Smug Mug Color Issues?

kriyababaji · October 17, 2007

G'Day

I tried to download some new images into a new gallery and the colors are really flat and subdued...way off! Is Smug Mug experiencing temporary problems?

I thought I may have done something wrong when I created a new gallery, but when I tried to reload a photo in an existing gallery it does the same thing

See here

http://wild-earth-illuminations.smugmug.com/gallery/3537133

The last photo in this gallery was the reload, the original is right next to it....the difference is obvious. Suggestions?

Thanks Shane

Andy · October 18, 2007

We do not alter your files - so the differences have to be on your end, let's find out why?

They are different files...

First one is 531493 bytes
Second one is 477756 bytes

How did you process these differently? Are both in sRGB before you uploaded?

Let us know?

EDIT: We do change Adobe, ProPhoto, CMYK files to sRGB, as we state in our help pages, here: http://www.smugmug.com/help/upload-photos and so Shane, you've uncovere a bug, we'll fix it.

But, it is always better for you to convert the files on your end.

kriyababaji · October 18, 2007

Andy wrote:

We do not alter your files - so the differences have to be on your end, let's find out why?

They are different files...

First one is 531493 bytes
Second one is 477756 bytes

How did you process these differently? Are both in sRGB before you uploaded?

Let us know?

Hi Andy

I have done nothing different to the files. I never save in sRGB because I know Smug Mug does it automatically. I don't know what else to say. I will need to resume this tomorrow. I have done nothing different that I am aware of.

Thanks for the initial response.

Andy · October 18, 2007

kriyababaji wrote:

Hi Andy

I have done nothing different to the files. I never save in sRGB because I know Smug Mug does it automatically. I don't know what else to say. I will need to resume this tomorrow. I have done nothing different that I am aware of.

Thanks for the initial response.

Hi Shane,

Tell me exactly how you uploaded this file, what uploader please?

Andy · October 18, 2007

Well, it does look like we're not converting the files right now, which we should be....

I'll ask Don about it.

Shane: You are an amazing photographer, and even though we conver them, don't rely on us. YOU take control over your work, and ensure it displays best. Why create gorgeous images only to let another system do the conversion? Make it your last step and do it on your end.

kriyababaji · October 18, 2007

Andy wrote:

Well, it does look like we're not converting the files right now, which we should be....

I'll ask Don about it.

Shane: You are an amazing photographer, and even though we conver them, don't rely on us. YOU take control over your work, and ensure it displays best. Why create gorgeous images only to let another system do the conversion? Make it your last step and do it on your end.

Thanks for the compliment Andy...you are right, I need to finish it up! I put so much time and effort into my work I need to see it through to the last step. They are loading properly now.

Thanks shane

Matthew Saville · October 18, 2007

Andy wrote:

Well, it does look like we're not converting the files right now, which we should be....

I'll ask Don about it.

Shane: You are an amazing photographer, and even though we conver them, don't rely on us. YOU take control over your work, and ensure it displays best. Why create gorgeous images only to let another system do the conversion? Make it your last step and do it on your end.

Hey Andy, it's me "the annoying one" again... I saw this topic, thought to myself "phew, glad I got my color discrepancy issues solved!"

...Then on a whim I went and double-checked... It seems that my color problems have returned. Previously I posted here and got help solving my problem- my gamma was 1.8 instead of 2.2...

I run a very strict, consistent workflow:

Computer gamma 2.2 instead of 1.8, check!

Camera shooting in sRGB, check!

Adobe Bridge CS3 converting in sRGB, check!

Photoshop CS3 working space sRGB, converting everything to working color space, check!

Photoshop CS3 Proof setup set to Windows RGB, check!

Photoshop CS3 outputing (always using Save As, not Save For Web. But using Save For Web generates the same discrepancy anyway, even with the "ICC profile" box checked)

Some how, I still get an ever so slight desaturation difference in viewing images with Bridge / PS vs Firefox... Safari however WILL display both "O" and "L" sizes perfectly, and from my last post we learned that "O" images retain the original uploaded profile while L images have no profile whatsoever.

I was about to say that this proves that there's nothing wrong with my image output, but then I went and had a look on another photographer's site, not on Smugmug, and there was ZERO difference between images viewed with Safari or FF.

Then I went to my own web space that is not hosted on Smugmug web space, and viewed some more photos, this time I DID get the discrepancy between Safari and FF. What the?????

I continued on to moon river photography, and got the discrepancy again, FF has a slight color shift or desaturation, or WHATEVER it is, compared to Safari and Bridge / Photoshop... So whatever I might be doing wrong with outputting my images, Andy's doing it too. I doubt Andy's doing anything wrong with his output though, so this leaves my FF settings or monitor settings to be the culprit, right?

Finally to mountainlight.com, juuust to drive myself completely nuts, ...aaaaaannd, back to NO color discrepancy...

UGH, I'm about to give up. Why is this discrepancy so elusive and sporadic? I am stumped...

ANY clues whatsoever?

Thanks a ton,
=Matt=

Andy · October 18, 2007

Matthew Saville wrote:

ANY clues whatsoever?

Thanks a ton,
=Matt=

Hi Matt, always good to hear from you

Shoot me some links from your site that illustrate this, okay?

Matthew Saville · October 19, 2007

Andy wrote:

Hi Matt, always good to hear from you

Shoot me some links from your site that illustrate this, okay?

Alright, let's do this methodically and scientifically in a controlled environment. Again, here are my settings:

My monitor is DEFINITELY set to 2.2 gamma, I just checked.

My Bridge CS3 workflow settings:

My PS color settings:

My PS output settings:

The result:

(that's the "O" image btw)

The comparison:

On the left is the outputted JPG re-opened in PS, looking the same as it did when I outputted it, the same as Bridge. On the other side of the clearly visible line is a screenshot of the image in FF, layered on the same image.

Now is when it gets full-circle nasty: I CAN see the line, even though this image is a jpg on the internet. Does that mean that the left-hand side is still as saturated as it was in the original image? NOPE, if I compare the uploaded jpg to the image that is still in PS, the uploaded jpg shows even more desaturation:

(It's faint, but it's there)

Here's the image hosted on my own web space. It ALSO has the discrepancy.

http://www.matthewsaville.com/tmp/pink_sunset--800px.jpg

I would quickly deduce that it is simply an issue with my monitor settings, except for the disturbing fact that SOME websites out there have managed to convince FF to display images the same. Does this mean that regardless of an incorrect monitor setting, there's something missing from MY jpg images, hosted on Smugmug or elsewhere, therefore making it easier for OTHERS to have a color discrepancy too? I can almost live with MY monitor having a teeny-tiny color discrepancy, as long as PS is accurate and as long as my prints look good, but the thought of tons of people out there using FF or IE seeing my images a teeny-tiny bit off is what irks me...

=Matt=

Smug Mug Color Issues?

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