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Features that don't work with password/private galleries
Sameritech
Registered Users Posts: 11 Big grins
It seems there are quite a few features or options that don't work with password protected or private galleries. This is really frustrating for people like me who love sharing photos with friends and family (non Smugmug users) but can't use all the features because I choose not to display my photos to people I don't know. What other features, besides the ones I've listed below, do not work with a password protected gallery, password protected site, or private gallery? I wish Smugmug would make all the features available regardless what the individual site settings are. Anyone have an idea of what percentage of sites are set with passwords and how many are open to public viewing?
These are the features I don't think work with password/private galleries or sites. Am I missing other functions?
Every single one of these features should CLEARLY state in the help sections that they DON'T WORK with password protected or private galleries. Some do, some don't, some require some digging before it's revealed. I should not have to visit this forum and do a search to find a previous post that explains, oh by the way, that feature won't work. I found the Photorank feature didn't work only AFTER encouraging my friends and family to use the thumbs up/down feature. It was only later when I was trying to figure out why it wasn't working that I learned it won't work with my password galleries. These features that don't work should either be clearly listed in their own section of help, at the top of each applicable feature help page, or better yet, it could be stated right under the feature when it's shown within the control panel.
Oh, and one more unrelated comment that's been mentioned many other times in this forum. I wish Smugmug would integrate videos better. Almost all new digital cameras and phones these days (bought by the average consumer) have video capability. So I understand Smugmug was initially built on the photo storage experience but these days the same piece of equipment that takes photos also takes video. It would follow that a good portion of the users have photo and video storage needs. This area has for the most part been ignored by Smugmug. That's unfortunate. I would gladly pay a little more to have more video capabilities, formats, or larger video file sizes supported than what's available from a pro/power account. Other services that have video and photo storage capability are for the most part cheaper in cost than Smugmug. Granted the Smugmug does have one of the best photo storage experiences in my opinion.
Sam
These are the features I don't think work with password/private galleries or sites. Am I missing other functions?
- PhotoRank
- Most popular photos
- Keywords
- Searches
Every single one of these features should CLEARLY state in the help sections that they DON'T WORK with password protected or private galleries. Some do, some don't, some require some digging before it's revealed. I should not have to visit this forum and do a search to find a previous post that explains, oh by the way, that feature won't work. I found the Photorank feature didn't work only AFTER encouraging my friends and family to use the thumbs up/down feature. It was only later when I was trying to figure out why it wasn't working that I learned it won't work with my password galleries. These features that don't work should either be clearly listed in their own section of help, at the top of each applicable feature help page, or better yet, it could be stated right under the feature when it's shown within the control panel.
Oh, and one more unrelated comment that's been mentioned many other times in this forum. I wish Smugmug would integrate videos better. Almost all new digital cameras and phones these days (bought by the average consumer) have video capability. So I understand Smugmug was initially built on the photo storage experience but these days the same piece of equipment that takes photos also takes video. It would follow that a good portion of the users have photo and video storage needs. This area has for the most part been ignored by Smugmug. That's unfortunate. I would gladly pay a little more to have more video capabilities, formats, or larger video file sizes supported than what's available from a pro/power account. Other services that have video and photo storage capability are for the most part cheaper in cost than Smugmug. Granted the Smugmug does have one of the best photo storage experiences in my opinion.
Sam
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Hi Sam,
Thanks for your feedback! I'm the right person to reply to your post, because I write the help pages.
I'm sorry you didn't find the limitations of password-protected and/or private galleries intuitive or clearly outlined on the help pages. It seems like the best place to put this info would be on this help page: http://www.smugmug.com/help/private-albums . We do state clearly there that private and/or pw-protected galleries won't show up in SmugMug's searches, and that the titles of public, pwded galleries will show up in Google searches (unless you use SmugIslands to prevent that).
We state on the keyword help page that only you, as account owner, will be able to use keywords for password-protected or private galleries: http://www.smugmug.com/help/keywords-tags .
However, I definitely think we could be more clear about how photorank/popularity is unavailable for private or password-protected galleries.
For password-protected or private galleries, if you are LOGGED OUT, the photos and galleries will be left out of all search and browse functions. You won't find them when browsing by keyword, popularity, date, or maps.
To get specific about one of these, the purpose of photorank/popularity is for ranked photos to show up in the popular photos box on your SmugMug homepage, on your popular photos page (http://nickname.smugmug.com/popular), and possibly on SmugMug's popular photos page (http://smugmug.com/popular). The way I see it is allowing photorank to function in a private or password-protected gallery would empower your visitors to make your private and password-protectd photos viewable at their descretion. And, probably without realizing it! If any private or password-protected photo could be displayed on your homepage or even SmugMug's browse page just because your buddy gave it a casual thumbs-up... that would be problem! We assume that if you're ok with your photos being viewable on your SmugMug homepage to any visitor who drops by, you wouldn't lock them up or keep them private.
Here's a summary:
-Private or password-protected galleries won't show up in a community.
-You can put a photo from a private or password-protected gallery in your bio, or externally linked on a forum or blog (provided you have external linking enabled for the gallery).
-For visitors, private or password-protected galleries and the photos they contain are not searchable and won't show up when browsing (by keyword, date, popular, maps).
-As a logged-in account owner, you will be able to search private and password-protected galleries, and browse them by keyword and date.
Of course, SmugIslands will keep your photos out of visitor searching and browsing as well, if you'd like! http://smugmug.com/help/private-search-island
Now, one thing you didn't mention but that I think is very relevant is our site-wide password feature. If you keep your galleries private and un-password-protected but you put a single site-wide password on your SmugMug site, you can set it up so that keywords and searching work for visitors who have typed in the password.
Another thing you didn't mention was our SmugIsland feature. This can keep your entire SmugMug site out of Google searches and SmugMug searches, yet you can set it up so everything is completely functional once a visitor gets to your SmugMug homepage. This includes search, keywords, popularity, timeline, etc.
Clear as mud? Please let me know, because I'm currently mulling over the clearest way to present this information in our help pages.
Thanks for your input about our video support. Our focus has always been, and will always be, photos. However, please don't assume that just because you haven't seen any additional video support (besides giving a huge bump to allowable file size) that we are ignoring this.
-Anne
Smugmug is certainly the best as far as overall photo storage services goes. And it's nice to see that comments and suggestions are read and responded to. That is a basic customer service function that is severely lacking in most other cheaper online photo storage sites.
Sam
I added a password to my Smugmug site and noticed that the browse by date is not working properly. I understand that when logged in, all photos (including those in private and password-protected galleries) will appear. However, when I log out, I get varying numbers and sometimes even have 0 in the date search. When I remove the site password, I do see additional photos, but when I toggle back and forth between having and not having a password, the numbers often change. Is this just a timing issue or is there anything I can do to ensure that all non-private photos are included in the browse by date feature when a site is password-protected?
Hi Allei
With a site-wide password in place, the only difference in browsing by date between a visitor who has entered the password and you, as logged-in account owner, should be photos in private or password-protected galleries.
Can I get a link to your SmugMug homepage? I'd be happy to take a look.
-Anne
Hi Anne,
I just spent the good part of an hour entering keywords to two of my private password-protected galleries and emailing all the recipients with a description of how to use the keywords to sort through the photos, only to find that the keywords feature is not available for such galleries. Granted, I did not see the "gotcha" notice on the faq page for Keywords, but I just didn't expect that this would NOT be a feature because I can see no good reason why users who have been given a password to access your gallery can't use the keyword feature.
This is very counter-intuitive and extremely frustrating, especially as I had planned on creating private password protected galleries for specific events.
Say for instance, I created a private password gallery for a wedding shoot. It would mean that the clients wouldn't be able to search through the large number of photos by keywords, which would then largely defeat the entire purpose of entering the keywords in the first place. And using the site-wide password SmugIslands feature is not appropriate in this situation because firstly, I only want to keep the private galleries out of google search, and secondly, each individual client should only have the password for their own specific gallery and not anyone else's.
Could you please explain the rationale behind disallowing people who have been granted passwords to use the keywords feature?
This is really problematic and if you could suggest a way that I can work around this, it would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Nelson
P.S I just found this thread too...there seem to be other members who have the same thoughts:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?p=791468#post791468
Website: www.lookingglassphotography.com.au
Blog: http://lookingglassphotography.posterous.com/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LookingGlassPho
Thanks for letting us know keywords are important to you.
Keywords were designed to be a social feature (and are tied up in the "search and browse" functionality that SmugIslands address). I know that we received several requests to allow them in the situation of site wide passwords, gallery passwords, unlisted galleries, etc. We did add functionality when we released the SmugIslands feature, which allows you as the site owner to search and browse all the galleries on your site, regardless of passwords or the fact that some galleries are unlisted. We also added functionality that made searching and browsing work for visitors to a SmugMug site protected by a site-wide password.
I believe what you're asking for is the last hold-out: Visitors being able to search and browse within an unlisted or password-protected gallery. I don't have a great answer for you as to why we haven't implemented this (yet), but I do think it would add quite a bit of confusion.
I realize in your case, you expected it to work and were confused that it didn't. However, I can imagine the situation where someone reaches an unlisted gallery and then steps out to your SmugMug homepage and tries to search for that gallery, or the keywords in that gallery. They were *just* there, so they know it exists, but it doesn't come up in searches. Similarly, once a password-protected gallery is unlocked, most visitors are cookied in so that they aren't prompted to enter a password for that gallery or any other galleries protected by the same password for up to a week. Yet, those galleries would contain keywords that are left out of any keyword search from your SmugMug homepage. The visitor would have to be IN the gallery to get the keyword results, and that's a distinction that is difficult to explain... especially to a casual visitor.
I'm not sure there is a great solution to this, but I definitely appreciate your feedback and it's something we'll continue to think about.
As far as a work-around goes, if it's essential that each gallery be password-protected and/or unlisted, then I really can't think of a way to get keyword functionality in there for your visitors. I'm sorry I don't have a different answer for you at this point.
-Anne
The iphone page doesnt work either for you with passworded/protected galleries (if your interested).
Stick/iphone after your name www.username.smugmug.com/iphone to see what it whould look like.
Hi Anne,
Thanks for taking the time to reply in detail...much appreciated as always when it comes to Smugmug support:)
For me, I think keywords are first and foremost a 'search' feature rather than a 'social' feature. It enables the power of alternative searching tools for the user that enhances their experience, rather than any social aspect that I can see (from a web 2.0 perspective). Elements such as comments and ratings enhance the social aspects of the site, but keywords are simply shortcuts to search strings with no social element attached. (Keywords can have a social element if displayed as clouds due to their relative size, but that is not really relevant in this case.)
I think your hypothetical situation could certainly occur, but a simple and easy way to reduce the likelihood of this occurring would be for me to add a short reminder in the smugmug email to the recipients that "...As you have been given access to a password-protected gallery, please be aware that to ensure your privacy, keywords that are specific for this gallery are only accessible whilst you are in this gallery."
In the same situation, my guess is that if a user clicks out to a public gallery and then looks for keywords but doesn't find them there, common sense would usually dictate that they return at least to the relevant gallery where they will be found again. Granted, there would still be some users who would not find it, but as stated in other threads before, a parent going to your public galleries surely wouldn't expect the name of their son "Billy" to be on the public keyword list (and if they did, that's reason enough for them to be concerned!). Moreover, how many users would suddenly have the urge to search for such a specific keyword when browsing in a public gallery?
If, even after a specific reminder in the email, the user still gets confused, the worst they could do is email us and we could send another polite reminder to them. This is a lot less painful, takes a lot less time, maintains the privacy of galleries and gallery-specific keywords, and most importantly, allows keywords to be used in the fashion that they have been created for as a search tool.
Perhaps, if smugmug still has issues with releasing this feature for ALL users, it would be worth considering having it as an opt-in feature for pro users who would like the option to customise the usability of their individual sites.
Nelson
Website: www.lookingglassphotography.com.au
Blog: http://lookingglassphotography.posterous.com/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LookingGlassPho
At present, 100% of all users who have access to private password-protected galleries are losing out on the power of keyword search. If keywords are implemented, then 100% of these same users will now have access to keyword search. Of these, let's say 10% are in the hypothetical category that you mentioned previously (ie. they will get confused that certain keywords are no longer to be found in public galleries). Even still, in this instance, 100% of users (including the confused ones) will gain utility from having the keywords in the private gallery. And if the percentage of confused users is higher at say 30%, it still doesn't change the fact that the feature will be beneficial for 100% of the users.
So by withholding this feature, it essentially means that ALL users are being penalised for the sake of protecting those users who may run into some confusion. (And as mentioned before, preventative measures to reduce the incidence of confusion is easily and painlessly done).
Website: www.lookingglassphotography.com.au
Blog: http://lookingglassphotography.posterous.com/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LookingGlassPho
what if sm makes a keyword section available for each gallery (to turn on/off, just like the keyword section you can add/remove to your home page) that only lists the keywords for that specific gallery. label it gallery specific keywords to avoid confusion for those less gifted. it could be inserted between the photos and the comment section. i would think something like this would work with private/public galleries.
Edward
I've made requests no less than 4 times for this very thing. (keywords available in PWprotected galleries or search bars in PWP galleries)
I don't understand why people who have the password for a gallery cannot keyword search a photo in that same gallery.
links
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=79889 post #8
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=79593&page=28 post#273
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=89588
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=87684
I've never gotten a response from anyone on this.
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Zack, there's a simple explanation here. Keyword use in passworded galleries is just not a feature that Smugmug has yet implemented. It's not like it's they are saying it's impossible. They just haven't done it and it doesn't come for free with their current design. No need to get frustrated, that's just the state of the world.
I also use a lot of passworded galleries and would like it too, but Smugmug has prioritized other features ahead of this. They've certainly heard us ask. Their policy is to not make promises one way or the other ahead of the actual feature announcement. They don't always follow that rule, but that's apparently their plan.
You can emphasize your vote for this feature by saying it's the #1 thing you want them to do for you, but even though I want this feature, I'd rather have several other things before it like virtual galleries (that work on password protected galleries) and a revamped tools UI and sort by rating.
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Stand back and look at this from a different perspective. Maybe they dont really want to make passworded galleries as feature-rich as public galleries? Maybe there is a 'bigger picture' view of things that is subtly encouraging folks to keep their galleries public . .. and searchable . . . by Google (for example).