Help SmugMug make a decision about giving more customer info to Pros

BaldyBaldy Registered Users, Super Moderators Posts: 2,853 moderator
edited October 10, 2008 in SmugMug Pro Sales Support
EDIT: June 2008: We now provide all the physical address info :thumb

http://blogs.smugmug.com/release-notes/2008/06/27/new-shopping-cart-june-27-2008/

We're in the midst of testing some important new Pro features :wink. You've given such great feedback, we're pretty sure we know where most Pros stand on most of the features.

When we've had questions in the past, dgrin debates have been a big help in getting things right.

The problem: Some Pros would love more contact info about who's buying their stuff. We'd love to be responsive to them. We just want to provide it in an ethically and legally sound way.

Currently, we share only the email address and the customer's first and last name with our pros. The buyer often comes to the Pro's SmugMug site because they know the Pro and it only makes sense that the Pro can contact them if there is a problem with the order, etc.

Consumers, though, are rightfully sensitive about sharing their personal information online. Some of our Pro sales come from people who aren't aware they're buying a Pro print.

To meet the needs of our Pros without ignoring the fears of our consumers, we think we should add an option to the shopping cart.

Two options we're considering:

1. Add the following text to the shopping cart at checkout:

"SmugMug provides your name and email to the photographer (Andy Williams) whose photos you're buying. Our terms with photographers forbid them from selling your contact info or using it for spam (link to definition of spam)."

The customer would then see two check boxes with the left one on by default.

(0) Just give them name and email ( ) Phone and address is okay (but not my credit card!)

Pros: You always get some contact information, even if it's just email address.

Cons: You may lose some sales from people who don't want to share their contact information.

2. Add this text to the shopping cart at checkout:

"Is it okay if we provide the photographer whose photos you're buying (Andy Williams) with your contact info? They are frequently helpful if there's a problem with the order."

(0) Yes, but not my credit card! ( ) Yes, but only my email. ( ) No.

Pros: You won't lose sales since customers feel they have control over their privacy.

Cons: You may get sales without any contact information.

Feel free to suggest wording changes or other options.

Thanks!
Baldy
«1345

Comments

  • northphotonorthphoto Registered Users Posts: 10 Big grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    This does not realy help that much??
    I am not sure how this is going to help a pro any more?? We are given the email address and name of the customer with each order placed, if we needed to get in touch with a customer we can just email them? I think most customers would only allow there email as a contact anyway.

    If SmugMug realy wants to help the PRO photographers, they should add different pkgs. for example (1-8x10, 2-5x7's, and 4-wallets) and other pkgs for a single price! this way we can offer a discounted pkg price, and help boost sales. Also, adding Photos on a baseball card or Sports Illustrated cover would be great! also selling digital images on a CD would be a great option, and one that has little overhead for smugmug since there is no printing involved.

    Keep in mind, I am a sports photographer, and these are options that would really help me out, I am sure they will help most out. I have been with Smugmug since day 1, and intend on being with them for the long haul, but as my business grows, I need to be able to compeat with others that offer these items.

    Paul North
    NORTH Photo
    Baldy wrote:
    Thanks!
    Baldy
  • NikonGirlNikonGirl Registered Users Posts: 204 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    I have a pro account, so I feel like I have the right to give my opinion. But I am definitely not a pro. So my comments are more from a consumer point of view.

    As a consumer, I would never check the box that allows you to give the photographer my phone and home address. But then I have a shredder at home and I shred everything that comes in the mail that is personal – including my home address.

    Anyway, given the choice, I think most people would never agree to giving out their home address. First of all, why does the photographer need it? With my email address, the photographer can contact me and then I can choose what information to give the photographer.

    By the way, does Smugmug validate the email address of the buyer?

    Also, what if I am buying from several photographers. Will the answers to the questions be applicable to all photographers? Or does the consumer have to answer those questions for every photographer.

    And finally as a pro – if I should ever be lucky enough to ever sell a photo, I don’t want the home address of my customer. By the way, how is the home address delivered to the photographer? Via email? Will it be encrypted? Is it only given to the photographer upon request, or would the photographer get all the home addresses regardless of whether they asked for it.
  • flyingdutchieflyingdutchie Registered Users Posts: 1,286 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    northphoto wrote:
    I am not sure how this is going to help a pro any more?? We are given the email address and name of the customer with each order placed, if we needed to get in touch with a customer we can just email them? I think most customers would only allow there email as a contact anyway.
    ...
    ...

    I agree with northphoto. I think a valid e-mail is enough so that we can contact the customer if need be.

    I assume this new feature has been requested by at significant amount of Smugmug's Pro customers. What was their reason to want this feature?
    I can't grasp the notion of time.

    When I hear the earth will melt into the sun,
    in two billion years,
    all I can think is:
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  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    Yolanda, thanks for responding!
    NikonGirl wrote:
    what if I am buying from several photographers. Will the answers to the questions be applicable to all photographers? Or does the consumer have to answer those questions for every photographer.
    If you were buying from multiple pros the info button you checked would apply for all pros you are ordering from.
    And finally as a pro – if I should ever be lucky enough to ever sell a photo, I don’t want the home address of my customer. By the way, how is the home address delivered to the photographer? Via email? Will it be encrypted? Is it only given to the photographer upon request, or would the photographer get all the home addresses regardless of whether they asked for it.
    If checked "yes, give my address and phone" then the pro would get it in an email upon completion of the buyer's order.

    Thanks again, it's great input!
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    I agree with northphoto. I think a valid e-mail is enough so that we can contact the customer if need be.

    I assume this new feature has been requested by at significant amount of Smugmug's Pro customers. What was their reason to want this feature?
    Anton (and Paul):

    Thanks both of you for replying. Yes, there are many pros who've been requesting for a long time that we provide more information than we currently do.

    Thanks for taking the time to let us know your thoughts on this!
  • CindyCindy Registered Users Posts: 542 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    I for one would really appriciate recieving their e-mail address, first & last name + phone number (address's would be nice to have but it's not a great need).

    Now for the wording... there's got to be a much better more business/customer friendly way to word this... let me think on it awhile. I worked all night last night so my mind is way to foggy to think at the moment. Maybe it's just because I'm tired but as it reads either way right now is a major turn off I think. I like the idea of giving the customer an option in the cart but not the way it currently reads above. hmmmmmm....
    Cindy Colbert (Utterback) • Wishing You Co-Bear Love, Hugs & Laughter!!!
  • bwgbwg Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,119 SmugMug Employee
    edited July 21, 2006
    Andy wrote:
    Yolanda, thanks for responding!


    If you were buying from multiple pros the info button you checked would apply for all pros you are ordering from.

    If checked "yes, give my address and phone" then the pro would get it in an email upon completion of the buyer's order.

    Thanks again, it's great input!
    a suggestion, as sending an email to the pro w/customers info is not the most secure. How about a screen where the pro can see the customer information of folks that bought photos. Maybe even have a notification on there that shows who recently bought something and have an option to shoot them a thank you email.

    i think the only way to do this would be to default the customers response to 'provide no information'. Anything other than that opens up the unobservant customer to be put on a pro's mailing list or get other unwanted emails. Not saying that any of OUR pro's would do that, just a hypothetical.
    Pedal faster
  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    bigwebguy wrote:
    a suggestion, as sending an email to the pro w/customers info is not the most secure. How about a screen where the pro can see the customer information of folks that bought photos. Maybe even have a notification on there that shows who recently bought something and have an option to shoot them a thank you email.

    i think the only way to do this would be to default the customers response to 'provide no information'. Anything other than that opens up the unobservant customer to be put on a pro's mailing list or get other unwanted emails. Not saying that any of OUR pro's would do that, just a hypothetical.


    Not a pro, but if I were, I would think that an order history page like BWG is suggesting would be much more helpful. You could even offer different views/sorts and possibly tie it in to stats to make it a really powerful tool.
    Moderator Emeritus
    Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
  • BrianLoweBrianLowe Registered Users Posts: 48 Big grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    bigwebguy wrote:
    a suggestion, as sending an email to the pro w/customers info is not the most secure. How about a screen where the pro can see the customer information of folks that bought photos. Maybe even have a notification on there that shows who recently bought something and have an option to shoot them a thank you email.

    i think the only way to do this would be to default the customers response to 'provide no information'. Anything other than that opens up the unobservant customer to be put on a pro's mailing list or get other unwanted emails. Not saying that any of OUR pro's would do that, just a hypothetical.
    I am for the above, a separate screen within Smugmug where the customer info is centralized in my SM pro account.

    Brian
  • johngjohng Registered Users Posts: 1,658 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    priorities
    Well,

    I suppose it's nice. But, to be honest, if a customer is not going to answer an email I send them they probably don't want to talk to me.

    I realize of all the requested features I've been seeing this is the easiest to implement but from what I've seen in the feature request thread this certainly didn't seem like a hot priority. Packages, coupons, the ever present custom watermarking all seem like much more desired options. I'm all for quick hitters with good ROI, but I'd rather see your IT folks working on the features giving me more options that help my business. The impact to my profitablity of having a phone number as well is pretty small compared to the other features.

    That's my honest two cents!
  • Mike LaneMike Lane Registered Users Posts: 7,106 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    Baldy, do you guys have any statistics about how many customers balk when faced with the knowledge that their information is shared with the photographer? My gut feeling is that not so many people would cancel a purchase because they knew that the photographer would have their email address. But that's not based on any real statistical data or anything. So based on my gut feeling option 1 would be better in my opinion. But if there is data suggesting that a large (largish) percentage of customers would balk if they are not given the option of hiding their info from the photographer then obviously my choice would be option 2.

    ear.gif
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  • BenBen Vanilla Admin Posts: 513 SmugMug Employee
    edited July 21, 2006
    Just as clarification, this is not something that is impeding or replacing the development of other features. This is not something that is soaking up weeks of time in engineering, etc. This is simply something we want input on before implementing.

    So please, please keep the feature requests to the feature request thread.

    As for Mike's question, we don't have those statistics. That is one of the reasons we want to open it up to debate, if we knew it was 10% (unlikely)... it would be a no brainer to give them options to opt out. If we knew it was .0001% (also probably unlikely), it would be a no brainer to go the other route. :D

    Its not an easy question to answer, but we have had some very explosive and fiery threads in dpreview and (I think) here about the subject. We are trying to get the bottom of how important it is to pros, and what sort of solution they see, while trying to stay ethical towards those buying the prints.
    Smug since 2003
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    I have an Exposure Manager account that all my new racing photos go to. From that account I get the customer's name, email, and mailing address. They need to do that because some of the products are self-fulfill. Therefore I need to know where to ship something to. I do not get CC information, however.

    All my clients come to me because they are aware of me in the first place. They all believe they are actually buying from me, not from Smugmug or Exposure Manager. They do not have an issue sharing their address with me simply because they are not aware of the middle man in the first place.

    But personally, knowing my clients mailing address, while nice, is not that big a deal. There are other more important things for me than this. I really think this particular "pro feature" is being over-blown.
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
    A former sports shooter
    Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
    My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
  • BodleyBodley Registered Users Posts: 766 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    I am totally against giving the customer the option to hide the basic information (name-email) from the pro. Also think since the customers are buying the photos from a Pro's photo site then logic would dictate that the Pro would get their order information (name, email, address) without asking the customer. After all without the Pro there would not be a transaction. I cannot see where the Pro would or should ever get Credit Card information or other sensitive information.
    Greg
    "Tis better keep your mouth shut and be thought of as an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
  • Steve CaviglianoSteve Cavigliano Super Moderators Posts: 3,599 moderator
    edited July 21, 2006
    FWIW, as a mortgage broker I run into quite a bit of difference regarding privacy issues. Some folks guard their privacy religiously. Others could care less. Probably a 40/60 split. I also run into a significant number of people who do not wish to furnish contact information. Or who provide erroneous contact information. At my Open Houses I see about the same percentage of folks who decline to sign my book or who give me wrong contact info.

    Many realtors and lenders do marketing campaigns where they capture email addys and/or phone numbers when prospective clients respond. They can then use this information to continue contacting these prospects. Basically, trying to drum up business. I know you said no SPAM. But, I really see no reason for a Pro to contact a buyer other than to sell more prints.

    I can also see how customers may feel that by providing this information, they will probably be contacted to buy more prints in the future. Maybe if you could come up with a better reason than "sometimes it helps if the Pro can contact them about their order". I'm pretty naive, but I think this isn't that believeable. I mean doesn't SM work with the Pro and EZ Prints if there's an issue? Leaving the customer out of the loop unless their order cannot be filled as requested? I'd also think in the rare cases where the Pro and customer need to communicate SM could and should play the middle-man. Afterall, they (SM) are trying to satisfy two customers. The Pro and the print buyer.

    Bottomline, I would make it optional. As in "Opting Out" of sharing your personal information on a Privacy Notice. Best case, ask to share their email addy. You can ask whether they would allow SM to share their home address or phone number as a 3rd choice. Most definitely NO sharing of CREDIT CARD info by SM. I could see how this could quite easily lead to major issues. If the customer wants to share this info one-on-one with the Pro, that's their business.

    Option 1: Opt out-no infomation sharing
    Option 2: Share my email address only
    Option 3: Share my email address and delivery information (excluding C/C info)


    Just my opinion,
    Steve
    SmugMug Support Hero
  • lynnesitelynnesite Registered Users Posts: 747 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    Option 1: Opt out-no infomation sharing
    Option 2: Share my email address only
    Option 3: Share my email address and delivery information (excluding C/C info)
    Just my opinion,
    Steve

    I agree with Steve. My customers fall into two groups, those who are buying event or farm call photos, they know me personally or professionally. The second group is for the wallhangers, and I have sold little of those because I'm very conflicted about selling what is also my stock portfolio that way and disabled printing in virtually all of those galleries.

    I want e-mails on all of them, ideally. I like how Steve has stated it, easily understood for the customer.
  • JimMJimM Registered Users Posts: 1,389 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    I really am happy with the information I currently receive, just name and email address. I make it a habit to email every customer a thank you email, and asking them to contact me if I can ever be of service. I just think that is good customer service.

    I don't really need a phone number or address. As for the question someone brought up about verifying the customer's email address, they will put a valid one so they get their receipt and tracking information sent to them....

    On a side note, the prints I ordered Monday arrived today.... as always terrific job Smugmug!!!!
    Cameras: >(2) Canon 20D .Canon 20D/grip >Canon S200 (p&s)
    Glass: >Sigma 17-35mm,f2.8-4 DG >Tamron 28-75mm,f2.8 >Canon 100mm 2.8 Macro >Canon 70-200mm,f2.8L IS >Canon 200mm,f2.8L
    Flash: >550EX >Sigma EF-500 DG Super >studio strobes

    Sites: Jim Mitte Photography - Livingston Sports Photos - Brighton Football Photos
  • JimMJimM Registered Users Posts: 1,389 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    Baldy wrote:
    We're in the midst of testing some important new Pro features mwink.gif. You've given such great feedback, we're pretty sure we know where most Pros stand on most of the features.

    Baldy, you sure have our interests and hopes peaked with a statment like that!!! I think we all have our fingers crossed right now.
    Cameras: >(2) Canon 20D .Canon 20D/grip >Canon S200 (p&s)
    Glass: >Sigma 17-35mm,f2.8-4 DG >Tamron 28-75mm,f2.8 >Canon 100mm 2.8 Macro >Canon 70-200mm,f2.8L IS >Canon 200mm,f2.8L
    Flash: >550EX >Sigma EF-500 DG Super >studio strobes

    Sites: Jim Mitte Photography - Livingston Sports Photos - Brighton Football Photos
  • BaldyBaldy Registered Users, Super Moderators Posts: 2,853 moderator
    edited July 21, 2006
    JimM wrote:
    I really am happy with the information I currently receive, just name and email address. I make it a habit to email every customer a thank you email, and asking them to contact me if I can ever be of service. I just think that is good customer service.
    Hi Jim,

    Great feedback, thanks.

    I want to make sure I worded my original post clearly enough so no one is surprised by a change.

    Currently: The Pro is given the name and email of everyone who purchases. There is no mention of it in the shopping cart, only in the terms and conditions of the site.

    Option 1: Does make it clear that we're giving contact info to the photographer. This could mean that some customers may get to the checkout and decide that their privacy is so important to them that they'll decide not to purchase after all.

    Option 2: Makes it clear that we're giving contact info to the customer as well, but gives them the option to say no. This could mean you won't end up with any customer info for some orders where you do get it today. But the upside of this option, is for some orders you'll get physical address. We have a number of pros who send out newsletters whenever they've done a new photo shoot, so they want that.

    Clear as mud? headscratch.gif
  • MongrelMongrel Registered Users Posts: 622 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    My two bones...
    I also feel that this has to be fairly low down on the list as far as requested upgrades go. But anyway....

    I don't need any more info from my customers than a valid email contact address and their name. I personally would find it intrusive to be asked any more than that from this type of online transaction.

    If you do decide to make this part of the Pro Account shopping cart, PLEASE make it an option that I can TURN OFF at the gallery level. I don't even want my customers to have to deal with it, so they shouldn't have to see it.

    Baldy, while you are here what's the status of the following?

    1. Setting pricing at the category or sub-category level?
    2. Custom watermark
    3. Back printing
    4. Gallery customization at the category and sub-category level?

    Any idea as to when or if any of the above may be available?

    Thanks,

    Mongrel
    If every keystroke was a shutter press I'd be a pro by now...
  • marlinspikemarlinspike Registered Users Posts: 2,095 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    Just leave it how it is. I think to have radio buttons to adjust the level of info given would just confuse people.
  • gusgus Registered Users Posts: 16,209 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    I agree with northphoto. I think a valid e-mail is enough so that we can contact the customer if need be.

    I assume this new feature has been requested by at significant amount of Smugmug's Pro customers. What was their reason to want this feature?
    Im with northphoto & flyingdutchie. My feelings exactly.
  • BaldyBaldy Registered Users, Super Moderators Posts: 2,853 moderator
    edited July 21, 2006
    Mongrel wrote:
    I also feel that this has to be fairly low down on the list as far as requested upgrades go. But anyway....
    One of the features high on the request list is digital downloads. We try to think about the little things that will make the big features succeed, so let me ask if you think this feature would seem bigger if we did digital downloads?

    Currently, I buy a lot of stock photography to use on SmugMug's help and marketing pages. I have my favorite vendors but of course I'd really like to buy digital images from SmugMug pros.

    When I buy from Getty, I don't have to worry about them giving my contact info to the photographer, and getting a newsletter from that photographer every time he goes out on a new shoot.

    If I buy from Exposure Manager, my understanding is I'm not only getting on the photographer's email list, but he's getting my home address and phone too. I'm never told this, far as I can tell. I'm not a privacy freak, but the idea of that much info in the hands of 200 unknown photogs makes even me pucker.

    SmugMug is on a pretty big scale now... Lots of people are drawn to the popular photos, search, etc. Isn't it important to prevent the blogosphere's heads from exploding when they find out that when you buy from that SmugMug place they give your contact info out to as many different people as photos you bought -- and they weren't told?

    Confession: I shoot photos each year at Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance and I sell them on SmugMug. As a photographer, I dearly want the email of every customer who buys one of my shots.

    But I don't want to email them and have their heads explode because they think I violated their privacy.

    Your thoughts. :D
  • BaldyBaldy Registered Users, Super Moderators Posts: 2,853 moderator
    edited July 21, 2006
    I assume this new feature has been requested by at significant amount of Smugmug's Pro customers. What was their reason to want this feature?
    Actually, it might be more accurate to say it has been requested by a significant number of Pros who went elsewhere, and this was the reason they listed.

    Here are the words of one photographer from a dpreview post:
    (The decision) came down to the customer is and remains yours at ExposureManager NOT like at Smugmug where the customer is hijacked and becomes Smugmugs customer.
    There are powerful emotions behind it. The Big One is, "It's my customer, not yours." I feel I can understand that emotion well because I kill myself at Concours, I get the customer to the page, and I feel that SmugMug is the facilitator to fill the order.

    But honestly, I've never been able to understand why the physical address and phone number is so important. And we do give the name and email address. And we don't spam the customer or try to sell them on SmugMug subscriptions, so I know we're missing something important.
  • ishotuishotu Registered Users Posts: 1 Beginner grinner
    edited July 21, 2006
    Customer Contact Info
    I have some customers that won't even order prints on line if they have to enter a credit card number. I'd just as soon not give any more reason to be concerned. I'm ok with the way things work right now. My two cents.
    Bill
  • MongrelMongrel Registered Users Posts: 622 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    Hi Baldy,
    I'm not sure I'm totally following you here, but I'll try :D

    If someone buys something from *me*, then it stands to reason that I will have their information. I mean when they go to my site and purchase an event or sports pic they are buying from 'Little BIG Shotz'. More than half of my customers probably don't even realize it's going through SmugMug, to EZ Prints and then on to them.

    So following that scenario, to put something in writing that gives them a contact option etc. just seems to be ne_nau.gif They already *think* I'm getting their name, address, phone number, credit card number, or whatever else you ask them at the time of purchase. I don't see how they could think otherwise?

    For this type of transaction, whether it's a single print or a digital download how could it be any other way? I guess that's why I'm confused over giving people an option. You (SmugMug that is) *are not* a stock photo agency representing *me*. I am a photographer who is using SmugMug as an internet storefront so again ne_nau.gif

    Now, having said all of that and reconsidering my original comments, here is my 'new' take on it...

    SmugMug SHOULD provide me with ALL the details of the transaction-period. This can be done without having to alert the customer that it is even happening. Why? Because it's MY customer and NOT SmugMugs! Again, they are buying *my* pics from *me* and have already consented to giving this information *to me* during the purchase process. So the issue isn't whether or not I *should* have the information, but whether or not SmugMug will forward me what is already *mine* and provided to *me* by the customer.

    If there is some legal mumbo-jumbo involving the credit card info-fine. I can live without that and don't need it. But providing me with "the facts"-name, rank, and serial number, well why not?

    Ok...

    I just re-read your post above and I'm still headscratch.gif . How does someone buying a pic from "Little BIG Shotz" have anything to do with information getting "into the hands of 200 unknown photographers"? You buy MY pic, I have your *number*. If I wanted to do business as a "stock" photographer I'd submit my images to a stock agency. If you want MY pic, sorry but you have to buy it from ME. Now, if an agency wants to buy my pic, then they can contact me and that can be worked out I guess.

    Maybe I'm really missing something here, so help me out...
    If every keystroke was a shutter press I'd be a pro by now...
  • JeffroJeffro Registered Users Posts: 1,941 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2006
    Baldy wrote:
    The problem: Some Pros would love more contact info about who's buying their stuff. We'd love to be responsive to them. We just want to provide it in an ethically and legally sound way.

    I have a pro account, and getting the name and e-mail of the customer has always been more than enough. In fact, I haven't even had to make contact with any of them. Often times the customers contact me, via my e-mail, before buying, with any questions they have. If there is a problem with their order, and they want to contact me my e-mail is there for them. Otherwise I don't want to bother them with e-mails that may seem pushy. I don't think there needs to be another set of buttons giving unimportant options. With SmugMug doing my shipping I no longer need the home address of my customers. In fact I switched to SmugMug so I could stop dealing with all that info in the frist place. So far I have had zero complaints about my pictures, the quality, the delivery time....anything.

    So in case I lost you...I don't need the extra info / options for said info.

    If you decide to go that way, I want to be able to shut it off too.
    Always lurking, sometimes participating. :D
  • BaldyBaldy Registered Users, Super Moderators Posts: 2,853 moderator
    edited July 21, 2006
    Mongrel wrote:
    I'm not sure I'm totally following you here, but I'll try :D
    No worries, I'm following you. Bless you for taking the time to make your points so clearly.
    Mongrel wrote:
    SmugMug SHOULD provide me with ALL the details of the transaction-period. This can be done without having to alert the customer that it is even happening. Why? Because it's MY customer and NOT SmugMugs! Again, they are buying *my* pics from *me* and have already consented to giving this information *to me* during the purchase process.
    As a Pro myself, I also feel passionately that it's my customer. It's a very important point to me.

    The problem is, it isn't completely true. Their personal info is actually being given to us, the intermediary, and we want to pass all that we can legally, and in good conscience, to you.

    We want to for many reasons:

    1. It will endear us to you, our subscriber, without whom these orders wouldn't happen. :):

    2. We believe you'll use it to make the relationship with your customer stronger.

    3. We believe you won't use it for spam, making a mockery of SmugMug's anti-spam stance. umph.gif

    4. We know our competitors will do it without qualm, unless privacy advocates stop them.

    The problem is putting yourself in the buyer's shoes. Soccer mom is told by her neighbor that she can buy pics of her daughter playing lacrosse. She has no idea who shot the photos but she sees them on a website. She buys them.

    It's one thing for the unknown photographer to get her email address, quite another to get her daughter's physical address. No?
  • docwalkerdocwalker Registered Users Posts: 1,867 SmugMug Employee
    edited July 21, 2006
    I personally like the idea of getting the Name, Email Address, and Mailing Address as a minimum. My customers know me. They could care less who SM is. I think a written statement that the credit card information will not be given out is sufficient. Then send the photog the contact info. No one else needs to see the CC info but SM.

    I am self fulfilling a lot of my orders locally as people are more afraid of the interface than giving out their CC or personal info. I talk to my customers, I tell them how long it will take to get their orders. I find out what causes them pain.

    Another note is that I really need to know who is purchasing my photos. If I sell a copy of a photo and then find that it has been used inappropriately I need to know who did it. The person may not answer an email. But, if I send them a certified letter it might get more attention.
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  • BaldyBaldy Registered Users, Super Moderators Posts: 2,853 moderator
    edited July 21, 2006
    docwalker wrote:
    Another note is that I really need to know who is purchasing my photos. If I sell a copy of a photo and then find that it has been used inappropriately I need to know who did it. The person may not answer an email. But, if I send them a certified letter it might get more attention.
    Very interesting insight I would not have thought of had you not posted. Thanks.
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