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Old Apr-14-2012, 10:05 AM
#1
TonyCooper is offline TonyCooper OP
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As long as we're on the subject...
I'll take a chance on this being an inappropriate post for this
group, but camera clubs and judging has been discussed
recently.

I entered this photo in my cc's monthly competition. It didn't
fare well. The score was 74 out of 100. (The lowest score
I've ever seen given (not to me) was in the low 60s, and
a score in the low 90s usually gets first place. Each of the
three judges gives up to 33 1/3 points.)

Below the image, I'll relate the judge's comments. (A wedding/portrait
professional photographer)




We are required to give each image a title. My title was "The
Boxer". The comments, paraphrased as best I remember them,
were:

I thought I'd see a photograph of a boxer, but this isn't someone
boxing.

That red thing on the right should not have been included if this
is a photograph of a person. It draws the eye to it, and detracts.

The background is too cluttered.

When you photograph a person, make the person the central
point of the image. Get tight.

The person isn't doing anything that makes him interesting.

End of comments. I thought I'd get rapped on the face in
the poster between the heavy bag and the boxer, but it
wasn't brought up. (Yes, the subject is a professional
boxer)

I didn't expect a particularly high grade because I know
this isn't the type of photo that does well in this group.

How would you rate the image and the comments?
__________________
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http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/
Old Apr-14-2012, 10:28 AM
#2
Demian is offline Demian
Major grins
Oooooohmygawd, I hate my laptop. Typed the whole thing and then exited the page. Ugh. Anyways, those comments are hilariously awful. "That red thing"? Rofl

This speed bag makes this photo work. A shot of simply a reflection is usually a bad use of a mirror, IMO. The cluttered background works too, as it contrasts with the sparsity of the area outside the reflection.

The "needs tight crop" and "not doing anything interesting" is simply... bad? If he really wants something that cliche, no need to shoot it: "boxer punching bag" has about 2,590,000 results on google images.

Yeah, the poster is kind of distracting. I thought it was another guy at first :X A little unfortunate, but besides that I like the picture. Sorry about the lame judge.
Old Apr-14-2012, 10:40 AM
#3
RSL is offline RSL
Streeter
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It's a reasonably good shot, Tony. I don't know how I'd rate it, since I can't see the competition, and therefore don't know what the club's standards are. A few years ago I judged an annual contest down the road in Clermont. In fact, I judged it two years in a row. A couple weeks before the first contest I gave a lecture to the group on the history of photography. I explained to them that I never enter juried shows because the judge always is insane. I still feel that way, and I suspect they do too.
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Russ Lewis
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Old Apr-14-2012, 11:51 AM
#4
torags is offline torags
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Is it too late to join a different club?
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Old Apr-14-2012, 12:34 PM
#5
TonyCooper is offline TonyCooper OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torags View Post
Is it too late to join a different club?
Ahhh, c'mon. It's a good club and the judging is fair. It's just that
I don't normally shoot what the majority of the members shoot.

If I would jump up to the Wildlife forum and post this image there,
I wouldn't expect it to be interesting to them. Yet, many of the
images submitted in the monthly competitions at my cc would be
well accepted and receive plaudits.
__________________
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/
Old Apr-14-2012, 01:06 PM
#6
torags is offline torags
Major grins
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyCooper View Post
Ahhh, c'mon. It's a good club and the judging is fair. It's just that
I don't normally shoot what the majority of the members shoot.

If I would jump up to the Wildlife forum and post this image there,
I wouldn't expect it to be interesting to them. Yet, many of the
images submitted in the monthly competitions at my cc would be
well accepted and receive plaudits.
Good point.

It's just that your Orlando is showing...
__________________
Rags
Old Apr-14-2012, 03:03 PM
#7
damonff is offline damonff
film
I think it's cool.
Old Apr-14-2012, 05:03 PM
#8
black mamba is offline black mamba
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I remember, Tony, when you first posted this picture...or a variation of it...a little while back. I liked it a lot then and I still like it a lot. You seem to have a very realistic / pragmatic perception of how things work at your club, relative to this whole judging issue. I think every club has its own idiosyncrasies you have to acknowledge.

Tom
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Old Apr-14-2012, 05:10 PM
#9
TonyCooper is offline TonyCooper OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black mamba View Post
I remember, Tony, when you first posted this picture...or a variation of it...a little while back. I liked it a lot then and I still like it a lot. You seem to have a very realistic / pragmatic perception of how things work at your club, relative to this whole judging issue. I think every club has its own idiosyncrasies you have to acknowledge.

Tom
In the original, there was part of a duffle bag and a weight in the lower
left corner. People noticed them as a distraction, so I took them out.
__________________
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http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/
Old Apr-15-2012, 05:57 AM
#10
Yaflyyadie is offline Yaflyyadie
Major grins
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Tony:
Visual perception varies from one person to another.
What is good to me, might be not as good or pleasant to others.
Your photography style is personal, such as mine and others, that will never hinder the quality and meaning of your picture to you and the ones that feel alike.
Everything is subjective to the eye of the beholder and this apply to all of us.
There should be always a way to make things better, but, if you are comfortable with your composition, if the story to tell is present, then I will say, there is nothing to change.
I simply like it as is.
JMHO
Y.

Last edited by Yaflyyadie; Apr-15-2012 at 06:09 PM.
Old Apr-15-2012, 09:50 AM
#11
Art Scott is offline Art Scott
Have PASSPORT will TRAVEL
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It is a good pic...but maybe the title was a not so good a choice...my only problem is his ego is poking out over his left shoulder...
Your camera club like so many all over do not leave their egos and preconceptions out of the judging ... ... ... ... they simply did not
judge on merit or quality of image or even maybe category properly .... ... ... now take this lesson and go make images that will be
judged well by your club contemporaries ... ... ... ...if that is truly what you want and need or go create images from your heart and just shrug it off when they give unfounded biased opinions...
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Old Apr-15-2012, 10:07 AM
#12
scritch is offline scritch
Grinnifier
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I like many things about this shot
My visceral reaction to this photo is clear. I don't find it confusing, I like the setup, perspective, the depth, the detritus/wear (the grime behind the torn red bag; the soot on the outlet, etc.). I find it well-composed, and--without thinking too much about it--I simply like it. I like the punch of red (pun intended) in the foreground. I like the expression, the fatigue that isn't static, just taking a break and regrouping.

I like. Thanks for posting it.
Old Apr-15-2012, 11:14 AM
#13
Bend The Light is offline Bend The Light
Bend The Light
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I find judges to be very interesting in just how wrong they can be...or how biased by their own preconceptions of a good photo.

I have witnessed a judge saying a photo of a marine worm was all fuzzy and looked like it was taken underwater!
I had another judge look at one of my pictures and wonder how an owl could be in focus at the same time as a signpost...he suspected photoshop trickery, when in fact the owl had just taken off from the sign and was therefore in the same focal plane.

So, judges are human, and sometimes can be considered strange or even a bit "away with the fairies" :)

To your image, I like it. it takes time to take it all in, which may or may not have been a problem for the judge. But once the scene is recognised, it is very good, and it is clear from the "red thing" that he is a boxer, and that just because he's having a rest doesn't detract from that. Only think I would do is remove the part of the support for the punchbag on the left...I didn't notice the poster/head particularly, until someone mentioned it. :)
Old Apr-16-2012, 12:46 PM
#14
bdcolen is offline bdcolen
CaptureReality
bdcolen's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyCooper View Post
I'll take a chance on this being an inappropriate post for this
group, but camera clubs and judging has been discussed
recently.

I entered this photo in my cc's monthly competition. It didn't
fare well. The score was 74 out of 100. (The lowest score
I've ever seen given (not to me) was in the low 60s, and
a score in the low 90s usually gets first place. Each of the
three judges gives up to 33 1/3 points.)

Below the image, I'll relate the judge's comments. (A wedding/portrait
professional photographer)

We are required to give each image a title. My title was "The
Boxer". The comments, paraphrased as best I remember them,
were:

I thought I'd see a photograph of a boxer, but this isn't someone
boxing.

That red thing on the right should not have been included if this
is a photograph of a person. It draws the eye to it, and detracts.

The background is too cluttered.

When you photograph a person, make the person the central
point of the image. Get tight.

The person isn't doing anything that makes him interesting.

End of comments. I thought I'd get rapped on the face in
the poster between the heavy bag and the boxer, but it
wasn't brought up. (Yes, the subject is a professional
boxer)

I didn't expect a particularly high grade because I know
this isn't the type of photo that does well in this group.

How would you rate the image and the comments?
To be honest, this was never my favorite photo - but the comments are inane - especially the comment about the title. As I said in response to your last post about the camera club judging, in which you described the wildlife photographer's judging of the street photo - this is my problem with (the vast majority of) camera clubs.

And forgive my maiming of the image, but...allow me to suggest this. I wish the speedbag wasn't red, so...
Name:  The-Boxer-X2.jpg
Views: 175
Size:  131.2 KB
__________________
bd@bdcolenphoto.com
--------------------------------------------
"He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan

"The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
Old Apr-16-2012, 01:02 PM
#15
lizzard_nyc is offline lizzard_nyc
Zygote Grinner
lizzard_nyc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdcolen View Post
To be honest, this was never my favorite photo - but the comments are inane - especially the comment about the title. As I said in response to your last post about the camera club judging, in which you described the wildlife photographer's judging of the street photo - this is my problem with (the vast majority of) camera clubs.

And forgive my maiming of the image, but...allow me to suggest this. I wish the speedbag wasn't red, so...
Attachment 35886

Holy cow!
The power of a good black and white conversion.
__________________
Liz A.
_________
Old Apr-16-2012, 01:08 PM
#16
torags is offline torags
Major grins
+1
__________________
Rags
Old Apr-16-2012, 04:16 PM
#17
Qarik is offline Qarik
Krazy Korean
Qarik's Avatar
I nwas just about to suggest BW with more gritty process. And yeah..if I saw title with "boxer" in it..i would expect to see some guy with boxing gloves or wrap or something. the guy in the mirror is too ambiguous.
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Old Apr-17-2012, 08:32 AM
#18
bdcolen is offline bdcolen
CaptureReality
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qarik View Post
I nwas just about to suggest BW with more gritty process. And yeah..if I saw title with "boxer" in it..i would expect to see some guy with boxing gloves or wrap or something. the guy in the mirror is too ambiguous.
Sorry - But there is absolutely nothing ambiguous about the subject of this photo.
__________________
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--------------------------------------------
"He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan

"The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
Old Apr-17-2012, 10:37 AM
#19
Demian is offline Demian
Major grins
Mmmm, I love the B&W treatment. I think it's mainly because I associate boxing with B&W films and the Rocky Marciano era... but I dunno if anything else thinks that way :p
Old Apr-17-2012, 01:44 PM
#20
Qarik is offline Qarik
Krazy Korean
Qarik's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdcolen View Post
Sorry - But there is absolutely nothing ambiguous about the subject of this photo.
okay..so tell me about the guy. what's he doing, thinking? I don't think you can claim to know. I like the shot but it's mistitled..more to the point it should not have a title at all.
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