page content box. He pointed out that it essentially lives inside the request, “New Smugmug: Need a better way to sort galleries in the "Galleries I Choose" option”. It does if you look at the comments, but you would never know from the title. That thread, by the way, has an unusually rich string of comments, in part because there was a joint discussion on UserVoice and Dgrin, with cross-referencing. (See http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=237479). So that leads me to …

Suggestion #3: Reopen (as if it was ever really closed) the Feature Request forum of Dgrin on an informal basis and let it be an adjunct to UserVoice.

If a user posts a request on UserVoice, there can still be value is talking about here on Dgrin too. The user communities and levels of discussion are different. All should be well if the user provides cross references on both sides.

leftquark · January 7, 2015

Jim, excellent comments. As someone who clearly spent a lot of time on the Feature Requests Page and helped me clean-up a good number of duplicate topics I really value/respect your opinions here. These are all good points and I'll address them in more detail below:

Jtring wrote: »

Suggestion #1: Adjust the interface to allow more space for comment entry and to provide some capability for editing posted comments. The space for comment entry only shows about 5 lines at a time. There is no way to expand it.

I've adjusted the box to show 10 lines instead of 5. It should be easier to type in comments now.

Jtring wrote: »

This poor entry interface is made worse by the situation that there is no way to edit a post that’s already up there short of deleting and re-posting. That’s really bad for those us who have can’t type more than about four sentences without producing a typo or generating an errant fragment.

Currently there's no way for me to enable editing ideas/comments. This is a very annoying limitation of UserVoice and one of their most requested features. I've emailed their Support Team to see what's going on with this. Hopefully we can add this in at some point in the future (when they add it).

Jtring wrote: »

Suggestion #2: Plan on an on-going moderator’s process of collapsing new posts into older ones. Adjusting request titles could ease the search-and-identify task. None-the-less, I suspect that whatever happens, continued and significant Heroic intervention is going to be needed.

We've already started to do this and will continue to do it. We've got a couple of the big ones identified that we'd like to shrink down and as new ideas come in that are duplicates, we're going in and finding all duplicate ideas and trying to merge them up (as you've seen me start to do, with copy pages / templates). It's a ton of work and it's going to take us some time, as you've mentioned, but we completely agree and are starting to work on this.

Additionally, we're also going in and editing titles and updating the actual text of the idea to include better terminology. If we're confusing on an idea we've been emailing the original poster and adding clarification in. If we merge ideas we're bringing in the text from all the ideas that were merged. It should help make it easier to find / know what the idea is actually about.

Jtring wrote: »

Suggestion #3: Reopen (as if it was ever really closed) the Feature Request forum of Dgrin on an informal basis and let it be an adjunct to UserVoice.

You are correct, I've never actually closed it on here.

I'm still debating locking it down but I really wish I could lock it down from New Topics while still allowing discussion on the topics aren't posted. Unfortunately our forum software doesn't allow this so i've had to leave it open.

I'm open to leaving this Feature Request forum open, as long as the understanding is that all new topic ideas must be submitted on, voted on, and given status on the Feature Request Page (UserVoice). We can use the dgrin topics here to discuss the ideas further since, you're correct, UserVoice isn't very good at having discussions (there's no email notifications for replies, no way to quote someone, etc). I don't want dgrin to be a place where people come to look for status and just bump topics. I'm not going to provide it here since the Feature Request Page (UserVoice) is specifically built for that.

So for now I'll leave the Feature Requests forum open but please remember that new ideas need to be submitted to the Feature Request page and not here. The forum here will be for additional discussion of UserVoice topics only.[/B]

Allen, does this satisfy your desire as well?

Allen · January 7, 2015

It's the open immediate discussion that the forum provides that's needed and there's enough experienced visitors to guide the OP.
Some ideas turn out to be nothing but simple customizations or misunderstanding of it. The CSS/HTML can be posted.
Some requests are not needed as the site already has this and it's just a matter of directing the OP.
Some requests generate new or additional ideas.
Visitors can direct the OP to "similar" requests and perhaps the OP's request can be refined.
Screen shots/sketches are very important in describing some requests.
Think of the forum as a pre-screening.
If a "formal request" is appropriate, in a discussion post, the link to it in UserVoice should be noted.

Most of the "bumps" I've seen are looking for any kind of reply from Smug.

leftquark · January 7, 2015

Allen,
I agree that dgrin can be used to support Feature Request discussion but I want to remind you that our statistics show that people find the Feature Requests page almost 50 times more frequently than they find dgrin. The requests are coming in there, people are on there voting, and they're on there commenting. Very few people find their way to dgrin to discuss features and most of them are limited to the same 10 users. We need to listen to our customers and our customers are telling us they want to use UserVoice. If the statistics were reversed and showed that people prefer dgrin I'd be more than happy to shut down UserVoice and move everything here but that's not the case.

Over 13,000 people interacted with UserVoice in the last 30 days while only 10 interacted with this forum. We can't ignore those 12,390 people

leftquark · January 7, 2015

For the record, if you'd like to help me get UserVoice to allow edit comments/ideas, vote over here: http://feedback.uservoice.com/forums/1-general-feedback/suggestions/6357-allow-users-to-edit-their-own-ideas-and-comments

denisegoldberg · January 7, 2015

leftquark wrote: »

For the record, if you'd like to help me get UserVoice to allow edit comments/ideas, vote over here: http://feedback.uservoice.com/forums/1-general-feedback/suggestions/6357-allow-users-to-edit-their-own-ideas-and-comments

Do you really think it's worth the exercise? That entry was posted in 2008! I don't get the feeling that the vendor has any intention of implementing it. Here's a comment from a VP at UserVoice posted in March of last year:

...we hear you. It’s just not at the very top of our priority list, yet.

--- Denise

leftquark · January 8, 2015

denisegoldberg wrote: »

Do you really think it's worth the exercise? That entry was posted in 2008! I don't get the feeling that the vendor has any intention of implementing it.

You're probably right -- but hey, it can't hurt to try? On the other hand, we have been working with UserVoice on a few things so perhaps having an "inside" may help or at least help sway them.

Allen · January 14, 2015

The last time in UserVoice I added a comment to a couple requests, they disappeared into "moderation?".
I have no idea what requests they were now or have ever heard that the comments were approved.
Seems more like a "black hole" now.

leftquark · January 14, 2015

Allen wrote: »

The last time in UserVoice I added a comment to a couple requests, they disappeared into "moderation?".
I have no idea what requests they were now or have ever heard that the comments were approved.
Seems more like a "black hole" now.

Allen, that may have been the case many months ago but for the last 4 months we've been approving comments within 24 hours .... in fact, during most of the day we're approving comments and ideas within 60 minutes or less.

We're making sure that it's not a big black hole. In fact, I've even mentioned it a few times already!

leftquark wrote: »

Here's what we're doing about it so that we can make SMFRP a much better experience:
1) The Product Team now has a weekly rotation where each Product Manager is responsible for reviewing, approving, and merging ideas.
3) We're approving ideas and comments in almost real time, at least within 24 hours.

Allen · January 14, 2015

I just looked through "my feedback" and could not find any indication of where my comments were?

Feature Requests

Comments