Going on a Camping Field Trip - Bring SLR, Buy P&S, or None?

astrostu · July 6, 2010

My thesis work is mapping and determining properties of craters on Mars. I applied to a Meteor Crater Field Camp for mid-October and was just notified today that I was selected. Now, I've been there before, and last time I walked around the entire rim and took lots of panoramae. And it may be one of the stops I take my parents on just 3 weeks earlier when I'm there for a conference and they're flying in afterwards to go sight-seeing in the Flagstaff area.

This being a field camp for a week means I'll be camping there (for a week) and will need to bring all my camping gear on the airplane along with clothes, a pillow, boots, etc. All of my camera gear together goes in a fairly large backpack, plus tripod. So I'm trying to figure this out:

a) I've been there before, so I have photos of the crater. Camera stuff would weigh a lot and take up a lot of room and I'm already out of shape to the point that I don't want to be hiking all that stuff plus water everywhere. So do I not bring any camera?

b) Been there, done that, but this field camp will likely offer me opportunities to go in/around the crater that people normally don't get to do, such as possibly hike into the crater (very difficult these days to get permission to do that these days). Investing in a small P&S for events like that would be good and light-weight, even though it wouldn't afford me the opportunities of a SLR.

c) Suck it up and go all out and bring all the gear for those times during the camp when I'd be hitting myself for not bringing it.

I dunno 'bout this one ... what do y'all think?

BradfordBenn · July 6, 2010

I would think a P&S would be good. The level and quality is up to you, but I have faced the same conundrum on lots of work trips and I have never regretted bringing my P&S. I have regretted the hassle of brining my XTi. Also depending on how much unimproved camping you might want spare batteries or solar charger.

ziggy53 · July 6, 2010

astrostu wrote: »

... b) Been there, done that, but this field camp will likely offer me opportunities to go in/around the crater that people normally don't get to do, such as possibly hike into the crater (very difficult these days to get permission to do that these days). ...

Take the dRebel (XT/350D) but pick up a better standard zoom; maybe do a rental of the EF-S 17-55mm, f2.8 IS USM. If you don't take a dSLR for that opportunity I think you might regret it. I certainly would have regrets if I didn't have something suitable. It'll also be a better choice to document the folks.

A small P&S is a good thing to have as well but a super-zoom P&S might make a better complimentary camera to the dSLR.

Zerodog · July 6, 2010

If you were to go P&S go with something like the Canon S90. It is pocket size so you won't even notice it for weight or space it takes up. In bright light you won't suffer too much with it. The thing really does an amazing job for a P&S and especially at it's size. In fact, I think it does an amazing job for anything not moving fast. Go even lighter and get a gorillapod instead of a full tripod.

If you are really leaning toward your DSLR get yourself a nice wide prime lens. It will be small and light compared to any zoom and produce even better pictures. Something toward 20ish mm.

Art Scott · July 6, 2010

ziggy53 wrote: »

Take the dRebel (XT/350D) but pick up a better standard zoom; maybe do a rental of the EF-S 17-55mm, f2.8 IS USM. If you don't take a dSLR for that opportunity I think you might regret it. I certainly would have regrets if I didn't have something suitable. It'll also be a better choice to document the folks.

A small P&S is a good thing to have as well but a super-zoom P&S might make a better complimentary camera to the dSLR.

I'll have to agree with Ziggy here..............

I'd leave clothes behind before leave my dslr behind.........

chrisjohnson · July 7, 2010

This is an airline question. What do you do if they lose your checked luggage? What are the odds?

Personally I choose my sleeping bag and spare clothes every time. This is why I have a P&S - Canon G9 - to fit in my jacket pocket. It takes a very decent snapshot too.

hgernhardtjr · July 7, 2010

This is probably the first time where I disagree with Ziggy and Art. And your potential venture into the crater is something I envy!

Having been to Meteor Crater, I am sure you're well aware of the potential difficulty of any hikes and/or climbs ... and you mentioned being out of shape.

Since you've been on the rim previously and taken photos, I would opt for a quality P&S with decent macro ability and at least "5x" zoom (similar in features to the older model Sony T500 I use and which produces EXCELLENT photographs and HD videos). Such a camera will not affect your balance, is extremely lightweight, is small and easily stowed, and is rapidly deployable. Now, if they are going to helicopter you up and down, that's a different story! BTW, I've been there a few times myself, but never into the crater ... as you said — apart from NASA, a movie crew or two, and some geologic surveys — that is a rare and generally forbidden occurance for the general public.

Oh, FWIW, although not exactly what you are asking, for the naysayers re P&S, dig what can be done with a simple iphone here: http://fstoppers.com/iphone/ Be sure to look at the actual full size photos. Granted, they are using studio lighting, but it only goes to show that if you know what you are doing with your camera, you can make amazing shots with it no matter how limited it may be. So, all things considered, I stand firm in recomending you go with a good P&S.

GadgetRick · July 7, 2010

Art Scott wrote: »

I'd leave clothes behind before leave my dslr behind.........

Now that's a visual I didn't need first thing in the morning!

I think the bigger question is, which camera will you carry with you all of the time? If you'll find yourself leaving your dslr behind, it's sort of a waste to bring it (imo). Since a p&s will fit in a pocket easily, you won't leave that behind. I'd rather have the dslr but, as they say, the best camera is the one you have with you at the time....

NikonsandVstroms · July 8, 2010

If this becomes a regular thing I would look into an Olympus E-620 2 lens kit, the telephoto is smaller than Canon's 18-55 IS and I fit it with 4 lenses covering in 35mm equivalent 18-36 28-84 80-300 and a 70mm macro all in a bag meant for a superzoom P&S.

There are also the m4/3 options now and a EPL-1 is not much more than a LX3 or other high end compact.

Manfr3d · July 8, 2010

If you want to do photography the most lightweight kit would be a
Canon G11 (or G10) and a Monopod with a foot (!!). Thats right, lookie
here what Mr Reichman does with this combo:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/videos/manfrotto685b-video.shtml
(I am tempted to get a setup like this myself)

If however you want to do snapshot type of pictures an S90 Type of P&S seems
to be perfect because it is somewhat smaller.

astrostu · July 8, 2010

I've been getting very mixed replies in general about this on a few forums.

c. People who say bring the SLR are generally suggesting just the Rebel and a small lens (like my cheapo kit 18-55 mm), and they are citing the idea that I may be in some circumstances where I will regret not having the SLR and its capabilities.

b. Folks who say to get a P&S highlight the practicality of it in its weight and volume as well as the general quality of today's P&S cameras, some linking to shots taken with things like iPhones (no, I just have a 1st gen nano and 1st gen Touch). There's also the practicality of packing a tent, sleeping bag, pad, pillow, clothes, etc. AND then the camera stuff and getting that all on a plane and then in a tent.

When I mentioned this to my advisor - who hikes and mountain and volcano climbs like crazy - he said P&S if anythings because that I would actually bring with me. After Day 1 and carrying a camera bag with me all day, I would leave it in the tent for the rest of the week. And GadgetRick above also mentioned this.

In attempting to answer some questions about the event to get a better idea of things, "I don't know" came up a lot. All I know is that we're camping at the Meteor Crater RV park (free wireless!), the field camp is Sunday to Sunday ... and that's all I know. I don't even know the project(s) we'll be doing. I'm running on the assumption that it's going to be effectively a 9-5 type thing "in the field" but "in the field" could mean on the rim, all the way into the crater, just inside the crater, and/or around the ejecta blanket (continuous ejecta blankets generally travel ~1 crater diameter, so the perimeter of that sucker would be very roughly 15 km. And I am not in any way an experienced hiker, though last time I was there I did hike around the rim and I was generally at the front of the group.

I think I am leaning more towards a P&S, if folks couldn't tell from what I said above. The arguments I've read for bringing the SLR (any or all) are mainly that I'll miss stuff, I'll want the versatility, and I could do long exposures at night. No mention of practicality / weight issues. Contrast that with a P&S ... I was glancing through B&H and the Canon A3100, SD9400, SD1300, SD1400, or even the S90 (though I want something cheaper) all weigh around 4-6 ounces. And I do know what P&Ss are capable of, since my first camera was a Canon S30 and they've advanced a bit since then.

In their advice, some people seemed to ignore or not see that I have been there before, three times, and I'll likely be going a fourth time just before the field camp (not on this particular forum, but I wanted to mention it in case some others read this and missed it). I've also done plenty of astrophotography, and I'll be in Flagstaff for a full week just 3 weeks prior to this field camp and will have a much more favorable moon then for astrophotography. In fact, during the field camp, it's a waxing gibbous moon and hence horrible for star trails.

I think at this point, unless anyone can offer a better reason for the SLR other than I may want the versatility while telling me how I can easily manage weight issues in the desert sun for a full day for a full week (and I'm not being sarcastic -- if you can tell me, please let me know!), then I'm going to look into getting a P&S.

Need2Ski · July 9, 2010

Compact P&S cameras certainly have their place. A p & S in the hand is worth two FF cameras in the trunk. Sometimes a dSLR and associated gear is just too big and bulky. Compacts obviously limit control over depth of field and generally aren't great in poor light. But in decent light the depth of field can be an advantage when shooting things like landscapes. And macro capabilities are generally pretty good as well. If this was a trip to take pictures I'd certainly say take your gear but sometimes you have to travel light. Another thing to consider, though based on your comments I don't think you want to spend this much money, is to consider one of the m4/3 cameras from Panasonic or Olympus. Very good image quality with much more control and versatility than small sensor P & S cameras. Not small enough to slip in most pockets but much smaller and lighter than a traditional dSLR.

Jane B. · July 9, 2010

I have not kept up with the small P&S cameras as I have so much trouble holding one steady. But, what has occurred to me is to take BOTH and leave the SLR in the tent unless you are scheduled to go INTO the crater that day. From reading this thread I get the impression that getting INTO the crater is VERY unusual and you would want the most versitility (sp) down there.

Manfr3d · July 9, 2010

I have the feeling that everyone here assumes that picking a P&S over
a DSLR means giving up quality or usability. But this is not necessarily
the case if you pick the right P&S. One that has Av Tv or manual mode
and allows you to shoot raw. If you shoot at low ISO's the images
can even compare with those shot with a medium format digital camera.

But see for yourself: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/kidding.shtml

WillCAD · July 9, 2010

ziggy53 wrote: »

Take the dRebel (XT/350D) but pick up a better standard zoom; maybe do a rental of the EF-S 17-55mm, f2.8 IS USM. If you don't take a dSLR for that opportunity I think you might regret it. I certainly would have regrets if I didn't have something suitable. It'll also be a better choice to document the folks.

A small P&S is a good thing to have as well but a super-zoom P&S might make a better complimentary camera to the dSLR.

Art Scott wrote: »

I'll have to agree with Ziggy here..............

I'd leave clothes behind before leave my dslr behind.........

Ditto. And Ditto again.

Similar questions to this come up all the time on the Disney World message boards I frequent. Folks don't want to be saddled with the bulk and weight of a DSLR while tramping around the Disney and Universal theme parks, 10-14 hours per day, for a week.

I certainly understand the dilema of wanting to save weight and bulk by choosing a P&S camera over your DSLRs. But you may be proceding from a false assumption - one that I see on the Disney boards all the time: DSLR=BIG BAG WITH WHOLE KIT.

It doesn't. I have NEVER carried a camera bag in the parks, nor when I have taken my SLRs hiking, or to the zoo, or anyplace else. I have a decent walkaround lens - currently a fabulous Canon EF-S 18-200IS - and I carry a couple of extra batteries and memory cards in a case that fits in my pocket.

I say, take the 350D and rent a super-zoom for the week. Leave the rest of your lenses home. Bring as many fully-charged batteries and memory cards as you have, since opportunities for charges and downloads will be scarce when camping in the desert, but leave the bag in your tent and only carry the camera, one lens, and a spare batt and memory card with you when you go into the field. Take your Speedlite 430EX, as well, but leave it in the bag, in the tent, until you need it.

You also seem to be proceding from the assumption that the ONLY thing worthy of being photographed out there will be panos of the crater and the surrounding area. Well, I seriously doubt that's true; besides the fact that you may want to have snapshots of your team relaxing around the fire, pitching and striking camp, and general travel snapshots, you're also doing serious acedmeic research work in and around the crater - work which you may want to document photographically. You want the best camera you have available for that kind of documentation, don't you? SLRs, assuming you have a good lens, generally do a better job with macro photography than most P&S cameras.

The tripod is a tricky proposition. Since you're going to be camping, you're going to have tremendous opportunities to get sunrise and sunset photos - the Holy Grail of landscape photography, because of the wonderful golden quality of the light. But such photography is usually better with a tripod than without. You're also obviously into asto-photography, and what better opportunity could you have than a week camped out in one of the darkest regions of the US? On the other hand, the tripod is extra weight and bulk in your luggage. I'm on the fence about it; if you're driving close to your camp site and won't have to lug all of your stuff 20 miles on foot, take the tripod. If you have to park far away and hoof it in to the site, leave it home.

You also have the option of getting a [url=]TrekPod[/url]. I have a TrekPod Go! and find that, although it's not as stable as a true tripod, it's adequate for field shooting, and it makes a truly excellent hiking stick.

So take a minimalist SLR kit with you. Leave the heavy bag full of expensive L-glass at home and use a single walkaround lens. You won't regret it when you see the photos.

Internaut · July 9, 2010

Other ideas.......
The mirrorless cameras are coming down in price and I think the Olympus Pens and the Panasonic GF1 are all very good for this sort of trip (and they all do great video too). Or...... If even that small is not small enough, how about the Sony Nex......?

Need2Ski · July 9, 2010

WillCAD wrote: »

Ditto. And Ditto again.

Similar questions to this come up all the time on the Disney World message boards I frequent. Folks don't want to be saddled with the bulk and weight of a DSLR while tramping around the Disney and Universal theme parks, 10-14 hours per day, for a week.

I think that would qualify as my own private hell.

JC · July 10, 2010

P&s
My standard field camera when I 'work' with field gear is my Canon powershot SX110. You'd probably get the newer version of it, SX120?

It's got a decent zoom, decent wide angle (I use hugin and make good panoramas), IS, and most importantly, it takes AA batteries, and is easily accessible, so I actually take shots with it. No RAW, but I'm usually happy with the shots SOC, and it does well in tough conditions, shooting outcrop into the sun (good outcrops are always east in the AM, west in the PM, funny how that always works out), low light.

Realistically, given the constraints of your project, I don't think you'd have the time while inside the crater to plan for the perfect picture worthy of a DSLR and good glass. Carrying a DSLR outside your pack is difficult if you've also got field gear like a notebook, surveying tools, whatever your project entails (no hammer's allowed?). Your Rebel is a decent size, and you can get a small pelican case for it and put it in your pack, but then the hassle of dropping your pack and pulling it out will cause you to take fewer pics. For your DSLR, consider getting a battery grip with a AA magazine, if you take enough pics, you'd need to charge the proprietary batteries, and that's a pain in the ass in the field, or buy extra of them.

If you want, I can post some field pics taken with my SX110, I usually just carabiner it to my shoulder strap and it's always at hand. The SX110 is a good snug fit in the medium osprey electronics pouch: http://www.amazon.com/Osprey-Digi-Stow-Electronics-Bag-Medium/dp/B001OICME4/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=outdoor-recreation&qid=1278748221&sr=1-5

I save my DSLR for pictures around camp- carrying it in the field is too much considering I've got a full pack and tool belt.

Ok, you didn't ask, but here are some typical 'working' shots with my SX110, I tried to pick ones like you'd be likely to be taking. Macro textures, overview shots, etc.

http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/12875114_YKXZR#929459621_rPjCB
pword: dgrin

None I'd single out to post here in the 'art' shots, but typical of my work shots.

(see gallery for high res shots)

WillCAD · July 10, 2010

Since you're going to be in Flagstaff for 3 weeks before the crater trip, why not pack up your camping gear and ship it from home by USPS or UPS? It will remove all of that weight and bulk in your luggage, the package will still be there in plenty of time for the crater trip, and you'll have a safe place to send it. Hotels and especially extended-stay places are well accustomed to accepting packages for their guests; you just have to tell them at the front desk that you're expecting one, and they'll accept it for you. USPS Priority Mail takes about 2-3 days to most places in the Lower 48. I'm going to hope that you're not going to go directly from the RV park to the airport to fly home, and you'll have a night or two in Flagstaff afterward, so you can pack it up and ship it home before your return flight.

astrostu · July 10, 2010

Thanks all for the replies ... I'm still not 100% sure what I'm going to be doing, and I really do appreciate peoples' advice. I'm just not responding each time because I want to see what people say without new readers thinking I'm arguing or have made my decision yet. However, I need to clarify again the calendar:

Tues. Sept. 21 - I fly to Flagstaff for a conference.
Wed. Sept. 22 - Conference
Fri. Sept. 24 - Last day of Conference. My parents arrive in Flagstaff.
Sat. through Mon. - Sight-seeing with parents, taking LOTS of photos with 7D and good glass. Going to: Walnut Canyon, Meteor Crater, Petrified Forest, Painted Desert, Wupatki Nat'l. Monument, Sunset Crater, Grand Canyon, Oak Creek Canyon, Sedona (I've been to each at least 2x, they haven't been for 30-40 years).
Tues. Sept. 28 - I return to Boulder, CO. Work on processing wedding photos.

Sat. Oct. 16 - I fly to Flagstaff. All I know is that after I fly in, I need to get transportation to the Flagstaff train station. Then we all go directly to the crater.
[Field Camp]
Sun. Oct. 24 - Field Camp Ends. I'll fly back probably that Monday, maybe Sunday night (again, don't know the schedule yet).

So yeah, I'll be there 3 weeks before-hand, but I won't be there for 3 weeks before. I also will not spending any time in a hotel during the crater camp, immediately before, and probably not immediately after. Sorry if there was confusion again.

colourbox · July 10, 2010

The reason a P&S is a candidate at all here is because of the quality of P&S like the Canon S90. We are not talking about the old one-button P&Ss of the film days. The S90 has full manual exposure controls. It can shoot in raw format, which can be very valuable in post processing to make up for lens/noise/exposure/sharpness deficiencies and make the files more suitable for enlargement. It is somewhat decent in low light. If you packed a mini tripod you could do an awful lot with it.

I do agree with the post above that if you are taking an SLR keep it simple. Just one versatile lens, plus cards and batteries. Small enough to carry in the little hiking bag that also has my water, snacks, and first aid. If you want to do long exposures, ask yourself if they can be done about a few inches off the ground (night sky, etc). If so, forget a big tripod and bring a sturdy little tripod that packs easily.

WillCAD · July 10, 2010

Well, it sounds to me like your mind is made up - you're buying the P&S.

At this point, then, the real question becomes: What P&S is best suited to your needs?

Going on a Camping Field Trip - Bring SLR, Buy P&S, or None?

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