Add a Disqus Comment Content Block to 'Services'

Soul Gaze Photography · September 29, 2013

For some time there has been a heated debate regarding SmugMug's choice to change how we receive comments. Gone is the freedom to receive anonymous comments. Now visitors are required to either sign-in via Facebook or SmugMug. This is of course limiting and has upset many.

There are some who feel that comment control should be up to the site owners (I agree) and others who see no logic in comments at all. While I understand SmugMug's choice to be due to protection based upon a situation in the past, I also know SmugMug has always been a company about mutually finding solutions to issues and requests.

So, here is my latest idea:

If SmugMug will not allow the freedom to control comments as before via the SmugMug comment platform, then what about a service such as Disqus? SmugMug could implement this (I'm not a code wizard, so good luck!) under 'Services' much like the Wufoo content block. Users would be required to check a box to indicate that they understand that choosing to implement said content block results in removing SmugMug from all liability and that they are fully responsible for content and issues.

The great thing with Disqus is the ability to control every aspect of the comments. You can choose whether or not to allow anonymous comments or to require every commenter to either sign in with a social media account (Facebook, Twitter & Google + too!) or to instantly register with Disqus via name, email and password. Comment moderation sends an email to the site owner where you can moderate (with many options) via a simple to use dashboard. This service also embeds in either light or dark colors and is pretty much awesome.

See it in action via my new Blogger I created tonight to match my SmugMug site and replace my former Wordpress blog that had been in the process of being copied to SmugMug. It's still lacking a few tweaks (and all my content), but you can at least see the comment box 'live'. http://www.soulgazephotography.blogspot.com/2013/09/magic-jinn.html (Update 2015: I have since redesigned my blog and removed discus temporarily.)

Why does it matter? I had created a blog using SmugMug several weeks ago. I didn't like the SmugMug comment box due to the requirement for either Facebook or SmugMug. So I thought I'd be smart and modify a Wufoo content block for comments (see here). Looks great. Works great. One problem - once I start advertising and getting traffic, I will eventually have to pay for comments. Ugh. So Disqus is the best! By the way, you can also EARN MONEY using Disqus. So win-win. :thumb

Point is, if it is possible...please implement this idea. I know many, many Smuggers would be ecstatic.
Thanks! :bow

Darter02 · January 31, 2015

I just heard of this idea for the first time. I too would like to see this implemented.

Soul Gaze Photography · February 2, 2015

Glad you like my idea, thanks!

leftquark · February 4, 2015

Frustrated: I just spent ~30 minutes typing up a response only for dgrin to lose it when I submitted it. Time to re-type, perhaps in a shorter but more to the point version....

I played around with Disqus for a while this morning. While I was initially impressed, I have a few concerns that make it seem like less of a viable option. Here's why:
1) Disqus requires FB, Twitter, G+, or Disqus accounts in order to leave comments. This is almost identical to what SmugMug offers now, with the exception of Twitter, which we don't support. If we added commenting using Twitter would that help?
2) Disqus has an option for anonymous comments but it's so hidden and hard to find that I would argue it really doesn't do anonymous comments. Let me explain...

In order to enable anonymous comments you have to go into your account settings and find "Allow Guest Commenting." It's a very small option mixed in with a number of options. It's hard to find. It isn't obvious that "Guest Commenting" is the same as "Anonymous Commenting" and I had to do a Google Search just to figure that out. How many people will find this setting? Once it's enabled, actually leaving an anonymous comment is almost impossible to find. When you go to leave the comment it asks you to login (G+, FB, Twitter, Disqus). If you don't have an account, it asks for your name. As soon as you put in your name, it asks for email/password. At this point most people would give up because they don't want to create a Disqus account. If they're very astute they'll notice a very small "I'd rather leave a guest comment". Clicking that will allow an anonymous comment. How many people do expect to actually find that little box? I'd imagine very few.

I think a good step to start with would be to add Twitter to the list of account logins for leaving comments. Are there any others that would help cover the spectrum for your visitors? Perhaps Yahoo or Microsoft login?

Soul Gaze Photography · February 4, 2015

leftquark wrote: »

Frustrated: I just spent ~30 minutes typing up a response only for dgrin to lose it when I submitted it. Time to re-type, perhaps in a shorter but more to the point version....

I played around with Disqus for a while this morning. While I was initially impressed, I have a few concerns that make it seem like less of a viable option. Here's why:
1) Disqus requires FB, Twitter, G+, or Disqus accounts in order to leave comments. This is almost identical to what SmugMug offers now, with the exception of Twitter, which we don't support. If we added commenting using Twitter would that help?
2) Disqus has an option for anonymous comments but it's so hidden and hard to find that I would argue it really doesn't do anonymous comments. Let me explain...

In order to enable anonymous comments you have to go into your account settings and find "Allow Guest Commenting." It's a very small option mixed in with a number of options. It's hard to find. It isn't obvious that "Guest Commenting" is the same as "Anonymous Commenting" and I had to do a Google Search just to figure that out. How many people will find this setting? Once it's enabled, actually leaving an anonymous comment is almost impossible to find. When you go to leave the comment it asks you to login (G+, FB, Twitter, Disqus). If you don't have an account, it asks for your name. As soon as you put in your name, it asks for email/password. At this point most people would give up because they don't want to create a Disqus account. If they're very astute they'll notice a very small "I'd rather leave a guest comment". Clicking that will allow an anonymous comment. How many people do expect to actually find that little box? I'd imagine very few.

I think a good step to start with would be to add Twitter to the list of account logins for leaving comments. Are there any others that would help cover the spectrum for your visitors? Perhaps Yahoo or Microsoft login?

Discus may have redesigned since I last utilized it. I think the key complaint for many is that there are many visitors who do not use social media, but do use the internet. It is those such visitors that are unable to comment and find it a turn-off to be required to use a social media login. Smuggers do understand the reasoning regarding spam and security. It's basically a need for a middle ground so that we can again have comments from those who don't have social media or for galleries where we have clients who would like to provide input to a specific image without having to email or message a file name. The instant gratification of commenting on a website you're at is better for them.

leftquark · February 4, 2015

Soul Gaze Photography wrote: »

Discus may have redesigned since I last utilized it. I think the key complaint for many is that there are many visitors who do not use social media, but do use the internet. It is those such visitors that are unable to comment and find it a turn-off to be required to use a social media login. Smuggers do understand the reasoning regarding spam and security. It's basically a need for a middle ground so that we can again have comments from those who don't have social media or for galleries where we have clients who would like to provide input to a specific image without having to email or message a file name. The instant gratification of commenting on a website you're at is better for them.

If Disqus had a better implementation of anonymous commenting it would be much more appealing. As it stands now, I don't think it will solve the problem.

Shinrya · February 4, 2015

The thing is, Disqus is the no 1 tool used by websites and blogs as their commenting system. It's pretty much universally known by those who frequent blog sites. I would argue that it's not a suitable tool to place in people galleries for general photo comments, but for those of us who blog and regrettably use Smugmug to build our blogs, it would be insanely helpful.

I'm starting to think I'll just port all my content off Smugmug over to wordpress just so I can have a decent comments system.

Soul Gaze Photography · February 4, 2015

leftquark wrote: »

If Disqus had a better implementation of anonymous commenting it would be much more appealing. As it stands now, I don't think it will solve the problem.

Agreed, so we keep looking for a solution... :baldy

pilotdave · February 4, 2015

leftquark wrote: »

If Disqus had a better implementation of anonymous commenting it would be much more appealing. As it stands now, I don't think it will solve the problem.

If you want an anonymous commenting system, remove the login requirement. We don't need to add anything new. We just need to remove the problem. Turn anonymous commenting off by default and allow us to turn it on if we want it. Why is this such a big deal? Why did you even bother looking into disqus? If disqus had a better implementation of anonymous commenting, would you really have gone to the trouble of creating a content block instead of just allowing anonymous comments right on smugmug (like you used to)? If a content block vs. an option in the account settings makes a difference, why not create a smugmug anonymous comments content block?

The only difference is what server the comments are stored on. Maybe you can ask Baldy to comment on what the real issue is here. I can only imagine a lawyer suggested this is a way to minimize liability. There's no good "usability" reason for allowing anonymous comments through a 3rd party content block instead of straight in the smugmug comments system. Maybe there's another solution, like required moderation of anonymous comments?

Dave

J Allen · February 5, 2015

pilotdave wrote: »

If you want an anonymous commenting system, remove the login requirement. We don't need to add anything new. We just need to remove the problem. Turn anonymous commenting off by default and allow us to turn it on if we want it. Why is this such a big deal? Why did you even bother looking into disqus? If disqus had a better implementation of anonymous commenting, would you really have gone to the trouble of creating a content block instead of just allowing anonymous comments right on smugmug (like you used to)? If a content block vs. an option in the account settings makes a difference, why not create a smugmug anonymous comments content block?

The only difference is what server the comments are stored on. Maybe you can ask Baldy to comment on what the real issue is here. I can only imagine a lawyer suggested this is a way to minimize liability. There's no good "usability" reason for allowing anonymous comments through a 3rd party content block instead of straight in the smugmug comments system. Maybe there's another solution, like required moderation of anonymous comments?

Dave

leftquark · February 5, 2015

pilotdave wrote: »

I can only imagine a lawyer suggested this is a way to minimize liability.

I'd love to keep this discussion on point and relevant.

pilotdave wrote: »

There's no good "usability" reason for allowing anonymous comments through a 3rd party content block instead of straight in the smugmug comments system. Maybe there's another solution, like required moderation of anonymous comments?

Adding a Content Block that's a small bit of Disqus JavaScript is a much simpler implementation than Engineering this from scratch. It's easier to create. It's easier to QA. And it's quicker to get out. There's so many things we want to do and get out, improve, and add and rebuilding a tool someone else has already conquered could be one such solution. This isn't the first time people have requested Disqus and there's a reason why 3rd-party tools keep coming up: because it could meet the need, if done right.

I understand that some people don't have Social Networks and that doesn't work for them. I'm still trying to understand what "anonymous comments" really are. They still require you to enter your name and email address, so they're not really anonymous.

Do we mean login-free?
I think there's a lot of benefits to having a system in which we know who you are (preferably with some kind of login). We could direct replies to you. We could notify the people that a comment has been added. We could show you which photos/videos/galleries you have commented on. As a photographer, we could give you better stats on who is commenting and how often. All of this drives interaction with your photos, which it sounds like is the problem we're trying to solve.

pilotdave · February 5, 2015

Part of the issue with social media login is that guests don't know what will appear with their comment. Their full name? A link to their fb/g+ page? Their location? Profile picture? If they don't know, they won't leave a comment. Some people wouldn't want their full name appearing and some wouldn't want strangers to be able to find them on social media.

Some visitors might be ok with using fb to comment, but they might only want their first name displayed publicly with no link back to them.

If it was made clear what gets displayed and maybe give visitors some control, they might be more willing to comment.

Dave

photoclick · February 5, 2015

leftquark wrote: »

I'd love to keep this discussion on point and relevant.

Agree. Right on point: what can be simpler that having two options?:

1) Anyone can leave comment (no login required)

2) Login required to leave comment

First option is self explanatory and worked perfectly in "old" smugmug
Second option will enable login requirement and will trigger ALL sign-in modules you have already implemented to become active.

Can you or anyone give me a reasonable objection to the above approach? You already have ALL the code written, tested, and implemented:) Modifications are mostly in how you present the options via UI in the account settings (or individual gallery settings). Seriously, it is not a revolutionary project.

However, if you do not want to implementing such an approach it is reasonable that people are trying to understand "why?". From the technical and logical point of view the above approach is perfect. User named "pilotdave" simply stating the reason why such an aproach has not been implemented yet:

I can only imagine a lawyer suggested this is a way to minimize liability.

leftquark · February 6, 2015

photoclick wrote: »

1) Anyone can leave comment (no login required)

2) Login required to leave comment

First option is self explanatory and worked perfectly in "old" smugmug
Second option will enable login requirement and will trigger ALL sign-in modules you have already implemented to become active.

Can you or anyone give me a reasonable objection to the above approach?

This sounds reasonable to me -- although I'm not the final decision maker in this. I can mention that we have a hard time with adding even more Account/Gallery settings. They're pretty bloated already and we're reluctant to add more

photoclick wrote: »

You already have ALL the code written, tested, and implemented:) Modifications are mostly in how you present the options via UI in the account settings (or individual gallery settings). Seriously, it is not a revolutionary project.

You are correct, it's not revolutionary and it would be fairly easy to implement, however, the code between Old SmugMug and New SmugMug is not identical and it's not as simple as copy/paste, as much as we all wish it were. We also don't believe in putting out updates without testing it first and it would need to go through a full QA test (again, not overly complex but I wanted to mention it because it's more than just a 1 or 2 day task).

photoclick wrote: »

1) Anyone can leave comment (no login required)
First option is self explanatory and worked perfectly in "old" smugmug

Would people object if it still asked for name/email address?

denisegoldberg · February 6, 2015

leftquark wrote: »

Would people object if it still asked for name/email address?

I have no problem with asking for a name - after all that is text and can be whatever the poster desires.

I do not want an email address to be required. And if one is entered I do not want it shown in the comment block for the public but I would like access to it as the site owner.

--- Denise

Soul Gaze Photography · February 6, 2015

Technically, comments don't have to be anonymous. What we need is a solution for the following visitors:

1. Visitors who don't use social media need a way to comment without being required to have social media. Also, a way to ensure those who DO use social media can comment without worry that it will affect privacy or provide direct profile access (despite the fact that they can be found via search).
2. Visitors who don't want to create yet another account somewhere just to be able to leave a quick comment. My own mother is in this category.
3. The few who would prefer to comment anonymously so that they are able to speak freely. To prevent 'spam' or inapropriate comments, these type of comments should 100% require owner moderation. All should ideally require moderation and honesty that would be the easiest solution for all. If there is no third-party option, then requiring all SmugMug members do digitally sign a statement that we are fully responsible for such comments and not SmugMug and are required to moderate should suffice to keep everyone happy and prevent issues for SmugMug. Members should have the ability to turn off comments, moderate comments and control the level of interaction on their site.

leftquark · February 9, 2015

Soul Gaze Photography wrote: »

What we need is a solution for the following visitors:

1. Visitors who don't use social media need a way to comment without being required to have social media.
2. Visitors who don't want to create yet another account somewhere just to be able to leave a quick comment. My own mother is in this category.
3. The few who would prefer to comment anonymously so that they are able to speak freely, … these type of comments should 100% require owner moderation.

Interaction with your photos, including commenting, is one area in which we’re going to improve in the future. We want to make it easier and better for people to engage with and enjoy your photos. We have a lot of ideas on how we can make this happen and you will see the efforts we’re going to take in the future.

Millions, and in some cases billions, of people have Social Media accounts: whether it’s Google, Facebook, Twitter, Yahoo, etc. We don’t support all of them yet and that means there’s room to expand (like adding login with Twitter, or Yahoo). We tried allowing anonymous comments in the past and we’re familiar with all the pitfalls and advantages of it. Because of the scars we’re not planning to allow anonymous comments in the future. The potential for this to be abused, and in some cases had been abused in the past, is not a pleasant experience and we don’t want you to have to go through this frustration. Even on Legacy SmugMug where we allowed login-free comments, we saw comments run rampant with spam and abusive commenters. Nothing saddens us more than hearing that you received a disgusting comment on the photo you took of your newborn baby from “bob@anonymous.com”. That’s something you don’t want to see, even if you were moderating your own comments.

A number of people have made the hypothesis that the reason why your photos don’t receive comments are because of the login requirements; That may be partially true but I have some experience and data that offers another theory: New SmugMug emphasizes your photos and hides the social interaction. Your photo now takes up the majority of the page and the comments box is hidden off the screen. The Collage styles don’t offer any place to comment on a photo. The Lightbox no longer offers an easy way to see/leave comments. These are all things that we can fix while still requiring a login and should help increase interaction with your photos.

We want the social interaction with your photos to be easy and powerful and we think you and your visitors will see the benefit of logging in. It will make the tools and features even better. We’ll make it easy for people to login, recover their password, and leave comments. We’ll make it easy for discussions to continue and thrive and not die after each post. If you give us some time we’ll do a great job of improving interaction with your photos.

Darter02 · February 9, 2015

Cool beans.

Allen · February 9, 2015

You've completely ignored one scenario, families, when one enters one of my passworded galleries with
a password I provide. I CONTROL THAT PW, not some social media site. That PW entry should be sensed
and turn comments on for my whole site.

leftquark · February 9, 2015

Allen wrote: »

You've completely ignored one scenario, families, when one enters one of my passworded galleries with
a password I provide. I CONTROL THAT PW, not some social media site. That PW entry should be sensed
and turn comments on for my whole site.

The only problem is that the gallery password won't tell us who is leaving the comment. We have some great ideas on how we can make the interaction between your photos and your family better that will extend to leaving comments and I think you'll really like it.

Allen · February 9, 2015

leftquark wrote: »

... won't tell us who is leaving the comment. ...

I don't think YOU should have any right to know. I can easily ask my visitors to sign
their name if I want it. After all these are private family photos. Or perhaps a client
that wants absolute security and does not want their identity known. Outside log in
could expose their identity.

leftquark · February 10, 2015

Allen wrote: »

I don't think YOU should have any right to know. I can easily ask my visitors to sign their name if I want it. After all these are private family photos. Or perhaps a client that wants absolute security and does not want their identity known. Outside log in could expose their identity.

Anonymous login, even if the visitor has entered a gallery password, is not something we are going back to, for all of the painful reasons we've experienced in the past. We've got some ideas and things in the works that I think you will all really like the new features. Keeping an open mind and collaborating with us will only help make these features better. After all, everyone expressed doubt on the D800 and now look, it turned out to be one of the best cameras. Keep an open mind with us!

agallia · February 14, 2015

Waiting with an open mind...

DJKennedy · March 9, 2015

If you are going to refuse to give us what we PAID for, and we WE WANT, and what we had BEFORE - then lower your fees to reflect the fact we no longer have a say on what we have on OUR site(s).

leftquark · March 9, 2015

DJKennedy wrote: »

If you are going to refuse to give us what we PAID for, and we WE WANT, and what we had BEFORE - then lower your fees to reflect the fact we no longer have a say on what we have on OUR site(s).

You have some great galleries on your site DJ! Some of those black and white photos are absolutely stunning and the airplane crash photos chilled me -- hopefully everyone aboard came out alive and healthy!

I hope that your site, which has extensive Customization features, a powerful Organizer, beautiful galleries, and a number of ways to upload photos give you control to have your site be the way you want it. There are an infinite number of ways that people can design and customize their sites and I always love seeing the way in which people give a unique touch to their own. You guys amaze me every day with what you can create on SmugMug!

DJKennedy · March 9, 2015

Thank you for your kind comments on my photos - re aircraft accidents: no one died (thankfully), no *serious* injuries.

B&W has started to become my passion to the point I shoot only b&w film (when shooting film), and processed my self at home. I shoot 35mm, 120, 4x5 and now as of recently, 8x10 b&w film.

So far the only way we can no longer customize our sites, is to have the comments section return to the way we wanted them. This has been frustrating me for the last couple years (since we lost it the way we had it) to the point I wonder why i bother to continue using SM. The loss of the comments section the way WE wanted them, is a value loss to me.

StueveShots · April 20, 2015

I want to add my voice in agreement with DJ. The loss of comments (whether it is because of the login requirement or because it is simply not obvious where one comments) is quite disheartening to me and is making me seriously rethink whether to stick with Smugmug. I recently posted two galleries that caused my stats to jump dramatically (into the tens of thousands of hits, which for me is enormous)--and yet there were absolutely no comments posted. The folks looking at the shots were not strangers to me--they were all part of a larger community that I am an active member in, and many took to facebook to send me messages regarding the photos. So why did they leave Smugmug to send me a comment? I presume it is because something is "broken" at Smugmug. Something is either not clear to the casual visitor, or the visitor does not trust Smugmug enough to log in (with their facebook account!).

Please, please fix this! I want my photos to be displayed beautifully, but I also want my visitors to interact with me regarding the photographs. Otherwise, all the fun has gone out of the display process for me. (I'm not a professional, just a very avid enthusiast.) I'll be making my decision whether to move to a new site this summer. It would be an enormous undertaking, but because Smugmug's inattention to social interaction ha simply dragged on and on since new Smugmug emerged, I'm beginning to think it would be worth the effort.

crockny · May 5, 2015

This all seems so unnecessary ... I haven't received one comment since you changed the system. To me it's obvious that requiring a login prevents people from commenting - really, people are busy and don't want to bother with this stuff - I know I don't - when a friend writes her blog and I see something I like and want to comment, I don't because it requires too much effort ...

DJKennedy · May 6, 2015

crockny wrote: »

This all seems so unnecessary ... I haven't received one comment since you changed the system. To me it's obvious that requiring a login prevents people from commenting - really, people are busy and don't want to bother with this stuff - I know I don't - when a friend writes her blog and I see something I like and want to comment, I don't because it requires too much effort ...

Its become clear to me that SM just simply does not care what their paying customers want.

crockny · August 13, 2015

Personally I don't understand why this is such a problem. It was fine before you "fixed" it ... now I get no comments. I'm seriously considering transferring to another host ... NO ONE is going to bother signing in to leave a comment ... I don't do it for other people even when I have a comment I would like to leave. NO ONE has the time for this ... the current situation effectively disallows comments ...

J Allen · August 19, 2015

Originally Posted by uketeecee
In OLD SM there were several comments a day. In new SM (which I went to in 2013) there hasn't been a single comment.
My collector friends have told me they don't wish to bother with a second login just to leave a comment.

Originally Posted by billw
And just to be clear, is the discussion about opening up commenting in password-protected galleries also over? If a member has password-protected galleries and has given the password(s) to certain people (perhaps their clients, perhaps family members who are helping with genealogy research), haven't those people "logged in"? In my case it's genealogy, and I know for sure that gramma and grampa aren't interested in getting FB or G+ accounts - one more thing they don't understand and don't want - just so they can comment on old family photos.

Originally Posted by Allen
I consider visitors that enter a password on my site logged in. They should be able to comment on those
passworded galleries they now have access to. After all, I control that password. I do not control
passwords from any other site.

http://feedback.smugmug.com/forums/17723-smugmug/suggestions/4262376-remove-smugmug-facebook-log-in-requirements-for-co/

Add a Disqus Comment Content Block to 'Services'

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