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Old May-04-2012, 02:59 AM
#1
NeilL is offline NeilL OP
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Dawn








This is a woman in a street in my city. The "setting" is part of the very same street, reflections in glass near her which are in her view. Every pixel in this image is a photographic pixel from my camera. What is documented here is the picture the woman communicated to me that her gazing inner eye was showing her of herself in the street.

In my experience it is rare for a street photograph to show an inner psychovisual moment of a found person in the street. To the woman's inner eye at this moment she is Aphrodite in the Mist of the Sun's Rebirth. It is also rare in street photography for people to be seen as their own heroes. Street photography typically exists for the amusement of the viewer, not for the celebration of the subject.

Because the space for street photography at Dgrin is controlled by incestuous reactionary interests, this street photograph is hijacked from the Street&PJ forum to the miscellany forum. What is achieved by that is beyond reasoning.

Neil
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"Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

http://www.behance.net/brosepix

Last edited by NeilL; May-04-2012 at 05:16 AM.
Old May-04-2012, 08:18 AM
#2
lensmole is offline lensmole
Major grins
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My gut reaction to this image is she is suffering from a migraine headache. However you suggest that she is somehow releasing her cares, and troubles of the day, by imagining herself inside a golden bubble that is floating in the clouds back, and forth, and back.and onto the next as it slowly descends down,down, and down,onto the tops of the ocean waves . Only to ride these waves up to the top and down and up, and down until she is rolled onto a white sandy beach and then rolls back and forth and back and up to the sand to be drifted away by the wind eventually meeting a new day beacuse tomorrow never comes . Tomorrow will be today when she arrives, and today will be yesterday and so tomorrow never does arrive for her. Would this be an accurate description of this image according to you ?
Old May-04-2012, 11:28 AM
#3
Earache is offline Earache
Unsharp and Oversaturated
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Like the other images of this style posted by OP, I think it has interest and merit as photo-based, multi-media, computer art.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilL View Post
This is a woman in a street in my city. The "setting" is part of the very same street, reflections in glass near her which are in her view. Every pixel in this image is a photographic pixel from my camera. What is documented here is the picture the woman communicated to me that her gazing inner eye was showing her of herself in the street.

In my experience it is rare for a street photograph to show an inner psychovisual moment of a found person in the street. To the woman's inner eye at this moment she is Aphrodite in the Mist of the Sun's Rebirth. It is also rare in street photography for people to be seen as their own heroes. Street photography typically exists for the amusement of the viewer, not for the celebration of the subject.

Because the space for street photography at Dgrin is controlled by incestuous reactionary interests, this street photograph is hijacked from the Street&PJ forum to the miscellany forum. What is achieved by that is beyond reasoning.Neil
However, this text description is - IMO - narcissistic, pseudo-intellectual, sophistry - in other words, Piffle.
BTW - nice slam on the new Street & PJ Mod - classy.
OBTW - Reactionaries, as a species, have been extinct in the northern hemisphere since about 1972 - subsequently replaced by the "ME Generation".


Quote:
Originally Posted by lensmole View Post
My gut reaction to this image is she is suffering from a migraine headache. However you suggest that she is somehow releasing her cares, and troubles of the day, by imagining herself inside a golden bubble that is floating in the clouds back, and forth, and back.and onto the next as it slowly descends down,down, and down,onto the tops of the ocean waves . Only to ride these waves up to the top and down and up, and down until she is rolled onto a white sandy beach and then rolls back and forth and back and up to the sand to be drifted away by the wind eventually meeting a new day beacuse tomorrow never comes . Tomorrow will be today when she arrives, and today will be yesterday and so tomorrow never does arrive for her. Would this be an accurate description of this image according to you ?
+1 lensmole - this is exactly right! - I know this because I ran into her, Horus, and Ra just this morning at the Sun's Re-Birthing ceremony....


Whew....feel better now....will return to cave.
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Old May-04-2012, 05:45 PM
#4
NeilL is offline NeilL OP
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Thanks to you both for your comments.

Re my text, you do realise I am imagining the woman's fantasy life, don't you? Now your mental life might equate to something like a grocery list, and if so you would be, uhm, different (and disingenuous, considering your avvies!!). Kids spend a lot of mental time in *pretend*, and when people are dressing and grooming, perfuming, presenting themselves to public gaze, etc, it's the same thing. Advertising is proof of how relevant fantasy is to adults, a lot of money is spent and made via the "Horus-Ra" type axis! Your *confection*, lensmole, while obviously meant as a parody of me to get under my skin (a value of yours apparently), is indeed not a parody but an equivalent of what I was doing, ie describing a mental fantasy selfscape.

In my opinion, among the very best photography is that which describes a mental fantasy selfscape. That is why the literal grocery list type of photograph dictated by the delusional cross-legged virgins in Street&PJ (do you count yourselves among them?) is basically destructive - it cuts out many of the quintessential dimensions of human reality. The external appearance rules there, people are objects among objects, emotions are generic because they do not connect to their source in the unique subjective lives of the subjects. The ideal in that forum has become a four legged mutt with something dogish in its mouth staring mindlessly at the photographer! And in black and white! This is *real*?! So is my coffee cup, though at least that is in its real colour!

I think photographs cut their own throat when they cut serving the subject, and instead serve the photographer and the viewer.

A visual gag with a dog? Something like this? -


Louis Faurer Accident 1952

Over there, this would be flicked off into Other Cool Shots because it's "arty" and "experimental", while the snap of the dog is embraced! I think the dog hair is being pulled over your eyes!

Neil
__________________
"Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

http://www.behance.net/brosepix

Last edited by NeilL; May-04-2012 at 07:18 PM.
Old May-04-2012, 09:39 PM
#5
michswiss is offline michswiss
Stuffed Animal
A few points...

This is for me probably the best of the set that you've posted so far. It works reasonably well as a stand alone image but I think there is still some sloppiness in the PP technique. Whether that was intentional or not, only you can say.

While I absolutely do not appreciate your posting style, I think you'll notice that I am advocating for a space where alternative approaches can be presented and discussed critically. I also feel that there definitely is space in the Street forum for experimentation. I have no doubt that the Louis Faurer example you posted would be extremely well received. Why? Because the image contains a perspective and narrative that doesn't require extraneous text.

That you've added the text is your prerogative as the artist. But it should also indicate to you that this series is mixed media, mixed technique. Your text paints the picture that in turn might lead the viewer into an unexpected interpretation of the associated image.

I'm working on multiple series right now that I loosely refer to as a group as "Street Dreams". Very soft, very abstract. Visually quite different from my documentary, street or candid portraiture stuff. But, I've been told by Gallerist that they all still feel stylistically related. It rather surprised me to hear that. I'm showing my Dreamy stuff for feedback mainly to artists and musicians as I appreciate the independent, but structured feedback they can bring. I'm not doing Dreamy to show to other photographers. I'm doing it for me and hopefully a broader audience.

You started posting these in the Street forum. You should have known the perspective that group would have and buffered your expectation on feedback accordingly. Despite all the faffing about on definitions, it's still basically a 'Candid People" group.

One last question. Are you in Tasmania as noted in your DGrin profile or in Melbourne as noted on Behance? If it's Melbourne, let's have a coffee and you can rail at the system to me.
Old May-04-2012, 10:39 PM
#6
NeilL is offline NeilL OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michswiss View Post
A few points...

This is for me probably the best of the set that you've posted so far. It works reasonably well as a stand alone image but I think there is still some sloppiness in the PP technique. Whether that was intentional or not, only you can say.

While I absolutely do not appreciate your posting style, I think you'll notice that I am advocating for a space where alternative approaches can be presented and discussed critically. I also feel that there definitely is space in the Street forum for experimentation. I have no doubt that the Louis Faurer example you posted would be extremely well received. Why? Because the image contains a perspective and narrative that doesn't require extraneous text.

That you've added the text is your prerogative as the artist. But it should also indicate to you that this series is mixed media, mixed technique. Your text paints the picture that in turn might lead the viewer into an unexpected interpretation of the associated image.

I'm working on multiple series right now that I loosely refer to as a group as "Street Dreams". Very soft, very abstract. Visually quite different from my documentary, street or candid portraiture stuff. But, I've been told by Gallerist that they all still feel stylistically related. It rather surprised me to hear that. I'm showing my Dreamy stuff for feedback mainly to artists and musicians as I appreciate the independent, but structured feedback they can bring. I'm not doing Dreamy to show to other photographers. I'm doing it for me and hopefully a broader audience.

You started posting these in the Street forum. You should have known the perspective that group would have and buffered your expectation on feedback accordingly. Despite all the faffing about on definitions, it's still basically a 'Candid People" group.

One last question. Are you in Tasmania as noted in your DGrin profile or in Melbourne as noted on Behance? If it's Melbourne, let's have a coffee and you can rail at the system to me.
Enjoyed reading your comments here! I have of course noticed your contributions to the "cause" in various places, and I thank you!

I am in Hobart. For better or worse, I can't finally decide!

I would happily accept your invitation to a coffee if the stars and planets arrange things sympathetically. But as you point out words are not my forte, so I would take care of the bill, and you could contribute the main part of the conversation. Nor is photography my forte, come to that. Again, as you point out, I do not fit. I am happy with both deficits.

Neil
__________________
"Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Old May-04-2012, 11:22 PM
#7
michswiss is offline michswiss
Stuffed Animal
I'm not fighting any cause. Just noting a gap within the DGrin communities. I doubt it will, nor necessarily should change any thing. Not enough critical mass to warrant the addition. Thankfully, that's what DeviantArt and RedBubble are good for.

One final observation: As far as I'm concerned, the original images didn't belong in the Street forum and it's probably not going to get a good hearing in Cool Shots unless you change how you approach the request. Maybe you should simply accept that DGrin isn't the right place to share this particular series.

PM me if you ever find yourself on the mainland. I know where the good coffee is.
Old May-05-2012, 01:04 AM
#8
RyanS is offline RyanS
Always Learning
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NeilL,

I quite enjoy emotional photography. The pictorialist satisfies a certain internal aesthetic. Shooting the poetry of life is wonderful, and I think that is what you may be trying to accomplish with your work. I hope you'll keep posting. I would like to ask a favor of you though. Would you please consider giving the viewer a chance to experience your work on its own accord before including text? By adding text the viewing process is irreversibly changed.
Old May-05-2012, 01:55 AM
#9
Richard is offline Richard
Mildly bemused
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Nice image, Neil, certainly the best of the latest set from you, IMO. Very good strong diagonals and emotion. I especially like the plane intersecting her arm. I think Jenn may be right that the processing needs some work--there are a number of harsh transitions that lessen the dreamlike quality, IMO. Bad dreams, maybe? Intentional? Dunno, but to me most of the stripes in her top look more like blend-if artifacts than something I would have chosen. YMMV, of course. I would also second (or third) the suggestion that you let the image speak for itself, at least initially. It's the only way you'll get unbiased feedback on the purely visual aspects. Even a title sets expectations, so I would avoid that as well unless you are very sure of yourself. There's always time later to discuss what you had in mind.
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Old May-05-2012, 02:20 AM
#10
Angelo is offline Angelo
Turning frowns upsidedown
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very interesting shot and OCS is the perfect forum for its presentation and discussion. certainly not STREET.
as others said I would've preferred an opportunity to view without the fantasy text
Old May-05-2012, 03:07 PM
#11
damonff is offline damonff
film
Aphrodite?
Old May-05-2012, 03:53 PM
#12
NeilL is offline NeilL OP
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Apart from the first of these four images posted in Street&PJ, where I asked for reactions to a general idea, the next three, including this one, were originally posted only with title. Please check that before criticising me for contaminating the viewer's experience. Any discussion from me only responded to comments from viewers. In the case of this particular image, my comments were added only after it had been hijacked to here, and was not given the opportunity for viewing where I posted it. My comments with the image above are about the Street genre in general more than about how I want the viewer to see this image. I was arguing that the subjective experience of the subject, especially how they imaginatively see themselves in the street, is an overlooked topic in Street (how could it be done? is what my images are partly about), overshadowed by the typical objectification of the subject to serve the kudos of the photographer and amuse the viewer.

As the person who took and processed these images I believe they are closer to Street than anything else and therefore that is where I posted them. I had no axe to grind, and plenty of ready ground axes were immediately chopping into them. I look from a broader perspective and I don't think that invalidates my choice to place them in Street. My perspective should have been accommodated, it would have done no harm, perhaps some good. Others have expressed the same opinion. What has done harm has been the fundamentalist line, sometimes spat out with real nastiness, taken in Street against these images, and the hypocrisy of those taking that line, which has been pointed out by others as well.

Some seem to want to suggest that Dgrin is hokey and hick and that I don't belong. I don't see it like that at all. I don't feel in the least out of place here, let alone superior. There are so many images to be seen here that I admire, and think are way better than mine, especially for the photographic skills, the eye and the enthusiasm of the shooters, and there is such a variety of people and points of view, including people who have a sophisticated understanding of the scope of photography and enjoy an intellectual discussion. I enjoy all kinds of conversations, not only the more rarefied. The history of my posts shows that. I believe there is a place for me here. In fact I have continued to be just myself in the forums in order to enlarge this already democratic space. I encourage everyone to speak with their own authentic voice here, it will greatly promote tolerance and balance, and will add greater value and breadth to Dgrin. Dgrin was the first forum I came to when I took up photography seriously, and it has knocked me into better shape over the years, even though, as I have said, I have kept my own authenticity.

Neil
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"Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

http://www.behance.net/brosepix

Last edited by NeilL; May-05-2012 at 05:48 PM.
Old May-05-2012, 03:54 PM
#13
NeilL is offline NeilL OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michswiss View Post
PM me if you ever find yourself on the mainland. I know where the good coffee is.
You're on!

Neil
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"Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Old May-05-2012, 03:56 PM
#14
NeilL is offline NeilL OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanS View Post
NeilL,

I quite enjoy emotional photography. The pictorialist satisfies a certain internal aesthetic. Shooting the poetry of life is wonderful, and I think that is what you may be trying to accomplish with your work. I hope you'll keep posting. I would like to ask a favor of you though. Would you please consider giving the viewer a chance to experience your work on its own accord before including text? By adding text the viewing process is irreversibly changed.
Thanks for the encouragement, Ryan! And please read my post above.

Neil
__________________
"Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Old May-05-2012, 04:01 PM
#15
NeilL is offline NeilL OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
Nice image, Neil, certainly the best of the latest set from you, IMO. Very good strong diagonals and emotion. I especially like the plane intersecting her arm. I think Jenn may be right that the processing needs some work--there are a number of harsh transitions that lessen the dreamlike quality, IMO. Bad dreams, maybe? Intentional? Dunno, but to me most of the stripes in her top look more like blend-if artifacts than something I would have chosen. YMMV, of course. I would also second (or third) the suggestion that you let the image speak for itself, at least initially. It's the only way you'll get unbiased feedback on the purely visual aspects. Even a title sets expectations, so I would avoid that as well unless you are very sure of yourself. There's always time later to discuss what you had in mind.
Thanks for your detailed crit R! Sometimes I brush out any stuff I don't want, but in general with these I am not doing a cleanly selected insertion. Rather I am playing with patterns, textures, interactions and relationships, and leaving space for randomness (even PP randomness, and in this case, the randomness of something long buried being brought up from the dirt). That's in the tradition of Street, is it not?

Neil
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"Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

http://www.behance.net/brosepix

Last edited by NeilL; May-07-2012 at 02:14 AM.
Old May-05-2012, 04:03 PM
#16
NeilL is offline NeilL OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo View Post
very interesting shot and OCS is the perfect forum for its presentation and discussion. certainly not STREET.
as others said I would've preferred an opportunity to view without the fantasy text
Thanks for kindly welcoming these images Angelo!

We differ on the point of what might be Street.

Neil
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"Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Old May-05-2012, 04:06 PM
#17
NeilL is offline NeilL OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damonff View Post
Aphrodite?
You will have to take that issue up with her!

Neil
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"Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Old May-05-2012, 05:53 PM
#18
NeilL is offline NeilL OP
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...but...
...I did rough'nreadily gather these! Note the gesture of the hand to the hair, the angle of the elbow, and tilt of the head, that seem to be characteristic of this fantasy! (Then there is also the love heart earring.)



http://www.theoi.com/Gallery/S10.16.html


http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=ap...,r:0,s:0,i:138


http://rupeenews.com/2007/12/sex-lif...ogy-aphrodite/


http://sistahtribetheatergroup.blogspot.com.au/



Neil
__________________
"Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

http://www.behance.net/brosepix

Last edited by NeilL; May-05-2012 at 10:24 PM.
Old May-05-2012, 06:38 PM
#19
Angelo is offline Angelo
Turning frowns upsidedown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilL View Post
Thanks for kindly welcoming these images Angelo!

We differ on the point of what might be Street.

Neil
you, me and a host of other members as well as expert definitions of what the "street" genre is and how it is envisioned, captured and presented.

moving forward lets please enjoy the opportunity to view your work of various types in their respective forums and leave debates about what is "street" in that forum

and for the record; moderators do not hijack threads. we have a responsibility to keep the forums tidy and free of attacks, bad language, etc etc

I think the episodes of past postings in street may see more diligence in maintaining calm so let's move on as friends and photo comrades and not hold grudges

.
Old May-05-2012, 08:13 PM
#20
NeilL is offline NeilL OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo View Post
you, me and a host of other members as well as expert definitions of what the "street" genre is and how it is envisioned, captured and presented.

moving forward lets please enjoy the opportunity to view your work of various types in their respective forums and leave debates about what is "street" in that forum

and for the record; moderators do not hijack threads. we have a responsibility to keep the forums tidy and free of attacks, bad language, etc etc

I think the episodes of past postings in street may see more diligence in maintaining calm so let's move on as friends and photo comrades and not hold grudges

.
Yes. I am here for the fun, believe me!

If mob rule had prevailed our culture would not have had anything beyond hand stencilling on cave walls! Certainly nothing like what was paid $200 million for at Sotheby's just the other day.

As I say, let's relax, let's have fun, let's enjoy what is not quite "correct", what plays with preconceptions and habits of perception...not have gang warfare.

I haven't told anyone at Dgrin where they can go. Maybe I can act as a role model!

LOL!



Peace.

Neil
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"Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

http://www.behance.net/brosepix
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