I took a step back from this for a few days to let my emotions settle down so that I could objectively assess the issue.
We're all really passionate about this topic and I really appreciate that ... there's a lot of emotions here and we all must stay level headed so we can come up with a solution that pleases everyone. Anything, especially an online forum, should never make people this upset and I hate that it had to come while here at dgrin.
I have in this thread repeatedly asked questions with regard to SmugMug/Dgrin's position on these moral (good faith) issues. Not one reply was issued to address any of them.
My understanding of your posts, above, were that you asked us to look into the legal issues with what was going on. Because of the technical nature of what they were doing, there were no legal actions that we could take. We really wished there were so we could have done something more. This is the first time I've heard you express the moral/ethical issues.
It is my conclusion that SmugMug/Dgrin has shown very poor moral (good faith) character in dealing with, not only this particular instance, but previous similar ones as well.
I believe that the DGrin moderators/admins handled this situation exceptionally. This is a very emotional topic with a lot of strong opinions and not once did they waiver in their ability to respond thoughtfully, courteously, respectfully, and with true intent to solve the problem. Ian, Richard, David, and the others who chimed in made their best effort to rectify a very difficult situation. As Ian mentioned, a lot of work went on behind the scenes that we didn't post/discuss separately that went into trying to rectify the situation. I know they'll continue to be exemplary moderators into the future, especially after how they handled this.
Baldy, the owner was notified of the issue, and CHOSE NOT TO RESPOND!
Over the years Baldy and his staff have employed a number of people to administer and run dgrin. I was hired, for example, to be the DGrin admin, amongst other duties. We have SmugMug Support Heroes monitoring certain dgrin forums and we have moderators who monitor the rest. There's a reason why we have a staff team and running to Baldy looking for an answer would have changed nothing. The moderators attempted to find a solution and when they couldn't, they contacted me, at which point we began taking further action.
The common tactic, to hope the issue just dies and goes away, apparently has once again worked for SmugMug/Dgrin. This is a calculated response from SmugMug/Dgrin's owners and management. To put the interest of SmugMug/Dgrin BEFORE it's members interest.
This is incorrect and untrue. The moment the moderators were made aware of this they began discussions into what could be done about it. Once they had exhausted their resources they turned to me. SmugMug immediately began looking into it and started working on a number of solutions. Additionally we have tools in place on SmugMug to help prevent this from happening: which include all of our industry leading privacy tools, like disabling External Embedding. We're still continuing to implement additional ways to deal with these situations in the future.
In fact, just this week we dealt with another instance of dgrin being copied. We immediately employed several tactics that prevented this from happening. We're being proactive and trying to stay ahead.
Letting the wolves feed on the members legal rights, while SmugMug/Dgrin sits back and let's them feed, stealing all the members images as they wish, and CHOOSING NOT TO NOTIFY Dgrin members of the threat.
You have your own opinions on what considers theft but according to Copyright Law your images were never stolen. If they had, there would have been more that we could have done. Please don't mistake our inability to change the law by saying that we chose not to do anything. The internet is an open place. You personally chose to place your images online and you personally chose to share those images even more publicly than just posting them to a site. Google, and all the other search engines, Facebook when you share your photos there, any hundreds of other websites do the exact same thing that this blogspot site is doing. Do you also expect us to tell you when Google displays your images based on search results?
I'm not quite sure what notifying dgrin members would have looked like ... we would have notified them that the images they posted for people to see were being seen by more people. I'd also like to point you to a thread that I posted in the DGrin Support Forums, which notified users that this was happening, as well as other sites were trying to copy dgrin content. You asked me to do this and I did -- yet I still see complaints when I do.
The moderators and I clearly care about this issue. We've been here the entire time trying to come up with a solution. Please help us by being a part of the solution and not a hindrance.
Had Mr. Wells pursued the actual thieves with the same vigor, he may have been vindicated. He chooses to blame the darkness of night for the disappearance of horses.
If it is on my screen -- it is already in my computer!
This simple fact doesn't seem to leave a dent.
There's nothing further smugmug, dGrin, or Vladimir Putin can do about it.
Comments
We're all really passionate about this topic and I really appreciate that ... there's a lot of emotions here and we all must stay level headed so we can come up with a solution that pleases everyone. Anything, especially an online forum, should never make people this upset and I hate that it had to come while here at dgrin.
My understanding of your posts, above, were that you asked us to look into the legal issues with what was going on. Because of the technical nature of what they were doing, there were no legal actions that we could take. We really wished there were so we could have done something more. This is the first time I've heard you express the moral/ethical issues.
I believe that the DGrin moderators/admins handled this situation exceptionally. This is a very emotional topic with a lot of strong opinions and not once did they waiver in their ability to respond thoughtfully, courteously, respectfully, and with true intent to solve the problem. Ian, Richard, David, and the others who chimed in made their best effort to rectify a very difficult situation. As Ian mentioned, a lot of work went on behind the scenes that we didn't post/discuss separately that went into trying to rectify the situation. I know they'll continue to be exemplary moderators into the future, especially after how they handled this.
Over the years Baldy and his staff have employed a number of people to administer and run dgrin. I was hired, for example, to be the DGrin admin, amongst other duties. We have SmugMug Support Heroes monitoring certain dgrin forums and we have moderators who monitor the rest. There's a reason why we have a staff team and running to Baldy looking for an answer would have changed nothing. The moderators attempted to find a solution and when they couldn't, they contacted me, at which point we began taking further action.
This is incorrect and untrue. The moment the moderators were made aware of this they began discussions into what could be done about it. Once they had exhausted their resources they turned to me. SmugMug immediately began looking into it and started working on a number of solutions. Additionally we have tools in place on SmugMug to help prevent this from happening: which include all of our industry leading privacy tools, like disabling External Embedding. We're still continuing to implement additional ways to deal with these situations in the future.
In fact, just this week we dealt with another instance of dgrin being copied. We immediately employed several tactics that prevented this from happening. We're being proactive and trying to stay ahead.
You have your own opinions on what considers theft but according to Copyright Law your images were never stolen. If they had, there would have been more that we could have done. Please don't mistake our inability to change the law by saying that we chose not to do anything. The internet is an open place. You personally chose to place your images online and you personally chose to share those images even more publicly than just posting them to a site. Google, and all the other search engines, Facebook when you share your photos there, any hundreds of other websites do the exact same thing that this blogspot site is doing. Do you also expect us to tell you when Google displays your images based on search results?
I'm not quite sure what notifying dgrin members would have looked like ... we would have notified them that the images they posted for people to see were being seen by more people. I'd also like to point you to a thread that I posted in the DGrin Support Forums, which notified users that this was happening, as well as other sites were trying to copy dgrin content. You asked me to do this and I did -- yet I still see complaints when I do.
The moderators and I clearly care about this issue. We've been here the entire time trying to come up with a solution. Please help us by being a part of the solution and not a hindrance.
Former SmugMug Product Team
aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
If it is on my screen -- it is already in my computer!
This simple fact doesn't seem to leave a dent.
There's nothing further smugmug, dGrin, or Vladimir Putin can do about it.
Be my guest: Alex Braverman Photography