Originally Posted by mbellot Last I heard Andy wasn't a SM employee anymore, so his response means little more than any of ours (not official). David - Smugpocalypse, classic.

I remember during the Pricelist change issues that it was done (one of the reasons) so they could pass their photolabs specials on to us so we could pass it on to our customers?? Anyone see that yet? I was repeatedly told (over the phone) that was one of the reasons. Someone from Smugmug want to comment on that?

I have all my emails from Smugmug since I have been a customer (I almost posted "member" like I used to think I was) , support and other wise.. I bet I can reproduce your response if you ever do from one of those old emails..

Originally Posted by Baldy I know that what you'd love and we would too is the $150 commerce account back in some form.

That is it in a nut shell.

With the heat we're taking for not having one anymore, we'd dearly love to offer it, it's just at this time we don't know how. I'm sorry I don't have a better answer for you. Baldy

Easy. Take the Portfolio account, and tick the checkmarks for:

• Set prices and make profit
• Create custom coupons for promotions
• Create custom single and multi-image packages
• Option to adjust photos after receiving orders

That is it. The Portfolio account should have this capability anyway. Because a $90 premium over the Power account just for watermarks, printmarking, and backprinting makes no sense. If you're not selling prints through smugmug, you don't need those features on smugmug.

"But then nobody will upgrade to the Business account," you say? Fine, make your incremental price increase here, and charge $200/yr for this new Portfolio account.

Done.

Even easier.

Take the Portfolio account, and tick the checkmarks for: Set prices and make profit Drop support for: Create custom coupons for promotions Create custom single and multi-image packages "Pro" labs.

And leave it at $150/yr.

If SM wants to start offering the other features as ala carte options for additional cost great, but being able to set prices (IMHO) is the one thing a basic commerce account needs.

I'm ignoring watermarks as a feature because I think EVERY account level should provide the ability to apply custom watermarks, not just the commerce level account(s).

A la carte features probably makes too much sense. I get what you're saying, but shoot a youth sports team or league and you will quickly wish you had coupons or packages. Including them would allow SM to go to the $200 price point fairly. Maybe they would consider offering a Portfolio level at $150, and a Portfolio Plus at $200.

Originally Posted by jmphotocraft That is it in a nut shell. Easy. Take the Portfolio account, and tick the checkmarks for: Set prices and make profit Create custom coupons for promotions Create custom single and multi-image packages That is it. The Portfolio account should have this capability anyway. Because a $90 premium over the Power account just for watermarks, printmarking, and backprinting makes no sense. If you're not selling prints through smugmug, you don't need those features on smugmug. "But then nobody will upgrade to the Business account," you say? Fine, make your incremental price increase here, and charge $200/yr for this new Portfolio account. Done.

Bingo.

Originally Posted by McQ Bingo.

Sorry, I just added

• Option to adjust photos after receiving orders

Because of a few thousand prints sold, I think maybe 5% of my customers ever do their own cropping.

Originally Posted by jmphotocraft A la carte features probably makes too much sense. I get what you're saying, but shoot a youth sports team or league and you will quickly wish you had coupons or packages. Including them would allow SM to go to the $200 price point fairly. Maybe they would consider offering a Portfolio level at $150, and a Portfolio Plus at $200.

I shoot thousands of dance pictures as well as other school performance stuff and coupons have been a HUGE BUST for me. I tried for a year after they came out and not one single customer ever used one.

As for ala carte, of course it makes too much sense for SM to implement. They are much more interested in giving us WHAT THEY THINK WE NEED, regardless of what any of us might actually ask for in a feature.

If they wanted to, they could make an entry level commerce account (for profit pricing, watermarks, standard labs and proof delay) for $150 and then start charging for add-ons. Structure it so that it costs more to have all the extra features ala carte than if you just go for a full Business account, but allow users to decide if they want coupons, packages, pro labs, print marks, etc.

Originally Posted by jmphotocraft Sorry, I just added Option to adjust photos after receiving orders Because of a few thousand prints sold, I think maybe 5% of my customers ever do their own cropping.

Agreed. Proof delay is a must for selling prints, but it's really in SM's best interest to provide it since it prevents them from having to replace photos under their total satisfaction guarantee.

What are you guys calling PRO labs???

Originally Posted by McQ Hey Mike, glad you asked. My questions to Baldy are direct, and address two different things he wrote in his post (#77 in this thread). I already pointed these out, but here they are again. First: "You might wonder what time and size has to do with it because I've mentioned mostly storage and engineering costs, and if you want me to answer I can" I've simply taken him up on his offer. That's number one. Still waiting for him to answer. The second, contained in his same post, was his twice emphasizing that he would both "love to" and "dearly love to" offer a Pro-type commerce account for $150/year. The reason I've written my posts is clear as well, as I've stated that since they'd love to do this, then it follows that it must be a priority for SM to get this done, even though they "haven't figured it out yet". Hope that answers your question.

It does. Thanks. I definitely get the first part. Maybe this is one of those "just because I can, doesn't mean I will..." types of deals.

But this part:

... as I've stated that since they'd love to do this, then it follows that it must be a priority for SM to get this done, even though they "haven't figured it out yet".

is where you and I have very different take-aways from their "we'd love to and it kills us that we can't" statements. You see it as if they'd love to do it then it must be a priority to do it. I see it as, even though they would love to do it, and even though it kills them inside not to, it's not happening.

It's good to know that they are at least talking about it, but...

For the record, I've cancelled my SM account and have moved to ZF. It kills me inside that this was the path that I had to take. I've been a customer here for 6 years, but they have made it very, very clear that my demographic (semi-pro/hobbyist) is not one that they are interested in supporting (or at least not interested enough to actually do it).

I joke with the "kills me inside" comment, but it really is true. I feel like they have turned their backs on customers like me, and that's the reason that I keep coming back to this thread - with hopes of reading that I was wrong. With hopes of seeing answers to questions like yours. I want them to care that a (maybe large?) group of us feel like they have turned their backs on us. I want something more than "we are sad that it has to be this way". But I guess that's not going to happen and it's time to move on for good.

Originally Posted by mbellot Last I heard Andy wasn't a SM employee anymore, so his response means little more than any of ours (not official).

I agree 100%.

Originally Posted by Art Scott What are you guys calling PRO labs???

I assumed it was Bay and WHCC, with EZ prints being the "consumer" print lab (in the US).

Guess I was wroing. From the features page:

Print from our pro labs: Bay Photo, WHCC and EZ Prints.

So apparently all labs are "pro" labs.


I am curious though... If printing from these Pro labs is only a Portfolio/Business level feature, where on earth do the Power and Basic prints come from?

If any of those changes were to happen - then anyone living in the USA could take advantage of it. Living the Australia, it means zip/zero/nothing/not-applicable. The only thing I get for a Portfolio account is custom watermarking. If I could get digital downloads, it would be at least SOMETHING we Australians could use. I have just renewed my account for one more year (Portfolio). By the end of the year, I will have deleted my current galleries and all this year's uploads will be pre-watermarked. I will see what Smugmug come up with over the next year. Then it will be 1) stay at Portfolio if value for money is increased for Australians 2) downgrade to Power and save $90 3) Leave and go somewhere else

Originally Posted by AceCo55 [snip] By the end of the year, I will have deleted my current galleries and all this year's uploads will be pre-watermarked.[snip]

No, for added hilarity, and because it ABSOLUTELY is what Smugmug is driving people to do... LEAVE your fullsize unwatermarked images up and just hide the galleries... Even password them as well if people have links already.

Then just upload another copy of the photos with a watermark to a different gallery...

That way...

- You have a backup of your images
- You can display watermarked images
- It only takes up twice the storage space on Smugmug (NO PROBLEM, it's unlimited remember!)
- It's only incredibly annoying and frustrating to manage

Cheers - N

Originally Posted by mbellot I assumed it was Bay and WHCC, with EZ prints being the "consumer" print lab (in the US). Guess I was wroing. From the features page: So apparently all labs are "pro" labs. I am curious though... If printing from these Pro labs is only a Portfolio/Business level feature, where on earth do the Power and Basic prints come from?

Right from the features page you quoted...



Basic and Power accounts use EZPrints only, Pros (Business & Portfolio) can use all the labs we offer. The one exception is that Loxley is only available on the Business account level at the moment but we are working on that.

Edit: I see what you mean now, we show that EZPrints is a Pro lab. We will fix the wording on that - thanks for pointing it out.

Originally Posted by mbellot I assumed it was Bay and WHCC, with EZ prints being the "consumer" print lab (in the US). Guess I was wroing. From the features page: So apparently all labs are "pro" labs. I am curious though... If printing from these Pro labs is only a Portfolio/Business level feature, where on earth do the Power and Basic prints come from?

Well I agree EZ prints is not PRO...I get better prints from walmart than I ever got from EZ...

Well with the POWER level and basic...YOU have to SELF FULFILL with any lab you want to use...It could be MPIX, Bay, WHCC, Black River, or even DPI here in Wichita ....

Originally Posted by Art Scott Well I agree EZ prints is not PRO...I get better prints from walmart than I ever got from EZ...

Originally Posted by jmphotocraft

so you don't agree that is your right ... well my walmart does better than any I have gotten from EZ....doesn't mean I would use them for anything other than test prints though....that was the 1st thing that upset me with SM....as when I first signed up EZ was the only choice and to me they sucked big time.... jmho ...

Originally Posted by jmphotocraft

Originally Posted by Art Scott so you don't agree that is your right ... well my walmart does better than any I have gotten from EZ....doesn't mean I would use them for anything other than test prints though....that was the 1st thing that upset me with SM....as when I first signed up EZ was the only choice and to me they sucked big time.... jmho ...

EZ may not be Pro, but they are good enough for the majority of what my customers order.

I've only had one customer complain that the prints she ordered were too dark (it was an effing H.S. Orchesis performance, teenagers think dancing in the dark is moody and deep). I ended up re-printing 75% of the order at Costco locally so I could check them before turning over replacements.

But this is all completely beside the point. SM continues to ignore the problem at hand, and in so doing drives more customers away each and every month.

Originally Posted by mbellot [snip] But this is all completely beside the point. SM continues to ignore the problem at hand, and in so doing drives more customers away each and every month.

Every company has customers that aren't profitable, or aren't as profitable as they like - so often losing customers is GOOD for business...

It's just unfortunate that Smugmug has identified the hobbyist Pro as their least valuable customer segment and has chosen to reign in increasing costs by making the proposition for those customers very unattractive.

Good business move if you don't care about reputation.

Cheers - N

Originally Posted by Baldy Hey everyone, I wish I had more to say than we said in the video, but the honest answer is we'd love to offer a less expensive pro account with commerce, but now that we've been in business as long as we have and reached our size, we just don't know how to do it and make it really good. It kills us to say that, but it's honest. You might wonder what time and size has to do with it because I've mentioned mostly storage and engineering costs, and if you want me to answer I can, but I know that what you'd love and we would too is the $150 commerce account back in some form. With the heat we're taking for not having one anymore, we'd dearly love to offer it, it's just at this time we don't know how. I'm sorry I don't have a better answer for you. Baldy

Bump. Still waiting, and you've not replied to any posts in the interim. Remember, you offered, as your quoted post indicates.