Events question

divamum · June 17, 2015

Somebody has approached me to shoot a (classical) concert series for their private music school.

In theory, no problem - it'll be pretty easy to shoot, I should think. But they mention, "Please send along your rates to shoot one (or both) events and provide all the raw images in digital format. "

What do we think the "raw files" means? I don't give out raws to ANYBODY. Full resolution to people who have paid for them, sure. But not *raw*. Is this is just a non-photographer mis-using the word, or....? I'm actually ok with doing the gig as it won't take that much time and I could use some $ right now, but thoughts on how to respond to this?

T. Bombadil · June 17, 2015

I suspect they have an amateur photog on staff or advising them. Got to assume they mean what they say (really want unprocessed raw files).

Suggest you tell them what you told us: full res but no raw (unless you are interested in selling the work done to capture, and maybe want to insist that your name not be attached to whatever they think is finished product).

divamum wrote: »

Somebody has approached me to shoot a (classical) concert series for their private music school.

In theory, no problem - it'll be pretty easy to shoot, I should think. But they mention, "Please send along your rates to shoot one (or both) events and provide all the raw images in digital format. "

What do we think the "raw files" means? I don't give out raws to ANYBODY. Full resolution to people who have paid for them, sure. But not *raw*. Is this is just a non-photographer mis-using the word, or....? I'm actually ok with doing the gig as it won't take that much time and I could use some $ right now, but thoughts on how to respond to this?

Hackbone · June 17, 2015

I'm fuzzy on the rules but when a company contacts you to "work for hire" they own everything and I mean everything. You loose all rights.

refer to here http://copyright.gov/circs/circ09.pdf

divamum · June 17, 2015

Hackbone wrote: »

I'm fuzzy on the rules but when a company contacts you to "work for hire" they own everything and I mean everything. You loose all rights.

refer to here http://copyright.gov/circs/circ09.pdf

Is that true for things such as kids' sporting events? I think this is comparable to that situation ....

Sam · June 17, 2015

OH boy,

First it's not work for hire unless specifically stated in writing. IE: in the contract.

Next.................Talk to the client. Start by telling them you would love to shoot their event. Let them know of your experience. Ask pertinent questions, how long is the event, how many people, what is expected, use of images.

Ask what they expect as deliverables. Find out if they know what RAW files are. Find out why they are asking for the RAW files. They may not really know what the RAW files are and may not understand the RAW files need post processing.

The idea here is to start on a positive note discussing their needs and how you can meet them. I wouldn't start the conversation with a negative, and / or potentially contentious subject of the RAW files.

If all else fails explain you are responsible for the final images, and you will deliver full res images suitable for web or print use, but you don't provide your RAW files.

Sam

divamum · June 17, 2015

They have approached me - I'm pretty sure where they got my name, so I don't feel a strong need to "sell". Honestly, this event sounds like it may be more trouble than it's worth, but it could also lead to more headshots work, so I won't turn it down right away. I was thinking something along the lines of:

"Thanks for your enquiry. I do have those dates available. Could you let me me know a little more about the kinds of images you have in mind, and how they would be used (ie studio advertising and promotion, performer/parental purchase etc)? Let me have some more details, and I'm happy to put together a quote for you!

I do not typically release raw format files to clients (ie .cr2 which are effectively unprocessed digital negatives), but I do provide full-resolution jpgs. I spent two seasons as the official photographer for Similar Organisation X and you can see some of the galleries I delivered to them at Link Y".

Thoughts?

jonh68 · June 18, 2015

I think that is a good approach. It is very freeing when you set your terms and then they can take it or leave it.

Hackbone · June 18, 2015

Remember to set a time limit. Those events always run way, did I say way over time, and they expect you to work for free. Also what to do about makeups. There will always be a group or several persons who will miss the date/time and they will expect you to do them at a later date for free. Don't mean to be harsh but I've seen it all happen.

I had an issue with a business man who was alarmed that the file given him was only 2 to 4 megs. He saw a 20 meg camera an expected a file out of photo shop to be that size. I had to explain to him that isn't the way it works. I even had a problem with a bill board company who did not understand that.

Sam · June 18, 2015

Just a random thought.

Choice:

A. Raw files= ones and zeros (lots and lots of them.)

1. No guarantee, cost is double and I deny any involvement with the images.

B. Raw files + powerful computer + color calibrated monitor + terabytes of backup +
several image editing software packages + years of experience = Great images
(in a variety of file formats, jpg, tif. psd, png) to cherish for a lifetime.

1. I am proud to offer this and totally stand behind and guarantee the results!

Sam

D3Sshooter · June 18, 2015

I would say stuff it. RAW is like handing over the bleuprints of a house.
Of course they want that, so they can build the house on your work.
The only reason they want RAW is because they want to manipulate / work / process your picture. And that is to me totally unacceptable. The picture and the processing is your creation, someone who goes out and processes someone else's picture (RAW) is committing a copy right violation. At least where I live a picture can not be modified or altered as part of the portret and copy right act unless permission is given by the owner/creator of the initial picture.

So in short, I would not pass it. Or I would do it with a written agreement that the picture may not be manipulated and or processed in whatever manner. Just wonder what they will say....

Just my view.....

divamum · June 18, 2015

Hack, I think they want performance shots of the concerts rather than anything which could be "made up" as such.

I responded, and am waiting to hear what they say.....

Hackbone · June 18, 2015

On any type of "professional" concert they usually give you three songs of total access then restrict your moving terribly. Not sure of what type of concert you are speaking about but just giving you food for thought.

divamum · June 18, 2015

It's a music school - I'm assuming it's some kind of student recital. I did ask for further details on that and more, so we'll see......

divamum · June 18, 2015

(And the professional gigs I do (as musician)wont allow any photos during performance - it's dress rehearsal or nothing!!

)

divamum · June 19, 2015

Annnddd... very reasonable answers.

""Maybe 'raw' isn't the right description of what I mean-- as an effort to keep this on the budget-friendly end of things, I'm suggesting minimal or no editing before sending us photos (as mentioned, we're used to manipulating the images ourselves later after ripping them from film... this a big, overdue upgrade), but I also understand you don't want to have your work misrepresented."

The real question to me is the one about manipulating images (asterisked). I have no problem with crops or colour edits to fit with company branding (eg conversion to sepia/bw for a brochure), but I'm not crazy about the idea of much photosop-o. Then again, if they buy them, they're theirs and if the "bones" of the shots are good, it won't really matter. I don't do artistic editing to this type of work anyway, so shouldn't be a big deal... or should it?

Also, this is commercial usage, but not "big time commercial". Not sure how to ensure that's part of the fee and contract? Getting outside my experience and comfort zone on that part of things. Not even sure how I'd word it yet.

"As far as our expected studio uses go, I anticipate using these images in newsletters, blog posts, perhaps in some online advertising campaigns, etc ****What would your standard terms be with regard to manipulating your images?**** We also like to hang them up around the studio, of course (and will gladly post credit!) in their 'official' photographer-approved format.

Now have to figure out how to price it, as I don't have a flat event rate. My hunch is to go with a flat fee for up to 3hrs to cover shoot+ commercial usage (2 hr recital + 30 minutes before/after for the candids they want), and overage @ $X per half hour. Any print/download sales are a bonus; I don't want to rely on those to make my money. But pricing that flat fee is going to be interesting...........! They're in a super-wealthy area, but nobody in the music-teaching biz is typically making much money so I don't want to price gouge!

I think I would like to do this, as they also want a headshot package for staff. But have to figure out this end of it first. Thoughts?

mercphoto · June 19, 2015

divamum wrote: »

Somebody has approached me to shoot a (classical) concert series for their private music school.

In theory, no problem - it'll be pretty easy to shoot, I should think. But they mention, "Please send along your rates to shoot one (or both) events and provide all the raw images in digital format. "

Tell them you only deliver raw images in paper format, see what they say.

divamum · June 19, 2015

Hi folks! Have continued this thread in "Mind your own business" - please feel free to chime in here or there

Events question

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