I would be glad to put a password on my site if, once entered, visitors could utilize my keywords, MapThis, and whatever else breaks after the password is added.
But for current customers to have control of a meta tag, a robots.txt file (maybe even a .htaccess file) is a bit of a stretch?
Smugmug works perfectly for me. I am a pro shooting lifesaving in Australia. I photograph children from under 7 to under 18 and I password those galleries. I photograph the seniors and I don't password the galleries, instead I keyword them for Google and the other search engines to find. All the feedback that I have had from the parents is that they love seeing their kids photos, that the site works perfectly and is easy to navigate. We haven't had anyone who has complained or asked that their kids photos be removed. Something that we'd be only too happy to do. How many photos do we have online ? Over 50,000 from the past 4 years.
I don't mind that the search doesn't work with passworded galleries, everything is arranged in a logical order and is easy to find. Smugmugs hierarchy of categories, sub-categories and galleries works very well and forces me to not make photos too deep in the file structure.
My other personal/work site is the same. All the family and friends photos are passworded and all the other work photos are keyworded.
It might be a case of working with whats there, rather than jumping up and down and complaining that everything to do with security is broken because it doesn't match your particular requirements.
Smugmug works perfectly for me. I am a pro shooting lifesaving in Australia. I photograph children from under 7 to under 18 and I password those galleries. I photograph the seniors and I don't password the galleries, instead I keyword them for Google and the other search engines to find. All the feedback that I have had from the parents is that they love seeing their kids photos, that the site works perfectly and is easy to navigate. We haven't had anyone who has complained or asked that their kids photos be removed. Something that we'd be only too happy to do. How many photos do we have online ? Over 50,000 from the past 4 years.
I don't mind that the search doesn't work with passworded galleries, everything is arranged in a logical order and is easy to find. Smugmugs hierarchy of categories, sub-categories and galleries works very well and forces me to not make photos too deep in the file structure.
My other personal/work site is the same. All the family and friends photos are passworded and all the other work photos are keyworded.
It might be a case of working with whats there, rather than jumping up and down and complaining that everything to do with security is broken because it doesn't match your particular requirements.
Andrew
So because you don't have any problems I should just stop jumping up and down and complaining. This is the smugmug SUPPORT forum not the smugmug IDONTHAVEANYPROBLEMS forum.
So because you don't have any problems I should just stop jumping up and down and complaining. This is the smugmug SUPPORT forum not the smugmug IDONTHAVEANYPROBLEMS forum.
So because you don't have any problems I should just stop jumping up and down and complaining. This is the smugmug SUPPORT forum not the smugmug IDONTHAVEANYPROBLEMS forum.
It might be a case of working with whats there, rather than jumping up and down and complaining that everything to do with security is broken because it doesn't match your particular requirements.
You have provided such a tremendous amount of insight to this thread.
If the Smugmug system isn't working for you, you have 2 choices.
Go somewhere else.
Work with whats there.
I have no problem with you jumping up and down to request features.
I'm saying that I worked with how Smugmug works and found a way to implement what I wanted to do. I had to make a couple of compromises but I have a system that I am happy with.
So what are you going to do if Smugmug can't implement what you are requesting for technical reasons ?
I have no problem with you jumping up and down to request features.
I'm saying that I worked with how Smugmug works and found a way to implement what I wanted to do. I had to make a couple of compromises but I have a system that I am happy with.
Good for you. Move along. There's nothing for you to see here then.
interesting.... ok, I changed my lastname to gooblldeegook (but spelled differently) ... My real lastname is still bringing up my site via search, but I will give it time for the search indexing to update and try again tomorrow.
FYI: my site is still displayed when using Smugmug search on my real last name....
Here's a new one. And I have my entire sm acct locked down (and I'm not logged in, cookies are cleared)
Do a google search like allinurl: yoursmnickname sspopup
Click on the indexed link and it'll go to the password page (like it's supposed to)
Click on the cached link and it will load images from that gallery in
a slideshow.
The gallery was once public but had been changed to private and my entire sm site locked down. edit: and my nickname changed, this was a search result from my old nickname.
Just to be clear, my acct is locked down, and the google cache is loading pictures from my gallery (specifically from upload.smugmug.com).
Here's a new one. And I have my entire sm acct locked down (and I'm not logged in, cookies are cleared)
Do a google search like allinurl: yoursmnickname sspopup
Click on the indexed link and it'll go to the password page (like it's supposed to)
Click on the cached link and it will load images from that gallery in
a slideshow.
Can you be more specific, I can't reproduce with what you've given, thanks.
Also, doing a google search for "allinurl: yoursmnickname newexif" does something similar.
Again my acct is locked down.
Right - well the reason they have it in the first place is that you were Publicly searchable at one point, and google caches stuff. That sspopup (it's the full screen slideshow) is being served from google's computers, not ours.
The reason you can pop in an image ID and construct a url is that you have external links enabled. Turn them off in your galleries and folks can't see the photos.
Right - well the reason they have it in the first place is that you were Publicly searchable at one point, and google caches stuff. That sspopup (it's the full screen slideshow) is being served from google's computers, not ours.
The reason you can pop in an image ID and construct a url is that you have external links enabled. Turn them off in your galleries and folks can't see the photos.
It is being served from smugmug:
1. Do the google search as described
2. Load the cached result
3. In safari go to "window > activity", and you can see the images being loaded from upload.smugmug.com
So even though my site is in full lockdown, I still have to go in and disable ext links?
It is being served from smugmug:
1. Do the google search as described
2. Load the cached result
3. In safari go to "window > activity", and you can see the images being loaded from upload.smugmug.com
So even though my site is in full lockdown, I still have to go in and disable ext links?
Sorry- I went to our product manager and checked - the images are not coming from upload.smugmug.com they are coming from google's cache, which we can't control, I wish we could.
Yeah, you should disable your external links, that's a key component of this if you are concerned about image security.
I'm sorry Andy but your product manager is wrong, I'm watching it load every image one by one from upload.smugmug.com in safari's activity window (not from google which is 64.233.167.104)
In IE and firefox do a view source and again you can see the images are coming from upload.smugmug.com not google.
Disabling external links doesn't stop the slideshow
I'm sorry Andy but your product manager is wrong, I'm watching it load every image one by one from upload.smugmug.com in safari's activity window (not from google which is 64.233.167.104)
In IE and firefox do a view source and again you can see the images are coming from upload.smugmug.com not google.
I've asked Ben to post here. Thanks for your patience.
Disabling external links doesn't stop the slideshow[/QUOTE]
I didn't say that it would, that's just good practice is all I was saying. Stay tuned, thanks!
Yup... looks like it. Usually when we see images still displayed in google cache, it is because they have cached it and are displaying it (which is out of our hands), but it looks like it doesn't do that for the current fullscreen slideshow. It looks like there is a permissions issue with cached versions of the slideshow code, where the permissions have since changed. If that is the case, it would only affect cases like this... but either way I will get it added to the bug list so it can get fixed.
Hmmm, it seems to be doing that with ALL my cached galleries on google that was once public, not just slideshows, even though now those galleries are set to private and my entire smugmug password protected.
Ultimately I thought password protecting my entire acct would be the end all, but it seems not.
Deleteing my galleries is not yet an option since google still has those indexed (meaning they haven't crawled back yet) those galleries need to exist in order for the proper meta tags can be seen by google to remove them from indexing. If I delete, they'll just end up getting forwarded to www.smugmug.com and then there would be no possible way to get de-indexed.
Let me restate. It's a catch 22, to get de-indexed by galleries have to exist.
For any page to get de-indexed google needs to see one of the following:
1. the robots meta tag
2. a robots.txt
3. a 404 error (page no longer exists) via htaccess
As of now, I only have control of the robots meta tag when I password protect.
If I delete my galleries google will never see any of those conditions to remove me from their index because it just gets forwarded to www.smugmug.com and will never see a noindex, nofollow meta tag.
If I don't delete so google sees the noindex, nofollow tag, people can still get to my galleries thru what's cache because of smugmug's file permission issues.
This does NOT work for smugmug for two reasons (and your smugmug galleries will never get de-indexed):
1. smugmug doesn't allow you to control the robots.txt file
2. smugmug forces the meta tag:
META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="ALL, INDEX, FOLLOW"
which conflicts if you add the required meta tag to remove:
META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="NOINDEX, NOFOLLOW"
FWIW, Google says (url below) that if there are multiple commands it uses the most restrictive. So presumably if you have both META tags, it'll use the NOINDEX, NOFOLLOW. You should test it though to be sure that's the behavior in your specific case, using the google webmaster tools.
Of course just because google operates this way doesn't mean that any other webcrawler does. The robots.txt stuff has some undefined areas and anyone is free to use their own search crawler with their own option settings anyway.
So even if you did tell all of them to ignore your pages, the only *real* way to keep pervs out of somewhere is to password-protect it. Strictly private url may work for many cases, but only login control is definite.
...If I delete my galleries google will never see any of those conditions to remove me from their index because it just gets forwarded to www.smugmug.com and will never see a noindex, nofollow meta tag.
If I don't delete so google sees the noindex, nofollow tag, people can still get to my galleries thru what's cache because of smugmug's file permission issues.
Have you tried contacting google directly on this? Their webmaster tools are providing better ways for webmasters to see what exactly google is doing for their sites and to control that, and to contact google about problems.
If you've talked to google, what did they say?
jeff
Thanks for the comments. I took a look at the webmasters tools and it tells me what's been indexed in a more organized manner.
I've going to town with google's url automatic remover submitting 100 or so at a time but it just seems the more I submit to remove, the more hits popup and with pages I have no control over like /keywords, /hack, /sspopup, etc.
I have not personally spoken with anyone from google but I'm sure they would just refer me to the url remover page (which shows you how to add the proper meta tags and robots.txt file).
I do have my entire site locked down with a password, but the issue I have now is you can still get to my photos thru the cached results (see Ben's post above).
The only thing I can do now is to delete all my photos but just keep those galleries empty.
Another wierd thing that has come up is someone picked up my old smugmug nick and if you click on the indexed URL, the text of my gallery is meshed with his smugmug account.
Hi Duck - Ouch, I see that you are upset- I'll be sure that Anne McBean, who writes our pages, sees this. We'll certainly take your comments to heart, thanks for posting them.
Comments
Agree. This is single feature that I most desire.
I don't mind that the search doesn't work with passworded galleries, everything is arranged in a logical order and is easy to find. Smugmugs hierarchy of categories, sub-categories and galleries works very well and forces me to not make photos too deep in the file structure.
My other personal/work site is the same. All the family and friends photos are passworded and all the other work photos are keyworded.
It might be a case of working with whats there, rather than jumping up and down and complaining that everything to do with security is broken because it doesn't match your particular requirements.
Andrew
So because you don't have any problems I should just stop jumping up and down and complaining. This is the smugmug SUPPORT forum not the smugmug IDONTHAVEANYPROBLEMS forum.
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Andrew
You have provided such a tremendous amount of insight to this thread.
And....?
Be seeing you,
The Duck
Go somewhere else.
Work with whats there.
I have no problem with you jumping up and down to request features.
I'm saying that I worked with how Smugmug works and found a way to implement what I wanted to do. I had to make a couple of compromises but I have a system that I am happy with.
So what are you going to do if Smugmug can't implement what you are requesting for technical reasons ?
Andrew
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=490543&postcount=6&highlight=only+things
Good for you. Move along. There's nothing for you to see here then.
http://coppermine-gallery.net/index.php
http://gallery.menalto.com/
FYI: my site is still displayed when using Smugmug search on my real last name....
I'm referring to this discussion:
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=491920&postcount=23
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hey.. it fell off!
"one small step for man... one giant leap for..." ahhh, better save that for something bigger!
Do a google search like allinurl: yoursmnickname sspopup
Click on the indexed link and it'll go to the password page (like it's supposed to)
Click on the cached link and it will load images from that gallery in
a slideshow.
The gallery was once public but had been changed to private and my entire sm site locked down. edit: and my nickname changed, this was a search result from my old nickname.
Just to be clear, my acct is locked down, and the google cache is loading pictures from my gallery (specifically from upload.smugmug.com).
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I'll pm you the google search results.
Again my acct is locked down.
The reason you can pop in an image ID and construct a url is that you have external links enabled. Turn them off in your galleries and folks can't see the photos.
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It is being served from smugmug:
1. Do the google search as described
2. Load the cached result
3. In safari go to "window > activity", and you can see the images being loaded from upload.smugmug.com
So even though my site is in full lockdown, I still have to go in and disable ext links?
edit:Disabling links doesn't stop the slideshow.
Yeah, you should disable your external links, that's a key component of this if you are concerned about image security.
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In IE and firefox do a view source and again you can see the images are coming from upload.smugmug.com not google.
Disabling external links doesn't stop the slideshow
Disabling external links doesn't stop the slideshow[/QUOTE]
I didn't say that it would, that's just good practice is all I was saying. Stay tuned, thanks!
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Yup... looks like it. Usually when we see images still displayed in google cache, it is because they have cached it and are displaying it (which is out of our hands), but it looks like it doesn't do that for the current fullscreen slideshow. It looks like there is a permissions issue with cached versions of the slideshow code, where the permissions have since changed. If that is the case, it would only affect cases like this... but either way I will get it added to the bug list so it can get fixed.
Sorry for the inconvenience.:cry
Ultimately I thought password protecting my entire acct would be the end all, but it seems not.
Deleteing my galleries is not yet an option since google still has those indexed (meaning they haven't crawled back yet) those galleries need to exist in order for the proper meta tags can be seen by google to remove them from indexing. If I delete, they'll just end up getting forwarded to www.smugmug.com and then there would be no possible way to get de-indexed.
Let me restate. It's a catch 22, to get de-indexed by galleries have to exist.
For any page to get de-indexed google needs to see one of the following:
1. the robots meta tag
2. a robots.txt
3. a 404 error (page no longer exists) via htaccess
As of now, I only have control of the robots meta tag when I password protect.
If I delete my galleries google will never see any of those conditions to remove me from their index because it just gets forwarded to www.smugmug.com and will never see a noindex, nofollow meta tag.
If I don't delete so google sees the noindex, nofollow tag, people can still get to my galleries thru what's cache because of smugmug's file permission issues.
FWIW, Google says (url below) that if there are multiple commands it uses the most restrictive. So presumably if you have both META tags, it'll use the NOINDEX, NOFOLLOW. You should test it though to be sure that's the behavior in your specific case, using the google webmaster tools.
Official Google Webmaster Central Blog: Using the robots meta tag
http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2007/03/using-robots-meta-tag.html
(good details for how google interprets them)
Of course just because google operates this way doesn't mean that any other webcrawler does. The robots.txt stuff has some undefined areas and anyone is free to use their own search crawler with their own option settings anyway.
So even if you did tell all of them to ignore your pages, the only *real* way to keep pervs out of somewhere is to password-protect it. Strictly private url may work for many cases, but only login control is definite.
jeff
Have you tried contacting google directly on this? Their webmaster tools are providing better ways for webmasters to see what exactly google is doing for their sites and to control that, and to contact google about problems.
If you've talked to google, what did they say?
jeff
Thanks for the comments. I took a look at the webmasters tools and it tells me what's been indexed in a more organized manner.
I've going to town with google's url automatic remover submitting 100 or so at a time but it just seems the more I submit to remove, the more hits popup and with pages I have no control over like /keywords, /hack, /sspopup, etc.
I have not personally spoken with anyone from google but I'm sure they would just refer me to the url remover page (which shows you how to add the proper meta tags and robots.txt file).
I do have my entire site locked down with a password, but the issue I have now is you can still get to my photos thru the cached results (see Ben's post above).
The only thing I can do now is to delete all my photos but just keep those galleries empty.
Another wierd thing that has come up is someone picked up my old smugmug nick and if you click on the indexed URL, the text of my gallery is meshed with his smugmug account.
I just want to get de-indexed.
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
I still see that same text about robbing a bank on http://www.smugmug.com/help/private-photo-storage .
While I do want search engines to index my pages, I find this wordage to be insulting as well. Will it ever be changed?
Look through my eyes on Cultural Surfaces! - customizing... currently in a state between limbo and chaos
I'm sorry you are unhappy with our help page wording.
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