Images Don't Expand Fully in Lightbox

W.W. Webster · July 13, 2014

This has been bugging me for a long time!

I typically upload images to my SmugMug site sized to 1600px on the long side. However, in the Lightbox they are frequently not displayed to the fullest size provided by the available screen real estate.

Here's a screenshot of an example (at http://smu.gs/WbgRT7):

My screen is 2560px x 1600px. The image is 1600px x 1183px. By my calculation the image is being displayed no greater than around 1250px x 925px. Why is this? As far as I can see there is more than enough margin around the image and nothing about its aspect ratio that appears to prevent it being displayed elegantly at full size.

Is there a bug in the algorithm that determines how large an image will be displayed in the Lightbox, or is there something I just don't understand about how the Lightbox works?

phototristan · July 13, 2014

Hi,

Can you please write us at the helpdesk (link below) with a link to the image? We will take a look and let you know.

Best Regards,

Allen · July 13, 2014

Your photos from that page fill my screen, all the up including "original".
24" monitor

W.W. Webster · July 13, 2014

phototristan wrote: »

Can you please write us at the helpdesk (link below) with a link to the image? We will take a look and let you know.

OK, if I must (sighs), but they're so tedious to deal with I thought I'd try here first!

W.W. Webster · July 13, 2014

Allen wrote: »

Your photos from that page fill my screen, all the up including "original".
24" monitor

Thanks for the feedback Allen.

It's always the "/A" version that is displayed on my screen, which is presumably the largest that will fit. The user shouldn't need to select the version to be displayed, should s/he?

thenickdude · July 13, 2014

It looks like SmugMug don't bother generating an X3 display size, since your Original is precisely X3 sized anyway. The problem with that is that Original size images aren't eligible for automatic display in /A size, X3 is the largest size that will be considered there (and you don't have an X3 size).

Upload larger originals to enable the generation of X3 images.

W.W. Webster · July 13, 2014

thenickdude wrote: »

Upload larger originals to enable the generation of X3 images.

Mmmm. So "original" is not a display option? Why not? Has no one submitted a use case - which Baldy says is what drives functionality these days?

I have seen examples from my archive which have been displayed in full size, but identifying one may take a while. It will be like finding a needle in a haystack!

thenickdude · July 13, 2014

Original sized images are typically gigantic camera originals. Even if they are reasonable resolutions, they are typically needlessly high JPEG quality which'll cause a poor user experience due to high load times. I don't think SmugMug would enable that in future.

You only need to upload images that are one pixel larger than X3 to enable generation of that size.

W.W. Webster · July 13, 2014

thenickdude wrote: »

You only need to upload images that are one pixel larger than X3 to enable generation of that size.

A reply from Tyree on the help desk and reference to some help documentation seems to corroborate your understanding, Nicholas.

A little experimentation demonstrates that if I make my long side 1601px instead of 1600px (I don't want my images to be too attractive for theft, if only by screen-scraping), then an X3-sized image will be created and always displayed (screen size permitting) irrespective of whether the image height exceeds 1200px which is the other qualification for an X3. As my images are almost always in landscape aspect, sticking to a "1601 rule" to guarantee X3 display is available will be easier than chopping and changing with a "1201 rule" when I export images to SmugMug.

It still seems dumb to me that the original cannot be displayed if screen space allows, as there is nothing to generate - the image is sitting there available for display! Shouldn't that be the first test?

There may be an ulterior motive for this, however, in that there appears to be some little-known commercial rule at play (deeply nested in the help text) that also considers what type of SmugMug plan one is on ("Power" for me) and may limit the maximum display size based on this. But this doesn't seem to limit me to X2 display as a Power user based on my experiment, although YMMV.

I wish this stuff was more transparent. Even Tyree used the expression "it appears" in providing his understanding in his response to me.

W.W. Webster · July 14, 2014

W.W. Webster wrote: »

Even Tyree used the expression "it appears" in providing his understanding in his response to me.

Just when I'm thinking I'm on top of this (as unsatisfactory as the position might be), I'm sure there's still something not quite right.

While replacing a 1600px-wide image which is less than 1201px high with one 1601px wide will ensure an X3 image will be displayed, such an image may already be being displayed fully 1600px wide , i.e. as X3.

An example is this image which is only 936px high but displays fully 1600px wide. That must already be an X3 image, surely, even though it doesn't meet the requirement. Drives me mad!

dennismullen · July 14, 2014

No display size is wider than 1600
I have been using smugmug for years and have always had nice full screen X3 sizes by making a standard height of 1080 pixels.
I have many 1920 x 1080 pictures and they always displayed edge to edge on my 1920 x 1200 monitor. Now they display as a smaller X2 size.

I put frames around many of my 3 x 2 aspect ratio pictures and make them with a height of 1080 pixels.
This causes the aspect ratio to change and they end up 1593 x 1080. So now they only display at the X2 size.

The basic problem is smugmug has stopped using the Original size as one of the sizes when it generates a picture for the lightbox.
If you choose Fill as a size choice in lightbox it will not choose Original size either, even though it would fit in my case.

An Original Size picture with a width of greater than 1600 is fixed at 1600 and the height is reduced to a smaller size to keep the aspect ratio.
This means the largest display copy for a 1920 x 1080 picture is only 1600 x 900.

If a picture is less then 1600 wide it will be displayed at the X2 vertical size of only 960 high unless it is over 1200 to reach the X3 size.
On a common 1920 x 1200 monitor one way the height is too small, the other it is too large.

In the full screen slideshow these small compressed sizes are stretched back to the original size.
The "Original Size" is no longer used as a display size.

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=242979

"The nine sizes of smugmug
Most photo sharing sites shrink your originals to save space. Not us.
With SmugMug, you get to keep every pixel forever and show them as big as your screen will allow."

Size%20Chart.jpg

W.W. Webster · July 14, 2014

Thanks for your comments, Dennis. My dialogue on this with the Heroes is ongoing, and there is an indication they might be prepared to refer it to the engineers for an authoritative opinion.

The established wisdom is that unless the width of a source image ('original') is at least 1601px and/or its height is at least 1201px, an X3-size display image will not be generated and therefore cannot be displayed. I have reloaded all the images in the gallery containing the image I used as an example with widths of 1601px, and all now display correctly on my 2560px-wide display (see the gallery here).

What cannot be explained is why, presently, many of my 1600px-wide and < 1200px-high originals in other galleries are already displaying 1600px wide while others do not (height not being a factor in whether X3 displays will fit on my screen). The result of this is that when a visitor to my site browses through a gallery in the Lightbox on a large (e.g. 2560px) screen, the image displayed will jump between X3 and X2 sizing, which is incredibly annoying.

Interestingly, this gallery on my site, which is accessed from a menu link so it open directly in the Lightbox, displays all images in X3 size even though every original is 1600px x 1173px - which, in theory should not be generating X3 display images, although I'm pleased they do!

CWSkopec · July 16, 2014

W.W. Webster, are you still seeing this issue when you upload an original at 1600px wide? I've been trying to recreate the problem you've seen and I'm unable to. Whenever I have a gallery set to allow X3 or Originals as the max size and I upload images that are 1600px wide, I see an X3 size generated that's pretty much identical to the Original. That's the behavior I would personally expect to see, as others have pointed out in this thread, we won't automatically show your original in lightbox even if it's the same size as an X3 display copy.

I'm not saying that there wasn't an issue in the past with this, I'm just wondering if it's still happening on new uploads for you or if by chance we fixed it along the way and that's why I'm not able to see it.

And out of curiosity, when you upload to a new gallery, is it set to allow X3 or Original display copies prior to the upload? Or is that something you tend to adjust after uploading some images?

W.W. Webster · July 18, 2014

CWSkopec wrote: »

Whenever I have a gallery set to allow X3 or Originals as the max size and I upload images that are 1600px wide, I see an X3 size generated that's pretty much identical to the Original.

That's my main point. According to the documentation I've been referred to, an X3 should be generated only if the image is greater than 1600px wide and/or 1200px high. Otherwise the maximum size should be X2. I've demonstrated that X3s are being created, and you appear to be confirming this.

The issue is the X3s are only sometimes being displayed for originals that do not exceed 1600px/1200px.

CWSkopec wrote: »

And out of curiosity, when you upload to a new gallery, is it set to allow X3 or Original display copies prior to the upload? Or is that something you tend to adjust after uploading some images?

They are set up as "Original" by default.

Interesting, isn't it, that even if 'Original' is selected as the maximum display size for a gallery, SmugMug tells us it won't display it in original size! What's that about? Why are we given an option that won't be observed?

This is a mess. Even the Help folks have no idea what's going on.

W.W. Webster · July 25, 2014

Was something changed overnight? I think so! Was there an announcement anywhere?

CWSkopec · July 25, 2014

W.W. Webster wrote: »

Was something changed overnight? I think so! Was there an announcement anywhere?

I'm not aware of any changes that went out overnight (or in the past couple of days) that would have affected the generation of display copies. Are you seeing an improvement? Or has you seen it get worse?

W.W. Webster wrote: »

That's my main point. According to the documentation I've been referred to, an X3 should be generated only if the image is greater than 1600px wide and/or 1200px high. Otherwise the maximum size should be X2. I've demonstrated that X3s are being created, and you appear to be confirming this.

The issue is the X3s are only sometimes being displayed for originals that do not exceed 1600px/1200px.

They are set up as "Original" by default.

Interesting, isn't it, that even if 'Original' is selected as the maximum display size for a gallery, SmugMug tells us it won't display it in original size! What's that about? Why are we given an option that won't be observed?

This is a mess. Even the Help folks have no idea what's going on.

As thenickdude pointed out, the majority of uploaded originals are quite large. If the lightbox showed that original size automatically, it would degrade the viewing experience with long download times for each image. I think the real problem is that some of your images didn't have their X3 sizes. I can't replicate that problem so I'm hoping that's the change you saw today.

W.W. Webster · July 26, 2014

CWSkopec wrote: »

I'm not aware of any changes that went out overnight (or in the past couple of days) that would have affected the generation of display copies. Are you seeing an improvement? Or has you seen it get worse?

I'm now seeing my X3 display images in portrait aspect being displayed right to the top and bottom edges of the browser window on my 2560px x 1600px (30" Cinema) display. This has not previously been the case - a signifacant margin was left. In my experience, your engineers seldom tell you of changes they have implemented unless they are part of a major release.

Just because you haven't been told, doesn't mean nothing changed. Would you kindly ask and confirm here?

CWSkopec wrote: »

As thenickdude pointed out, the majority of uploaded originals are quite large. If the lightbox showed that original size automatically, it would degrade the viewing experience with long download times for each image. I think the real problem is that some of your images didn't have their X3 sizes. I can't replicate that problem so I'm hoping that's the change you saw today.

I understand that rationale. But why, then, do the gallery settings include a maximum size for display option of "original"?

dennismullen · July 26, 2014

W.W. Webster wrote: »

I'm now seeing my X3 display images in portrait aspect being displayed right to the top and bottom edges of the browser window on my 2560px x 1600px (30" Cinema) display. This has not previously been the case - a signifacant margin was left. In my experience, your engineers seldom tell you of changes they have implemented unless they are part of a major release.

Just because you haven't been told, doesn't mean nothing changed. Would you kindly ask and confirm here?

I understand that rationale. But why, then, do the gallery settings include a maximum size for display option of "original"?

My 1920x 1080 pictures are displaying at full size now!!!

I knew if I complained for a couple of years they would do something about it.

Cheers,

CWSkopec · July 28, 2014

W.W. Webster wrote: »

I'm now seeing my X3 display images in portrait aspect being displayed right to the top and bottom edges of the browser window on my 2560px x 1600px (30" Cinema) display. This has not previously been the case - a signifacant margin was left. In my experience, your engineers seldom tell you of changes they have implemented unless they are part of a major release.

Just because you haven't been told, doesn't mean nothing changed. Would you kindly ask and confirm here?

I'm a part of the QA team (and just updated my profile here in the hopes of clarify that) so I have very good idea of what changes go out. That said, I've looked through our internal records to be sure and I see nothing in the last week or two that would have fixed this issue for you. It's likely that it was fixed before it was fully tracked down as a bug.

In any case I'm glad it's working for you now and I will keep an eye out for any inadvertent changes that make it worse, so please let me know here if you see problems with it in the future.

W.W. Webster wrote: »

I understand that rationale. But why, then, do the gallery settings include a maximum size for display option of "original"?

I'm not sure how everyone uses the Original display option, but I use it mostly in galleries I have set up just for family members. When the original option is allowed and right click protection is off my family members can download individual images if they don't want the whole Zip file with all of the images from an event. Without access to the original, family members would only be able to download the X3 which is fine for computer viewing but I would rather they have the full resolution image in case they want to print it.

dennismullen · July 28, 2014

CWSkopec wrote: »

I'm a part of the QA team (and just updated my profile here in the hopes of clarify that) so I have very good idea of what changes go out. That said, I've looked through our internal records to be sure and I see nothing in the last week or two that would have fixed this issue for you. It's likely that it was fixed before it was fully tracked down as a bug.

In any case I'm glad it's working for you now and I will keep an eye out for any inadvertent changes that make it worse, so please let me know here if you see problems with it in the future.

Up until just recently...

An Original Size picture with a width of greater than 1600 was fixed at 1600 and the height was reduced to a smaller size to keep the aspect ratio.
This meant the largest display copy for a 1920 x 1080 picture was only 1600 x 900.

The bug report was here but ignored since November 17th 2013 ...

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=242979

The X3 size for an 1920 X 1080 Original is still only 1600 X 900 if you post a link in a forum, but light box has just started stretching them like the slideshow does.

Cheers,

Images Don't Expand Fully in Lightbox

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