• Gear
  • Shots
  • Photo Craft
  • Video
  • Wide Angle
  • Support
  • New Stuff
  • More
Gear Cameras DPP Moire Reduction Hurts 5D3 IQ

Need some help with your New SmugMug Site?

Dgrin Challenges

They're back! Our latest series of Dgrin Challenges, the OOYCZ Challenges (Out of Your Comfort Zone), is a series of challenges to help you improve your photography by stepping out of your comfort zone and trying something new. Our challenge leader says "Consider it like a photography class with no diplomas.". Get started with OOYCZ by reading the Challenge Guide.

Past DSS Challenge Winners, DSS Challenge Rules, and other important DSS Challenge information is here.

Looking for a little challenge? The Dgrin Mini-Challenges are a great way to challenge yourself. Take a moment to look through past winners and find the current Mini Challenge here.

From Around the Net

Enjoy a few of our favorite articles from around the 'net. If you have something you think we should see, post it here and we'll have a look.

Journeys

Landscapes

Sports

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Mar-23-2012, 08:44 AM
#1
jmphotocraft is offline jmphotocraft OP
GWC for hire
jmphotocraft's Avatar
DPP Moire Reduction Hurts 5D3 IQ
Something is amiss here. I was out shooting a town skyline scene with my 5D2 and 5D3 to do a little comparison. Nothing special, just a test shot. Here is the scene:



When I saw the results I became very nervous that something was wrong with my 5D3 or that I was just going to have to live with a downgrade in ultimate IQ in exchange for the AF and fps and high ISO.

Apparently, the new DPP does not apply the moire reduction to 5D2 files (or it does so very differently), and what it does to 5D3 files is not good. You can turn this off in DPP Preferences by selecting "High Speed", but this also turns of noise reduction.

Here are 100% crops of the 5D3 image illustrating the difference:

Moire Reduction off:


Moire Reduction on:


The image with the MR off looks like the 5D2 image I took. This was shot at ISO 100, so there would be no NR anyway.

It is even detectable at 50% view:

off:


on:


Hopefully Canon will address this in the next patch of DPP. Maybe they can provide a way to turn MR off but leave NR on? Or just fix the darn thing altogether!

Above shots taken with 70-200/2.8II at f/8.
__________________
-Jack

"I bought a new camera, it's very advanced. You don't even need it." - Steven Wright

Last edited by jmphotocraft; Mar-23-2012 at 10:29 AM.
Old Mar-23-2012, 12:32 PM
#2
Qarik is offline Qarik
Krazy Korean
Qarik's Avatar
wow..you lose a lot of resolution, but I don't the point in turning on MR when MR is not an issue anyway?
__________________
D700, D600
14-24 24-70 70-200mm (vr2)
85 and 50 1.4
45 PC and sb910 x2
http://www.danielkimphotography.com
Old Mar-23-2012, 01:10 PM
#3
jmphotocraft is offline jmphotocraft OP
GWC for hire
jmphotocraft's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qarik View Post
wow..you lose a lot of resolution, but I don't the point in turning on MR when MR is not an issue anyway?
The problem in DPP is that in order to have NR, MR must also be on. I'm going to contact Canon about this.
__________________
-Jack

"I bought a new camera, it's very advanced. You don't even need it." - Steven Wright
Old Mar-23-2012, 05:44 PM
#4
ari1982 is offline ari1982
Beginner grinner
I am observing the same issue. I have contacted CPS.
Old Mar-23-2012, 08:13 PM
#5
David_S85 is online now David_S85
Spotter of DGrin Forum Oddities & Spam
David_S85's Avatar
That dialog was different just one version ago.
__________________
Moderator of DGrin Forum Support & Digital Darkroom. My Smugmug
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
Old Mar-24-2012, 10:59 PM
#6
David_S85 is online now David_S85
Spotter of DGrin Forum Oddities & Spam
David_S85's Avatar
This.

Aw, nuts. Canon, you guys just didn't make the time to review or use your own software before release? Almost unforgivable. Please fix DPP viewing and 16-bit TIFF output ASAP.
__________________
Moderator of DGrin Forum Support & Digital Darkroom. My Smugmug
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
Old Mar-25-2012, 12:09 AM
#7
Matthew Saville is offline Matthew Saville
Wedding Photographer
Matthew Saville's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_S85 View Post
This.

Aw, nuts. Canon, you guys just didn't make the time to review or use your own software before release? Almost unforgivable. Please fix DPP viewing and 16-bit TIFF output ASAP.
As usual, Canon rushes to market with a product that winds up needing a firmware / software update. Nothing new! Still an amazing camera and, barring anything as catastrophic as the 5D mk1 mirror LOL, ...this is still the best damn camera Canon has ever made in almost every respect, at any price...

=Matt=
__________________
My first thought is always of light. Galen Rowell
My Personal Portfolio My Latest Work
Moderator of the Dgrin Weddings Forum
Old Mar-25-2012, 07:13 PM
#8
David_S85 is online now David_S85
Spotter of DGrin Forum Oddities & Spam
David_S85's Avatar
Oh yes, I agree that the cam is oustanding. Just that I rely on DPP almost 100% for post. I trust the software problems will be all worked out by the time I pull the trigger.
__________________
Moderator of DGrin Forum Support & Digital Darkroom. My Smugmug
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
Old Apr-05-2012, 03:51 PM
#9
David_S85 is online now David_S85
Spotter of DGrin Forum Oddities & Spam
David_S85's Avatar
An update to the story, as Canon realizes their DPP for the mkIII is b0rked, and will fix it by mid-April.
__________________
Moderator of DGrin Forum Support & Digital Darkroom. My Smugmug
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
Old Apr-06-2012, 02:17 AM
#10
chrisjohnson is offline chrisjohnson
Major grins
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qarik View Post
wow..you lose a lot of resolution, but I don't the point in turning on MR when MR is not an issue anyway?
Sounds right to me. With the off setting you seem to get a good result in what, with my equipment, would be an impossible shot. Why switch MR on when you can expect a reduction in IQ?

Still I am glad you pros bang on about this to Canon. Like any new camera we can expect some updates as time goes by. At this price I expect perfection :)
Old Apr-19-2012, 07:20 PM
#11
David_S85 is online now David_S85
Spotter of DGrin Forum Oddities & Spam
David_S85's Avatar
New DPP version is available now
Canon has today updated their DPP with the promised corrections to allow .CR2 files made with the 5D3 to display properly, and hopefully sharper than they were a month ago (disclosure: I don't yet have a 5D3 and can't test this).

The preferences dialog has also changed back to allow the same configurations as in previous versions.

DPP display and editing preferences, a month ago, introduced with 5D3, in the box.



newest DPP, April 19, 2012, v.3.11.26, available for download now at Canon USA site.


I have downloaded it, and can report that the DLO (Digital Lens Optimization) feature works wonders on two of my four lenses that are supported in this package. My 10-22 EF-S benefits the most. The .CR2 file sizes will about double when using it, and that's a bummer. I will only use it on my selected keeper images because of that.
__________________
Moderator of DGrin Forum Support & Digital Darkroom. My Smugmug
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
Old Apr-24-2012, 10:24 AM
#12
jmphotocraft is offline jmphotocraft OP
GWC for hire
jmphotocraft's Avatar
3.11.26 good to go
I can confirm they've fixed it.

5D3 100% crops, reprocessed in DPP 3.11.26:

moire reduction ON:


OFF:


The "off" picture is 179 KB larger, but I don't think I see any difference.
__________________
-Jack

"I bought a new camera, it's very advanced. You don't even need it." - Steven Wright
Old Apr-24-2012, 05:26 PM
#13
David_S85 is online now David_S85
Spotter of DGrin Forum Oddities & Spam
David_S85's Avatar
Jack, have you tried the DLO feature yet?
__________________
Moderator of DGrin Forum Support & Digital Darkroom. My Smugmug
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
Old Apr-25-2012, 05:59 AM
#14
jmphotocraft is offline jmphotocraft OP
GWC for hire
jmphotocraft's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_S85 View Post
Jack, have you tried the DLO feature yet?
My lenses are good so I don't worry about it too much. I think it makes a bigger difference for older and/or cheaper lenses. At least that's what Sir Ken Rockwell says. DPP applies DLO by default for all supported lenses, which mine are. It seems to work well yet unobtrusively. It doesn't seem like a game changer for me, but I am not a pixel peeper either.

I think it works in DPP for all Canon DSLRs though, so I think all you have to do to try it for yourself is download and install the latest DPP.
__________________
-Jack

"I bought a new camera, it's very advanced. You don't even need it." - Steven Wright
Old Apr-25-2012, 09:49 PM
#15
David_S85 is online now David_S85
Spotter of DGrin Forum Oddities & Spam
David_S85's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmphotocraft View Post
My lenses are good so I don't worry about it too much. I think it makes a bigger difference for older and/or cheaper lenses. At least that's what Sir Ken Rockwell says. DPP applies DLO by default for all supported lenses, which mine are. It seems to work well yet unobtrusively. It doesn't seem like a game changer for me, but I am not a pixel peeper either.

I think it works in DPP for all Canon DSLRs though, so I think all you have to do to try it for yourself is download and install the latest DPP.
DLO is amazing, but it doesn't work by default. You need to manually run it. You might be thinking instead of the feature where some newer cams, like the 7D, have a lens distortion, aberrations and anti-vignetting feature (for supported Canon lenses) that you can choose to toggle in the cam, and thus, is supported by DPP as the image is opened in DPP. DLO is a new beast altogether.

Each of the supported lenses must have the user download each lens data package (they don't ship with DPP). Once installed, the corrections are available with the DLO tab if one wants. I have only two lenses that are supported so far, the 70-200 f/4 L IS and the EF-s 10-22. Both are great lenses, but when DLO is run, the result is nothing less than if one waved a 14-24G through the images. Really, it is that good. Corners are magically sharper. I only use it on keeper images as the CR2 file doubles in size. But what we've found is that once a final TIFF or JPEG is created from the RAW, you can reverse out the DLO image data from the file and it shrinks back to the original big size it began as.
__________________
Moderator of DGrin Forum Support & Digital Darkroom. My Smugmug
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
Old Apr-26-2012, 04:56 AM
#16
jmphotocraft is offline jmphotocraft OP
GWC for hire
jmphotocraft's Avatar
Oh snap... I didn't realize that. Yeah I was thinking it was just the lens corrections already in DPP. I have a new toy!! Test results coming soon...
__________________
-Jack

"I bought a new camera, it's very advanced. You don't even need it." - Steven Wright
Old Apr-26-2012, 03:40 PM
#17
David_S85 is online now David_S85
Spotter of DGrin Forum Oddities & Spam
David_S85's Avatar
So as you do the testing, it has been suggested to first set sharpening in DPP to zero, then run the DLO (I've used 40-70 for strength, 50 is default and that's a good place to start) followed by the normal DPP lens corrections second. You'll notice one of the four operations in the normal lens corrections is now missing, because DLO has taken care of one of them for you, leaving light fall-off and other corrections up to you. Then do all the other stuff DPP offers, including sharpening. I hear that the III will need more than normal sharpening no matter what. I don't have one, but that's what I've read.

Once you've saved the JPEG or TIFF from the final RAW image, you can optionally go back into the DLO module and uncheck the action and re-save, thus shrinking the RAW file back down to semi-managable size.

Caveats: DLO will only work on full sized CR2 files. RAW file sizes double unless you reverse the process. The list of lenses supported is a small sample of Canon's offerings. Luckily, DLO is backward compatible back to the 30D days - a big bonus. DPP and DLO is free. Ver. 3.11.26 is the current version.
__________________
Moderator of DGrin Forum Support & Digital Darkroom. My Smugmug
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
Tell The World!  
Similar Threads Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lightroom 3 Noise reduction question bgarland Finishing School 13 Jan-30-2011 02:12 PM
Photoshop Action Set To Help With Noise Reduction gmitchel850 Finishing School 0 Oct-11-2009 09:12 AM
noise reduction in workflow paddler4 Finishing School 10 Jun-04-2009 05:19 PM
Storing noise reduction in DNG and Preview files? Rhuarc Finishing School 7 Apr-17-2009 03:01 PM
20D Noise Reduction Questions Richard Cameras 21 Jun-25-2006 10:30 AM


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump