Hey everyone,

I have read loads of the first wedding threads (I did my first one on thursday) and I won't ask anyone's opinion on the photos but what I am wondering is how do you get people to buy prints? On the first day they were up (yesterday) I got over 2000 views but have yet to get any purchases. I have adjusted the prices to what I think are reasonable (as cheap as possible)...

Any advice? Thank you all in advance and for all the useful info that is posted on the forums all the time!

Daniel Barnby

First I have a few questions. To it looks like you were a second shooter based on where the couple is looking in many photos. Is this the case? If so what was your arrangement with the primary. If you were the primary what did you deliver to the couple? If you delivered a CD that would be one reason for lack of purchases.

Also, I know you didn't ask, but while you have some image nice captures, the WB and processing are less than what I would like to see. This also has a big bearing on sales.

The next thing is people don't buy a lot of prints anymore, they are happy with seeing them online, or maybe a download. Generally for someone to but a print they need a reason. An emotional attachment to the people or event and a GREAT photo. Something above what all the folks and relatives got with there point and shoots.

While there are limits based on type of image, event versus fine art, and your clientele as long as your pricing is within that certain range price will affect sales the least. Cheap prints rarely translate to more sales.

Sam

I don't seel prints. I sell online images and wedding albums. I don't think folks buy prints much anymore

Originally Posted by Sam First I have a few questions. To it looks like you were a second shooter based on where the couple is looking in many photos. Is this the case? If so what was your arrangement with the primary. If you were the primary what did you deliver to the couple? If you delivered a CD that would be one reason for lack of purchases. Also, I know you didn't ask, but while you have some image nice captures, the WB and processing are less than what I would like to see. This also has a big bearing on sales. The next thing is people don't buy a lot of prints anymore, they are happy with seeing them online, or maybe a download. Generally for someone to but a print they need a reason. An emotional attachment to the people or event and a GREAT photo. Something above what all the folks and relatives got with there point and shoots. While there are limits based on type of image, event versus fine art, and your clientele as long as your pricing is within that certain range price will affect sales the least. Cheap prints rarely translate to more sales. Sam

Hey Sam, I wasn't even a second shooter - literally just there as a guest taking photos. And yeah totally new to the post-processing and I had a lot of issues with the white balance indoors at the reception - there were heaters in there that gave off an awful red glow (even preset white balance made people look ghastly ill) so was a big learning experience.

So far I haven't given the couple anything (they are on the honeymoon and total black out from communications) but I will be giving them the files when they are back - again they were friends who invited me along and let me take some shots :)

If you have any advice on post-processing techniques or how to get people looking nice and healthy under weird lighting conditions please share - I am here to learn :)

All the Best,

Dan

Originally Posted by Qarik I don't seel prints. I sell online images and wedding albums. I don't think folks buy prints much anymore

Really interesting that they don't. Shame about our digital age...

All the Best,

Dan

Hi Dan,
Look at it this way... you weren't the hired pro... you were taking photos of his poses.... AND you are offering them up for sale to the bride and groom. It is kinda like piggybacking on someone else's hard work, organization and planning, and then undercutting his prices. It is a little bit of a professional foul. You might consider removing them from your "for sale" galleries unless you have an agreement with both the bride and groom... and the hired professional. I can guarantee that if you do go pro, that kind of action will not garner you professional recommendations.

That being said: I never mind people taking photos of my poses or during the ceremonies because:
1. I am a professional. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that my photos are way better than anything a guests is going to make. If the guest was THAT good, then they would have been hired, not me. I also have the prime angle and feel free to ask people to move if they are in my way or my shot.
2. I have a post processing workflow that has taken me years to develop. I am consistent.
3. I know how to handle mixed lighting... low lighting...rain... sleet... snow... crabby inlaws...and other tricky situations that always occur in weddings... in camera.

All that to say: Practicing at a wedding is a great idea. You should shoot as much and as often as you can. Just be careful to respect the work of the hired pro, especially if you want others to respect you when you are in his shoes.

Originally Posted by Qarik I don't seel prints. I sell online images and wedding albums. I don't think folks buy prints much anymore

Does nobody hang art on their walls anymore? I think you're just not in the right market, or have not positioned yourself correctly, to sell prints. Print sales is still a HUGE industry in many markets. Senior portraits and family portraits, mostly, but also for weddings and general portraiture too.

I'm not just trying to show you how to be money-grubbing. I'm just saying that I think physical products will NEVER die. And while some clienteles may wish to make their own (mediocre?) prints from costco or wherever, other markets are ready to spend a little extra on a QUALITY physical product...

=Matt=

Originally Posted by dbarnby Hey Sam, I wasn't even a second shooter - literally just there as a guest taking photos. And yeah totally new to the post-processing and I had a lot of issues with the white balance indoors at the reception - there were heaters in there that gave off an awful red glow (even preset white balance made people look ghastly ill) so was a big learning experience. So far I haven't given the couple anything (they are on the honeymoon and total black out from communications) but I will be giving them the files when they are back - again they were friends who invited me along and let me take some shots :) If you have any advice on post-processing techniques or how to get people looking nice and healthy under weird lighting conditions please share - I am here to learn :) All the Best, Dan

Dude, not cool. You shouldn't expect to make a profit as an uncle bob. Honestly, if you're just starting out and shooting the wedding of a friend, (over the shoulder of the paid pro?) ...you should just be giving your images directly to the bride and groom, and maybe sharing a few images online on facebook.

Honestly I would just say, slow down, pace yourself. Try to avoid turning a buck on friends and family, until you're ready to do so in a truly professional capacity, and deliver a quality service and product.

If anything, when I shoot events for friends and family, I set my SmugMug pricing to zero markup and I enable the download of high-res images. Of course I'm not just starting out anymore and I understand that money is money and you gotta make it somewhere, but I would still say this isn't what you should be worrying about, yet...

=Matt=

Originally Posted by dbarnby Hey Sam, I wasn't even a second shooter - literally just there as a guest taking photos. And yeah totally new to the post-processing and I had a lot of issues with the white balance indoors at the reception - there were heaters in there that gave off an awful red glow (even preset white balance made people look ghastly ill) so was a big learning experience. So far I haven't given the couple anything (they are on the honeymoon and total black out from communications) but I will be giving them the files when they are back - again they were friends who invited me along and let me take some shots :) If you have any advice on post-processing techniques or how to get people looking nice and healthy under weird lighting conditions please share - I am here to learn :) All the Best, Dan

And you want to charge them for prints? I am pretty sure they happily invited you to come and take some snapshots if you wanted to. Not to try to make a profit on your invitation, especially if they already hired someone. That is just plain rude.

Thanks for clarifying your status at the wedding.

As others have said, trying to sell images you took while a guest is a real no no.

Use things like this as a learning experience. Your images are not ready for prime time so the emphasis shouldn't be how to sell them but to learn photography and how to create great images.

There isn't any one technique to post processing. It's learning the basics first then building upon that to increase your knowledge and skill to develop your own look. Take a course, find some online tutorials, and practice.

Please be respectful of the photographer who has the responsibility of capturing the couples wedding day, and don't interfere or shadow him or her the whole day.

Sam

Hey all,

Totally understand the big no-no's and that it could be seen as rude - both the bride and groom told me to do it this way, so that if there is a picture they liked then they would be able to give me something for it, and to see what kind of prices it would be at (I am not with-holding their photos!). Otherwise I would not have charged anything and once they get back from the honeymoon they will get all the photos no worries.

Also I didn't get in the way of the pro at all. If anything I was doing my best to help her out, as it was one of her first weddings too. I knew that I wasn't going for any of the posed shots - just went for the in between ones when someone made a joke.

I do understand that you actual pros could find everything I have done offensive but the whole idea was the groom's, to try and help me get a feel for it and start out.

The question was a lot more general really in asking how do you convert views to sales.

Dan

Originally Posted by dbarnby Hey all, Totally understand the big no-no's and that it could be seen as rude - both the bride and groom told me to do it this way, so that if there is a picture they liked then they would be able to give me something for it, and to see what kind of prices it would be at (I am not with-holding their photos!). Otherwise I would not have charged anything and once they get back from the honeymoon they will get all the photos no worries.

Now I am grumpy. First off it's not seen as rude, it is rude, unethical and unprofessional. The Bride and Groom don't understand photography and may be just trying to help you out, but it is still up to you to do the right thing.

Also I can't understand the statement about not with-holding their photos or you wouldn't be charging?

Posting your guest photos for other guests to view and giving them to the couple has nothing to do with posting them for sale.

Also I didn't get in the way of the pro at all. If anything I was doing my best to help her out, as it was one of her first weddings too. I knew that I wasn't going for any of the posed shots - just went for the in between ones when someone made a joke.

How did you help her? Did you carry her gear? Hold reflectors? Round up family and guests? Wasn't going for the posed shots but took images in between the pro's? Sounds like shadowing.

I do understand that you actual pros could find everything I have done offensive but the whole idea was the groom's, to try and help me get a feel for it and start out.

It doesn't matter if it's the groom's idea. It is up to you to know what is right and what is wrong.

The question was a lot more general really in asking how do you convert views to sales. Dan

Most here have a great interest in photography as well as the state of photography as a business. I assumed you wanted to learn and get the advice from those who have more experience than yourself. Your getting good advice. The best thing you could do is listen and learn, not make excuses or rationalize. If all you want is to sell sub par beginners images without learning the rules and ethics of business in general or the profession of photography, I for one have no interest in furthering that effort.

Sam

Originally Posted by Sam Now I am grumpy. First off it's not seen as rude, it is rude, unethical and unprofessional. The Bride and Groom don't understand photography and may be just trying to help you out, but it is still up to you to do the right thing. Also I can't understand the statement about not with-holding their photos or you wouldn't be charging? Posting your guest photos for other guests to view and giving them to the couple has nothing to do with posting them for sale. How did you help her? Did you carry her gear? Hold reflectors? Round up family and guests? Wasn't going for the posed shots but took images in between the pro's? Sounds like shadowing. It doesn't matter if it's the groom's idea. It is up to you to know what is right and what is wrong. Most here have a great interest in photography as well as the state of photography as a business. I assumed you wanted to learn and get the advice from those who have more experience than yourself. Your getting good advice. The best thing you could do is listen and learn, not make excuses or rationalize. If all you want is to sell sub par beginners images without learning the rules and ethics of business in general or the profession of photography, I for one have no interest in furthering that effort. Sam

Hi Sam,

There are many complaints on these forums and others about going totally off topic of the thread. What ever my arrangement is with the couple, if I am trying to sell them, give them away for free or anything else does not come into the question I originally asked. I did not even post a link to the album, did not ask for critique on the photos (not on purpose, just wasn't part of my question).

Everyone who has posted has given me good advice I know and I have taken all of that in and feel very embarrassed because I am now being frowned upon by the community I enjoy being a part of.

The question regarding the other pro and how I helped - for starters, read what I said. She is also starting, has done a couple of weddings, this was my first. How do you qualify a pro? because that is not what she was - we were both friends, one asked specifically to take photos, and I got asked as a guest and then to take photos, for me and them.

But again, all of that is off topic. My question was "I am wondering is how do you get people to buy prints?" and actually stated "I won't ask anyone's opinion on the photos".

Please stay on topic and I am sorry that I have angered you so obviously, but stay on topic, don't think that everyone is trying to cheat everyone and maybe you won't get as angry for no reason.

You will get people to buy prints when you have :
1.- First quality photos
2. -Professional quality photos
3.- Unsurpassed quality photos.
4.-THE WILL TO LISTEN, PRACTICE AND BECOME THE BEST OF THE BEST.
5.- Never get personal, just get professionally inclined.

I have learned this by experience and the advise of all the ones that have posted
and many others that havent replied to you yet, they have skinned me many times, but I appreciate that today, they have tamed my EGO.
By the way, no atempt is made to argue with you or change your ways, that's up for you to evaluate and decide.
Y.

Ps. This is my personal opinion and got nothing to do to with their replies.
Y.

Originally Posted by Yaflyyadie You will get people to buy prints when you have : 1.- First quality photos 2. -Professional quality photos 3.- Unsurpassed quality photos. 4.-THE WILL TO LISTEN, PRACTICE AND BECOME THE BEST OF THE BEST. 5.- Never get personal, just get professionally inclined. I have learned this by experience and the advise of all the ones that have posted and many others that havent replied to you yet, they have skinned me many times, but I appreciate that today, they have tamed my EGO. By the way, no atempt is made to argue with you or change your ways, that's up for you to evaluate and decide. Y. Ps. This is my personal opinion and got nothing to do to with their replies. Y.

how I wish it was true. On daily basis, I see the proof of exact opposite :(

Originally Posted by dbarnby Hi Sam, There are many complaints on these forums and others about going totally off topic of the thread. What ever my arrangement is with the couple, if I am trying to sell them, give them away for free or anything else does not come into the question I originally asked. I did not even post a link to the album, did not ask for critique on the photos (not on purpose, just wasn't part of my question). Everyone who has posted has given me good advice I know and I have taken all of that in and feel very embarrassed because I am now being frowned upon by the community I enjoy being a part of. The question regarding the other pro and how I helped - for starters, read what I said. She is also starting, has done a couple of weddings, this was my first. How do you qualify a pro? because that is not what she was - we were both friends, one asked specifically to take photos, and I got asked as a guest and then to take photos, for me and them. But again, all of that is off topic. My question was "I am wondering is how do you get people to buy prints?" and actually stated "I won't ask anyone's opinion on the photos". Please stay on topic and I am sorry that I have angered you so obviously, but stay on topic, don't think that everyone is trying to cheat everyone and maybe you won't get as angry for no reason.

How you get to sell prints does involve the level of professionalism that you have presented.
If I was another guest at the wedding and you told me your website and said I can buy prints of this wedding. As a potential client, I would notice how you present yourself, how you dress, how well you seem to know your stuff and look at your work or even how you work. Especially your quality of work and style. You are not just selling prints you are selling yourself too.
I can tell you, as far as you presented yourself to us, you have a long ways to go.

Originally Posted by Foques how I wish it was true. On daily basis, I see the proof of exact opposite :(

Nothing we can do, just keep wishing.
Carlos

I think that one reason you cannot sell your work is, everyone else at weddings has a digital camera and are taking the same shots as you.

When you look at stuff in a catalog but don't buy it, why not? Remember these images were taken for the bride and groom according to you, grooms request. They have not looked at the images yet, so you want to know why the other guests aren't buying your images after they look at them? Maybe they are waiting to see the stuff the other photographer puts out there.

I think it is indeed a game-changer if it was the groom's idea. Basically, they're just tipping you or paying you simply for the convenience of printing out a photo for them. It is a thank-you for showing up and snapping a few photos.

As long as the paid pro got the shots they need, and is happy with they pay they received, I see no offense. Sure, if it was done in secret against a veteran pro's contract policies, or if the pro had lost shooting opportunities or something, that'd be different. But this sounds like two beginner wedding photographers just in different learning phases of their career...


Of course the original question was still, "why no print sales?" And to that I say, well, I believe we've sufficiently answered that question. The bottom line is that it's slow going if you want to get into professional photography this way. And you have to keep financial stability and TIME on your side, if you're going to survive. So keep a day job, but don't give up on the photography thing...

:-)

=Matt=