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SmugMug Update From Baldy

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    GargaGarga Registered Users Posts: 67 Big grins
    edited July 30, 2013
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    BaldyBaldy Registered Users, Super Moderators Posts: 2,853 moderator
    edited July 30, 2013
    Thanks smugmug for the new features. Great work.
    My site is renew just written a few steps.
    http://jchmportafolio.infoinnova.net

    What I miss is to put put some javascript for customizations. I hope that feature remains in the future.[/i]
    We worked really hard to include JavaScript in this release but a few months ago we faced the reality that at least for this release, we wouldn't be able to. It was excruciating to go back to people like jfriend, who was under NDA, and tell him.

    The question is what things are you looking for JavaScript to do that you can't do now on the new SmugMug? We ask because there are a lot of really tough issues involved in exposing JavaScript. One of them, for example, is we got frozen by the installed base on legacy SmugMug because we'd try to update something with the galleries and find it broke a JavaScript hack that people had installed. Another is one of the bigger loads on the support heroes is chasing down JavaScript hacks gone bad.

    But if we know what things you can't do now and want to, we might be able to add those features without the downsides of JavaScript.
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    WinsomeWorksWinsomeWorks Registered Users Posts: 1,935 Major grins
    edited July 30, 2013
    Baldy wrote: »
    We worked really hard to include JavaScript in this release but a few months ago we faced the reality that at least for this release, we wouldn't be able to. It was excruciating to go back to people like jfriend, who was under NDA, and tell him.

    The question is what things are you looking for JavaScript to do that you can't do now on the new SmugMug? We ask because there are a lot of really tough issues involved in exposing JavaScript. One of them, for example, is we got frozen by the installed base on legacy SmugMug because we'd try to update something with the galleries and find it broke a JavaScript hack that people had installed. Another is one of the bigger loads on the support heroes is chasing down JavaScript hacks gone bad.

    But if we know what things you can't do now and want to, we might be able to add those features without the downsides of JavaScript.

    You could probably start by simply looking at the entire list of major Javascript hacks. There were more than one list, I know, but there were a few very helpful people like JFriend who had a whole list that gazillions of people used, so you can see already that those would be things to start with, if not available otherwise in the new Smug version. A few things that come to my mind right away that have been invaluable:

    -- Seeing a red "X" over a hidden photo in our galleries if we want (would be even better if this red X showed up everywhere the thumb is displayed when logged in.)

    -- Ability to move buttons to where they make more sense on one's site

    -- Whatever parts of the JFriend Slideshow (or the other amazing slideshows here) that had Javascript parts as well as HTML5 etc...

    Goodness, I can't begin to think of all of them... there are so many... I'd say, just look at those lists and assume thousands of your customers still want those capabilities.
    Anna Lisa Yoder's Images - http://winsomeworks.com ... Handmade Photo Notecards: http://winsomeworks.etsy.com ... Framed/Matted work: http://anna-lisa-yoder.artistwebsites.com/galleries.html ... Scribbles: http://winsomeworks.blogspot.com
    DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
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    AllenAllen Registered Users Posts: 10,011 Major grins
    edited July 30, 2013
    Ann McRae wrote: »
    Hi Allen

    For your breadcrumb: open the customize mode, then hover over your breadcrumb so that the tools pop up. Click the wrench so that the settings open for you. You can then choose how much of the items in the breadcrumb are revealed, as well as the weight of the text.

    When you are adding content blocks and want that content (nav bar) on all pages then you need to make sure that you have "entire site" highlighted. That puts the content you are adding onto every page, current and future, on your site.
    I want a different banner for every category. How is that done?

    There was no breadcrumb to click on the wrench.
    Got the breadcrumb back but I want it site wide under my nav and banner.
    Al - Just a volunteer here having fun
    My Website index | My Blog
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    denisegoldbergdenisegoldberg Administrators Posts: 14,240 moderator
    edited July 30, 2013
    Andy wrote: »
    You can complain, it's your right. Or you could use the time to just "DO IT" and make a new site that's a billion times better than your old site. It's NOT HARD
    I was amazed at how quickly my new site came together... I'm very happy.

    --- Denise
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    bbeck4x4bbeck4x4 Registered Users Posts: 159 Major grins
    edited July 30, 2013
    Baldy wrote: »
    We worked really hard to include JavaScript in this release but a few months ago we faced the reality that at least for this release, we wouldn't be able to. It was excruciating to go back to people like jfriend, who was under NDA, and tell him.

    The question is what things are you looking for JavaScript to do that you can't do now on the new SmugMug? We ask because there are a lot of really tough issues involved in exposing JavaScript. One of them, for example, is we got frozen by the installed base on legacy SmugMug because we'd try to update something with the galleries and find it broke a JavaScript hack that people had installed. Another is one of the bigger loads on the support heroes is chasing down JavaScript hacks gone bad.

    But if we know what things you can't do now and want to, we might be able to add those features without the downsides of JavaScript.


    the slideshow transitions and the ability to place a slideshow on any html page.

    One problem at the moment is that on my custom html pages, the new html box is not allowing me to have <li> </li> tags, I can type them but then they are gone when I close the edit screen.
    Brian Beck
    Spanish Fork, Utah 84660- 360 Virtual Tours - Landscapes
    Google + Facebook Website
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    paulbrockpaulbrock Registered Users Posts: 515 Major grins
    edited July 30, 2013
    Baldy wrote: »
    But if we know what things you can't do now and want to, we might be able to add those features without the downsides of JavaScript.

    Functionality I would like to port over from old SM but can't because of no Javascript:

    - Google +1 button (massive oversight not including this - V important for SEO)
    - Wufoo forms. the default Smugmug contact form is rubbish and not good enough for people running businesses. It offers zero customisation. Alternately return the ability to add iframes.

    Thanks.
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    SergeBerrardVisualsSergeBerrardVisuals Registered Users Posts: 177 Major grins
    edited July 30, 2013
    Baldy wrote: »
    But if we know what things you can't do now and want to, we might be able to add those features without the downsides of JavaScript.

    Most of my galleries descriptions, including my homepage, have a specific line of code in order to embed a music player and to play music from an external site. This does not work now in "preview" mode.
    In addition, testing the "preview" mode and just switching a gallery style from "thumbnails" to "smugmug", removed ^^ this line of code in my gallery description not only in preview mode but in legacy mode too ^^.
    Somebody could advise please ?
    By the way, congratulations and thanks for this new beautiful system implementation.
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    JL PhotoJL Photo Registered Users Posts: 60 Big grins
    edited July 30, 2013
    Baldy wrote: »
    We worked really hard to include JavaScript in this release but a few months ago we faced the reality that at least for this release, we wouldn't be able to. It was excruciating to go back to people like jfriend, who was under NDA, and tell him.

    The question is what things are you looking for JavaScript to do that you can't do now on the new SmugMug? We ask because there are a lot of really tough issues involved in exposing JavaScript. One of them, for example, is we got frozen by the installed base on legacy SmugMug because we'd try to update something with the galleries and find it broke a JavaScript hack that people had installed. Another is one of the bigger loads on the support heroes is chasing down JavaScript hacks gone bad.

    But if we know what things you can't do now and want to, we might be able to add those features without the downsides of JavaScript.

    The first hurdle I come to is that I have no control over gallery slide shows. I have control over my homepage slideshow, why can't I customize my Galleries? I suspect the slideshows are Flash. I would prefer HTML5 which is what i liked about JFriend slideshow.
    www.jdleech.com Houston, TX
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    AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited July 30, 2013
    I was amazed at how quickly my new site came together... I'm very happy.

    --- Denise

    clap.gif GORGEOUS!

    And you don't have to custom code "bigger thumbs" thumb.gif
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    denisegoldbergdenisegoldberg Administrators Posts: 14,240 moderator
    edited July 30, 2013
    Andy wrote: »
    clap.gif GORGEOUS!
    Thanks Andy!

    It was a huge plus to be able to get rid of the custom code for larger thumbs!

    I just posted a review on my blog, http://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-new-smugmug.html.

    --- Denise
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    racerracer Registered Users Posts: 333 Major grins
    edited July 30, 2013
    Baldy wrote: »
    We worked really hard to include JavaScript in this release but a few months ago we faced the reality that at least for this release, we wouldn't be able to. It was excruciating to go back to people like jfriend, who was under NDA, and tell him.

    The question is what things are you looking for JavaScript to do that you can't do now on the new SmugMug? We ask because there are a lot of really tough issues involved in exposing JavaScript. One of them, for example, is we got frozen by the installed base on legacy SmugMug because we'd try to update something with the galleries and find it broke a JavaScript hack that people had installed. Another is one of the bigger loads on the support heroes is chasing down JavaScript hacks gone bad.

    But if we know what things you can't do now and want to, we might be able to add those features without the downsides of JavaScript.

    Then you simply stop giving support to custom javascript and other advanced option. Maybe a warning message when you enter script that smugmug does not give support for this option. You dont **** your customers simply because you dont want to deal with them anymore. It is so dumb to even be debating over this, since it such a simple option to have kept in this new design!

    You will be loosing many loyal customers once there custom site breaks in x number of months, just like the flickr redesign, a backlash that you said you wanted to avoid. It is inevitable unless you allow them the means to design a equivalent to what they have currently.
    Todd - My Photos
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    PrezwoodzPrezwoodz Registered Users Posts: 1,147 Major grins
    edited July 30, 2013
    racer wrote: »
    Then you simply stop giving support to custom javascript and other advanced option. Maybe a warning message when you enter script that smugmug does not give support for this option. You dont **** your customers simply because you dont want to deal with them anymore. It is so dumb to even be debating over this, since it such a simple option to have kept in this new design!

    You will be loosing many loyal customers once there custom site breaks in x number of months, just like the flickr redesign, a backlash that you said you wanted to avoid. It is inevitable unless you allow them the means to design a equivalent to what they have currently.

    I've never talked with someone at Smugmug and been told "we don't give support for that". I really don't think its about not wanting to deal with them anymore, after all he did throw out the offer of trying to develop sections for previous javascript hacks.

    I am having a hard time with the new redesign because from what I have seen so far it doesn't allow me to have my site how I had it before. I can't seem to organize it as I would like. But I also know that these guys just unveiled this thing yesterday. Shouldn't we give them a chance? There is an innate fear in change, but theres also a great advantage to patience.
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    racerracer Registered Users Posts: 333 Major grins
    edited July 30, 2013
    Prezwoodz wrote: »
    But I also know that these guys just unveiled this thing yesterday. Shouldn't we give them a chance? There is an innate fear in change, but theres also a great advantage to patience.

    No, not when they are limiting our time to change over. It dosnt seem like fear in people, but more the question of should I stay or should I go? Like many people using a smugmug custom site, I already have a hosted blog, so it is really easy to cancel my account on smugmug, and simply create a custom wordpress site that has everything I want, and keep my same look. It makes me question why I would continue paying for smugmug
    Todd - My Photos
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    TalkieTTalkieT Registered Users Posts: 491 Major grins
    edited July 31, 2013
    Baldy wrote: »
    [snip]
    The question is what things are you looking for JavaScript to do that you can't do now on the new SmugMug? [snip]


    Killing JS kills me... There are so many things on my site that use it, including the MOST IMPORTANT FUNCTIONAL REQUIREMENT.

    Paypal. I use JS to craft a response that includes a filename for the paypal submission and I use JS to move the paypal buttons to a nice spot on the page.

    Your shopping cart isn't suitable for me, and despite recent half hearted foreign currency support, it's not suitable for MANY international pros. I need to use an external payment processor.

    I also do a lot of other stuff with JS, but if you effectively kill being able to use Paypal then that's the last straw.

    I've been here 8 years and spent literally hundreds of hours customising my site... Now it's all down the drain. I feel sick.

    Cheers - N
    --
    http://www.nzsnaps.com (talkiet.smugmug.com)
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    JL PhotoJL Photo Registered Users Posts: 60 Big grins
    edited July 31, 2013
    Baldy wrote: »
    We worked really hard to include JavaScript in this release but a few months ago we faced the reality that at least for this release, we wouldn't be able to. It was excruciating to go back to people like jfriend, who was under NDA, and tell him.

    The question is what things are you looking for JavaScript to do that you can't do now on the new SmugMug? We ask because there are a lot of really tough issues involved in exposing JavaScript. One of them, for example, is we got frozen by the installed base on legacy SmugMug because we'd try to update something with the galleries and find it broke a JavaScript hack that people had installed. Another is one of the bigger loads on the support heroes is chasing down JavaScript hacks gone bad.

    But if we know what things you can't do now and want to, we might be able to add those features without the downsides of JavaScript.

    Here is a graphic to illustrate what I consider the correct way to display images in a slide show. Just like an old slide projector for those of us who remember film. If someone had tried to market a slide projector that cropped 2/3 of every vertical image it never would have sold. Every gallery on every theme should have this option.

    The homepage slideshow will do this, gallery will not

    Thanks for all your hard work Baldy. I am really hoping I can find a way to get the new Smugmug to work for me.
    www.jdleech.com Houston, TX
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    billandersbillanders Registered Users Posts: 15 Big grins
    edited July 31, 2013
    Great show, Team!
    Great show, Team!

    I'd been gnashing my teeth for a month or so to customize and set up my web site. But once the announcement of the announcement came out, I sat tight to see. I got the blog post this morning a few hours before the video and started playing. I've got more done in the past 12 hours than I have the past few weeks!

    There are some oddities that I'm finding, but I'll sit tight and let you work through the migration and other issues.

    Thanks!
    Bill
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    WinsomeWorksWinsomeWorks Registered Users Posts: 1,935 Major grins
    edited July 31, 2013
    JL Photo wrote: »
    Here is a graphic to illustrate what I consider the correct way to display images in a slide show. Just like an old slide projector for those of us who remember film. If someone had tried to market a slide projector that cropped 2/3 of every vertical image it never would have sold. Every gallery on every theme should have this option.

    Thanks for all your hard work Baldy. I am really hoping I can find a way to get the new Smugmug to work for me.
    AMEN!!! (and OH n-n-o-o... it really does that? Crops the verticals? Makes me want to scream)
    Anna Lisa Yoder's Images - http://winsomeworks.com ... Handmade Photo Notecards: http://winsomeworks.etsy.com ... Framed/Matted work: http://anna-lisa-yoder.artistwebsites.com/galleries.html ... Scribbles: http://winsomeworks.blogspot.com
    DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
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    BigRedBigRed Registered Users Posts: 288 Major grins
    edited July 31, 2013
    Baldy wrote: »
    We worked really hard to include JavaScript in this release but a few months ago we faced the reality that at least for this release, we wouldn't be able to. It was excruciating to go back to people like jfriend, who was under NDA, and tell him.

    The question is what things are you looking for JavaScript to do that you can't do now on the new SmugMug? We ask because there are a lot of really tough issues involved in exposing JavaScript. One of them, for example, is we got frozen by the installed base on legacy SmugMug because we'd try to update something with the galleries and find it broke a JavaScript hack that people had installed. Another is one of the bigger loads on the support heroes is chasing down JavaScript hacks gone bad.

    But if we know what things you can't do now and want to, we might be able to add those features without the downsides of JavaScript.

    Wouldn't it be more efficient, proactive, and customer-oriented for the SM design team to tell us which of the major JS hacks have been incorporated into the new design, and to recommend solutions (e.g., release 2, or even workflow changes) for the rest? At least for those standard hacks which are either SM-recommended or stickied in the Customization forum.

    But, more importantly, this is not about "what things we can't do now and want to" -- it's about what things we CAN do now but can't in the future. That includes both the specific hacks that have already been coded and the general functionality of being able to customize much faster than SM can develop. Because this loss of functionality is such a big deal for some SM subscribers (and especially because there was no warning of it coming, not even in the 2011 "sneak peek" design), SM needs to go the extra mile to accommodate their needs.

    Naturally, those needs trickle down. We each have our own customer base that we're responsible for understanding, and we're just trying to do the best possible job of change management for them.

    So please reconsider reinstating the dropped JS functionality (and assist the coders with the necessary translations) or at least design in the specific functionality of the existing hacks -- before the migration deadline. The mere possibility of reinstating the features at some indefinite future date is not a solution to this problem.
    http://www.janicebrowne.com - Janice Browne Nature Art & Photography
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    davidmedinadavidmedina Registered Users Posts: 55 Big grins
    edited July 31, 2013
    muahahahahahahaaaaaa!

    *feeling incredibly sorry for impatient people who jumped ship* if i learned anything from nikon, it's that slow and steady always wins the race. wings.gifivarbowdown.gif
    racer wrote: »
    sure, the new smugmug looks great, and i could have a sleek smugmug site that will soon looks like a billion other sleek smugmug sites. You know exactly what i am complaining about, it is the lose of the advanced customizations we had before. We all dont want to look like moonriverphotography you know.

    amen!
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    LPCLPC Registered Users Posts: 481 Major grins
    edited July 31, 2013
    I was amazed at how quickly my new site came together... I'm very happy.

    --- Denise

    Denise, can I ask how you got 'All Photos Copyright Denise Goldberg' on the same level as 'Photo Sharing by Smugmug'?

    I've been trying to do the same on all pages and can't quite work it out.

    Many thanks

    Edit - Done it now - it wasn't possible with the design I tried first but is possible on the one I have settled on!
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    juanherediajuanheredia Registered Users Posts: 345 Major grins
    edited July 31, 2013
    It was a great launching, but as expected there are many questions without an answer.
    I've already migrated my site. What I miss a lot is the option to put JavaScript to make more customizations.

    BTW. I've read comments about the communities. It's a shame that the communities have an uncertain future.
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    taylowataylowa Registered Users Posts: 47 Big grins
    edited July 31, 2013
    I know that I'm a very small photographer so my comments won't count for much. But, I like the new design and for someone who doesn't do a lot with their site I think it will make my site look a whole lot better with little changes. I'm not so upset that "my site won't look the same" and will use this as a "I've updated" time. Yes, there are some things that I don't like and hope will get changed soon. With saying this, when can we expect suggestions that have been on the uservoice site to be taken and added to the new design. There are things I'd like to have seen 2-3 years ago that didn't make this release, but we were told that pretty much only major changes were being made due to the new design. Well, the new design is out there so now it is time to start working hard and fast on the things we photographers want (even us small ones).

    Again, I know my small voice won't be heard too loud but maybe it will touch someone's ear.
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    phaserbeamphaserbeam Registered Users Posts: 452 Major grins
    edited July 31, 2013
    I was watching the webcast yesterday and it was WOOOT! GREAT! A few minutes later i started to play with the new design.

    I first thought i should try to emulate my old homepage (was not that "professional" but it worked for me). Half an hour later i figured out that SmugMug gives me so much new things to play with that i started from scratch and after three more hours it was ready to unveil. It is still very simple and easy but looks better then what i had before or what flickr gave me when they did the relaunch.

    Of course there are some things that are not so... well... good. I understand all the users that had custom JS used before.
    • The only really "annoying" thing here is a browser based issue with Opera when you try to organize your site. If you select a folder/gallery/photo and select edit/settings the selection border stays as garbage on screen on top of the edit/settings dialog. Nothing i'm worried about for now but should be fixed someday.
    • I don't have that many "hidden" photos but yes, hidden photos should not appear in the "Mulitple Photos" content, i can't see it when not logged in except for the dummy/placeholder but i can read the description/title. Bad idea.
    • Some photos/thumbs don't load in time, sometimes a refresh does help.
    A random playing slideshow would also be nice. I had that fullscreen on my homepage but after a while it was boring to see the same first photo again and again every time you visit my homepage.

    Yes, some things are not very intuitive. But much less then after the flickr-update. I really was shocked and unhappy after their update and moved here. Even without a manual i was able to use the new design-editor to customize my site. And me is not a pro on that, i just played with the settings. Thanks to the sandbox without my visitors had to mess with me.

    I'm looking forward to other updates that might come in the future. What i have now fits much better then the legacy style. People that had used custom JS might think different. I had no idea how to use this custom CSS/HTML-code and the new theming thing is so much easier to use for me...

    Thanks for the work! wings.gif
    Markus
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    denisegoldbergdenisegoldberg Administrators Posts: 14,240 moderator
    edited July 31, 2013
    LPC wrote: »
    Denise, can I ask how you got 'All Photos Copyright Denise Goldberg' on the same level as 'Photo Sharing by Smugmug'?

    I've been trying to do the same on all pages and can't quite work it out.
    I didn't do anything special, just placed a page element in the footer - but oops! I just checked that and It's not a text element, it's an HTML/CSS element. There is nothing in the CSS and the HTML just contains the copyright text. I must have been having an issue with using a text box there; the HTML/CSS element did the job for me.

    I set the container width to 25% to limit the space, and I set margins of 12px on all edges of that element.

    --- Denise
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    paulbrockpaulbrock Registered Users Posts: 515 Major grins
    edited July 31, 2013
    BigRed wrote: »
    So please reconsider reinstating the dropped JS functionality (and assist the coders with the necessary translations) or at least design in the specific functionality of the existing hacks -- before the migration deadline. The mere possibility of reinstating the features at some indefinite future date is not a solution to this problem.

    Well said! After 2 years I expected an all singing all dancing site, not a "this looks pretty and is easy to customise, but you'll have to wait for the rest of the functionality you need"
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    paulbrockpaulbrock Registered Users Posts: 515 Major grins
    edited July 31, 2013
    Baldy wrote: »
    But if we know what things you can't do now and want to, we might be able to add those features without the downsides of JavaScript.



    And another one please - customising the right click protection message. It horrible and not what I want paying customers to see.


    Its like when smugmug had technical problems, they'd show a quirky cartoon on my website. I don't wan't quirky on my website. And I don't want authoritarian on my right click message. And I don't want bland and generic in my contact form. For an update focused on total customisation there are quite a few gaps.
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    DJDigitalDaveDJDigitalDave Registered Users Posts: 84 Big grins
    edited July 31, 2013
    Baldy wrote: »

    But if we know what things you can't do now and want to, we might be able to add those features without the downsides of JavaScript.

    For starters, how about being able to change the top-level of the breadcrumb from the homepage to the gallery folders? Why on God's Green Earth would I want the breadcrumb's top-level to point to my homepage when I'm showing the breadcrumb only on the gallery pages so that my viewers can easily navigate among them? I've got a navbar for all the other sections & pages of my site. The top-level not pointing to the main galleries page (okay, the "folders" page) kinda defeats the purpose of the breadcrumb.

    Then there's the question of the inability to highlight the selected link on the navbar.

    And so on, and so on...
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    dennismullendennismullen Registered Users Posts: 709 Major grins
    edited July 31, 2013
    The slideshow should have all the features of the JFriend HTML5 Slideshow.
    I need to be able to click though to the galleries from the home page.
    Where are the various transitions and the choice of Random?

    How do I get my Guestbook to work?

    How do I get my StatCounter code to work again?

    Cheers,
    See my gallery at http://www.dennismullen.com
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    Hog LegHog Leg Registered Users Posts: 105 Major grins
    edited July 31, 2013
    Am I missing something?
    I'm trying to keep an open mind about this but this is a complete redesign of my web site. I was asking for a drink of water and I have been thrown in the ocean. ne_nau.gif

    I am starting the proccess and the frist thing I tryed to do was organize my NAV Bar like my "legacy" site which has drop down in it. I can't seem to find a way to get a drop down and,can you change the width of the nav bar so that it doesn't wrap. This may belong in another thread, I just don't know where to post this. By the way the migration was over 5 and 1/2 hour and I'm not sure all of the galleries are there yet, I'm still wandering around in the dark. They are arranged so differently now I can't tell at this point.
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